Armageddon for the Dilgar

[TenaciousB]

When did the Drakh get wiped out of the Galaxy? The point is, pander pander pander to the EA and ISA. I actually agree the Dilgar are dead, they never reached this level, but the drakh have in the RPG, and Really, is it part of Playtester training to be so damn arsey with everyone. I notice none of the playtesters fleets ever gets a good kick in the groin that others do from time to time, and it has to be said, this kind of response is exactly what makes a lot of players think the playtesters are a bunch of jumped up over exciteable arseholes who don't really give a crap.

Couldn't have put it better myself, Hiff.

But surely someone can think of a nice way of bringing the Dilgar into the Armageddon era? I'm not even talking about an Armageddon-level ship, but maybe a few variants or something to keep the Dilgar players playing the game.

Hell, timetravel has been mentioned in the show, why not have some fluff to bring the Dilgar back like that? Or cloning? Or Draal? Someone just think of something to bring them back, for feck's sake! :lol:

 

[B_Steele]

Now now now guys...let's all be civil.

That being said, I'll see what I can do in my spare time (HA! Right!) to draw up a couple of Dilgar/Drakh Armageddon-esque thingamabobs for Signs and Portents.

But I'm not promising anything unless Matthew tells me to.

Cheers all,
Bry

 

[thePirv]

The Drakh and Dilgar have been out for less than a year. It is Mongoose's stated policy to produce one major update a year.

Just because the fleet's havn't even been out for a year is no reason to not keep them up to date with EVERY other race in the game. And WHY can't that one MAJOR update a year also cater to recent non-major releases?

No meaning, other than rules and the chance to be able to look at your enemy's ships and choose an appropriate strategy.

New rules i already know. I don't need Armageddon to tell me the new Priority breakdown which i've already memorised, the new stealth rules, which were in S&P and the new fighter rules which have been heavily talked about on the forum.
And as for seeing my enemy's ships, well, i have a simple way to do that, I simpy ask to see their ship stats before the game. It won't take me long to know the capabilities of most/all of the new ships. AS for devising strategies before the battle, i never bother since plans NEVER survive contact with the enemy.


At least Mongoose Steele is listening to the players who got the shaft and at least giving us the chance for keeping up with the jonses.

 

[Greg Smith]

New rules i already know. I don't need Armageddon to tell me the new Priority breakdown which i've already memorised, the new stealth rules, which were in S&P and the new fighter rules which have been heavily talked about on the forum.
And as for seeing my enemy's ships, well, i have a simple way to do that, I simpy ask to see their ship stats before the game. It won't take me long to know the capabilities of most/all of the new ships. AS for devising strategies before the battle, i never bother since plans NEVER survive contact with the enemy.

So if you don't need to buy it, why are you complaining about having to buy it?

I wanna play in a tournament. This means i need ... Armageddon . That means i have to buy 2 books that have NO meaning to me,

 

[thePirv]

I do believe that in all Tournament packs and things, it says you MUST HAVE a copy of the original or revised edition, a copy of SFOS, and now it will more than likely include a copy of Armageddon. In fact, from the ITF2 pdf...

You Will Need
You must bring the following items with you on the day of the tournament.
5 Ticket for entry to the tournament
5 Books One and Two from the A Call to Arms box set, Sky Full of Stars, plus any relevant rules updates
5 Your fleet, either as miniatures or counters (AoG Fleet Action miniatures are acceptable)
5 Two copies of your Fleet Roster
5 This tournament pack
5 The Armageddon PDF
5 Pen, paper and dice
5 Tape Measure
5 Some money for food, drink and a few new A Call to Arms goodies from our office store!

Which would seem to imply that Arma will become compulsory

I realise that i'll probably never be kicked from a tourney for not having Armageddon, but it just seems to me that i'm being given the shaft because i am expected to buy a book which has no real relevance to my fleet, and also, while majority of players are getting rules and new ships for their fleets, myself and any other Drakh/Dilgar only players are being asked to pay the same cash for less overall useful content.

 

[blackphoenix]

They probably just list the armageddon book as a requirement so if someone you're facing is using them you can verify stats without question.

This way they don't have to force people to share their books with others.

 

[Greg Smith]

I will grant that tournaments will probably say that Armageddon & SFoS are required. I will say that no-one has ever checked up on people having rule books in any tourney I've played.

I will point out most races get only one or two new ships in Armageddon. The Brakiri and Abbai only get one between them. I could probably understand your complaints if you had bought Armageddon and was disappointed with lack of new content (a big portion of the book is devoted to EA, Shadow and Vorlon ships). Would a single new Drakh ship have made it worthwhile buying a £15 book?

 

[TenaciousB]

Would a single new Drakh ship have made it worthwhile buying a £15 book?

To be honest, Greg, yes it probably would have.

It's no fun, sitting on the sidelines, watching all the other races get new things. To be even acknowledged in Armageddon would have been nice. I know the Dilgar get to use their pentacon, even when it falls below 4 ships, but to be honest, that's not much of a "gift", seeing as all other races can now have up to 6 ships in a squadron, a nice wee rule that was exclusively Dilgar in the past.

I reckon a lot of players think that the playtesters are forgetting about us, the loyal players who have stuck with the game even through some of the other past bad calls, and are simply making decisions to appease their other playtester friends. If this keeps up, those neglected players will just have to speak with their wallets, and those elite few can meddle all they want with the game - they'll be the only ones playing it.

 

[thePirv]

Would a single new Drakh ship have made it worthwhile buying a £15 book?

Yes. £15 isn't much, but it stings a lot more when you don't get the same benefit as other players. Any non Dilgar/Drakh players buying this book get the new rules, the ability to look at opponents new ships AND get a new ship of their own or at the very least a major overhaul of their existing fleet. Drakh get NOTHING and Dilgar get a minor change to how a Pentacon functions, which is lumped in because there's been a change to the general formations rule.
Dilgar and Drakh players are paying the same cost for two thirds the benefit that the rest of the community get.
I don't think it unreasonable to expect the same kind of benefits that just about every other player gets from this book. Would it really have been a stretch to include 2 more ships, one Drakh and one Dilgar, just to allow the entire community an equal benefit from this book?
It would've required an extra couple of pages, and a touch more playtesting, neither of which would increase the cost much, if at all. And it would've prevented some players from feeling shunned by the designers.

I love ACTA. In fact, it's the only mini's game i play any more. I played for over a year before the Drakh came out, owning both the Revised edition boxset and the SFOS pdf. I didn't buy any minis during this period because i couldn't get totally happy with any one race.
Then the Drakh came out. I got the Drakh book because i liked the very concept of the Drakh based on the few viewings in the show. I wasn't disappoined when i got the book, so i immediately ordered the fleet box. I have since gotten an extra 6 light and 6 heavy raiders... which isn't a small outlay in such a short space of time. And i'm sure that there's several Drakh/Dilgar players that have spent a lot more than i have.
So considering that we contribute cash to the company, why can't the company even give us the common courtesy of including us with the rest of the community?

 

[Greg Smith]

It's no fun, sitting on the sidelines, watching all the other races get new things. To be even acknowledged in Armageddon would have been nice.

Okay. I didn't realise that there were people who stuck firmly to one fleet.

I reckon a lot of players think that the playtesters are forgetting about us, the loyal players who have stuck with the game even through some of the other past bad calls, and are simply making decisions to appease their other playtester friends. If this keeps up, those neglected players will just have to speak with their wallets, and those elite few can meddle all they want with the game - they'll be the only ones playing it.

I think you overestimate the power of the playtesters! We do not decide what goes into a book, we can only test things out and make suggestions to the game designers.

 

[Greg Smith]

Just an additional thought, are you aware there is the Drakh attack on Earth scenario in Armageddon? It may not be the new ships you want, but it is a great big scenario featuring the Drakh.

 

[thePirv]

I will occasionally play another fleet just for a bit of a change or to test a theory, but for the most part I will play Drakh because i simply love the fleet.

And while having a Drakh attack on Earth Scenario in Armageddon (which admittedly is news to me) is better than a kick in the teeth, it still feels like the VERY short end of the stick.

And my gripe isn't just about the Drakh, but also the Dilgar. A small but not insignificant part of the community have been deliberately left out of the fun, and i for one don't think that this is reasonable treatment considering that we put money into the company, and would put more money in we got the same kind of support that everybody else gets.

 

[Greg Smith]

And my gripe isn't just about the Drakh, but also the Dilgar. A small but not insignificant part of the community have been deliberately left out of the fun, and i for one don't think that this is reasonable treatment considering that we put money into the company, and would put more money in we got the same kind of support that everybody else gets.

I can't argue with that. All I can suggest is that a politely worded email to msprange@mongoosepublishing.com will have far more effect than debating it with me. The second edition is in development as we speak and dropping Matthew a note will perhaps ensure the Drakh and Dilgar don't miss out on new stuff in that.

 

[thePirv]

Well, email sent to Matt. It reads...


Hi Matt.

I'm writing in response to Gregg Smith's suggestion on the forums (Armageddon for Dilgar thread Page 4) that i should get in contact with you.

I was just wondering if you could explain the decision to leave the Drakh and Dilgar out of the forthcoming Armageddon book. I realise that neither of these races is a major component of the ACTA game, but i still feel that the people who play these races have been unfairly left out.

As a result, it means that players of these races must wait at least a year before we will be brought into line with the other races in the game. What is the point in this.

I feel that Mongoose Publishing has let both myself and several other members of the ACTA community down in not supporting these newly released races.

I look forward to a response.
Yours Sincerely,
Peter Irvine.


Now i realise that this isn't what you suggested Gregg, but i felt this to be more pertinent than ensuring that the Drakh and Dilgar get another look in in a years time when theyt've been unjustly ignored in Armageddon.

 

[thePirv]

OK, i realise i'm double posting, but screw it.

Reply from Matt...



I was just wondering if you could explain the decision to leave the Drakh and Dilgar out of the forthcoming Armageddon book. I realise that neither of these races is a major component of the ACTA game, but i still feel that the people who play these races have been unfairly left out.


Hi there,

It is precisely because they are new races that they were not included - we prefer for new fleets to have time to 'bed down' and for people to get used to them before we launch more ships.

As a result, it means that players of these races must wait at least a year before we will be brought into line with the other races in the game. What is the point in this.


You might wait a lot less than a year - we are planning to release new ships via Signs & Portents, collating their stats into a book every Summer. In this way, we can support the game every month, rather than cramming everything into the middle fo the year as we do now.

I feel that Mongoose Publishing has let both myself and several other members of the ACTA community down in not supporting these newly released races.


It is unlikely that the Dilgar will get an Armageddon ship (no more than Early Years EA would). However, both the Dilgar and the Drakh clearly have a great deal of scope for expansion, and we will happily listen to any requests people have for them.

Hope that helps!



So, basically, if you're a race that isn't in the main book, you get to buy rulebooks that are "necessary" but that actually have about 2/3rds benefit to you that they do to other players AND you get to pay extra for your own Fleet's book, and are then expected to buy the Big book next year to get stuff from last year included, so basically you get to run a year behind all other races in the game at extra cost. Oh, unles you play Dilgar who don't actually get brought into line with the rest of the game.

Wonder just how many more people, knowing this, will be willing to go for a Dilgar fleet.

 

[Burger]

Hey, I'm Minbari, I got totally screwed over by the Armageddon changes! Stealth now blows, fighters can gank my low-hulled ships easily because they ignore stealth totally and can crowd right on top of my bases, and my Armageddon level ship has less crew than a Sharlin. Think yourself lucky you got no "new content"....

 

[TenaciousB]

Thanks a lot, Mongoose - I've just spend the best part of 150 quid on my Dilgar fleet, hoping to bolster it with something big and nasty to be "competitive" with the other races. Now I'm told I'm not getting anything bigger than my Mankhats or Mishakurs? Are you guys freaking serious???? :evil: :evil:

It's alright for Mongoose to release the Dilgar book, to release the models, AND to include them in the tournaments, but when it comes to getting some of the nice things like ALL the other races, its a nice, big "screw you, Benny" in big bold letters.

Well, nice to know what the company thinks of the Dilgar players out there.

Here's another question - what's the point in releasing the Armageddon supplement now, when the revised V2 of the game is coming out next year anyway? Seems like a good way of ripping people off twice, especially if you're a Dilgar or Drakh player.

Think I'll let Mongoose know exactly how I feel by speaking with my wallet in future.

 

[thePirv]

Burger, that should read, "got ANY "new content"

 

[tneva82]

Thanks a lot, Mongoose - I've just spend the best part of 150 quid on my Dilgar fleet, hoping to bolster it with something big and nasty to be "competitive" with the other races. Now I'm told I'm not getting anything bigger than my Mankhats or Mishakurs? Are you guys freaking serious???? :evil: :evil:

Bigger is not neccessarily better. You don't need those armageddon level ships to be competive.

especially if you're a Dilgar or Drakh player.

How's so? You are Dilgar and Drakh player and don't find Armageddon book worth it's price don't buy it! It's not like you are forced to buy one...

 

[TenaciousB]

Bigger is not neccessarily better. You don't need those armageddon level ships to be competive

No, I don't NEED em, but it would just be nice to be acknowledged by the company and shown the same respect as others by getting goodies as most of the other races got. I've already stated that ACTA is the only game I play, and that the Dilgar are the only fleet I wish to play as. It seems I'm being punished for not playing as one of the more "popular" races. So I suppose I'm asking: why release the Drakh/Dilgar at all, if they're not going to be properly supported?

How's so? You are Dilgar and Drakh player and don't find Armageddon book worth it's price don't buy it! It's not like you are forced to buy one...

Page 3 of this thread explains this best - at tournaments, you are expected to turn up with ALL the relevant documentation. I know people probably haven't been shown the door for not bringing SFOS or something, but it IS necessary, according to the Tournament pack.

May I be constructive, and suggest that this statement for the necessity of the books be omitted from the next tournament pack?