Armageddon for the Dilgar
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TenaciousB
Mongoose
Voronesh,
I don't play 40K anymore - the day GW get any more of my money is the day that pigs will fly - or a better analogy - the day the Dilgar get an Armegeddon-level ship.
Comparing GW with Mongoose is like trying to compare apples and oranges, for freak's sake - GW are just a bunch of money-grabbers who make things for themselves, and leave their customers (the supporters of their products, and in direct correlation, the ones who allow them to put food on the tables) high and dry.
After what's happened with Armageddon, it seems Mongoose and GW are becoming more and more alike.
I don't play 40K anymore - the day GW get any more of my money is the day that pigs will fly - or a better analogy - the day the Dilgar get an Armegeddon-level ship.
Comparing GW with Mongoose is like trying to compare apples and oranges, for freak's sake - GW are just a bunch of money-grabbers who make things for themselves, and leave their customers (the supporters of their products, and in direct correlation, the ones who allow them to put food on the tables) high and dry.
After what's happened with Armageddon, it seems Mongoose and GW are becoming more and more alike.
tneva82 said:Voronesh said:
Inability to break stealth(and ergo shoot with any efficiency) might have something to do with itLooking at the game stats might not be best way to explain what happened in the story.
You got it right there.
The game stats got it wrong. Thats just what i am saying. War lvl Dilgar ships? As powerful as Sharlins? No way of the better EA ships a few years later got creamed.
Basically apple A is beaten by Grapefruits, but Apple B (Same apple just a different color) kicks the crap out of those grapefruits......
I only want to point out, that the stats in ACTA got it wrong.
B5Wars, kinda called canon if i understand the B5Wars veterans right, had Mishakurs and Nova listed at about equal lvls, that makes sense with the story. But ACTA stuff, kinda breaks sense.
I have no rpoblem with it not being logical, but i dont like it when people want to grab onto it as if it would be reality.
Battletech isnt even half realistic, and that means miltary spendings, they have microscopic militaries. Calculations yields that one planet instead of the needed dozens could sustain the whole military. Illogical is part of Science Fiction, but told hold on to it.
Greg Smith
Mongoose
thePirv said:
Neither do the Drazi, the Vree or the Raiders.
Mongoose have said they will be publishing new ships in Signs & Portents. That could be as early as next week and for free.
While you do have a point, Mongoose have explained their reasons and offered a solution, yet you continue to see it in the worst possible way.
TenaciousB
Mongoose
And another point about 40k vs ACTA:
When GW released a codex, yes it was usually 1 army at a time.
Armageddon comes out from Mongoose - Almost all the races get something, except the Dilgar and Drakh.
When GW released a codex, yes it was usually 1 army at a time.
Armageddon comes out from Mongoose - Almost all the races get something, except the Dilgar and Drakh.
Voronesh said:
Precicely. Warlock might justabout be able to have some chance against Sharlin(maybe EA has managed to get some grasp on how to deal with stealth by then) but Dilgar-era EA ships wouldn't stand a chance. And if EA managed to kick the crap out of Dilgar either Dilgar didn't have ships capable of fighting Sharlins one on one or they had some seriously tiny fleet.
Certainly concidered so by the Big Man himself...Kinda lends it some authority in my books
Voronesh said:
Yes, both these Fleets are new. Obviously Armageddon was at least being planned when these fleet books were being written. So why not simply include a new ship for each in Armageddon since they were obviously being planned simultaneously.
And as for putting Arma level ships in the Drakh and Dilgar Fleetbooks, it would have led to all the new priority level rules being put into the Drakh or Dilgar books. Then people would have complained that THEY were being given the shaft since these new races got Arma level ships while the rest of the fleets didn't.
I don't think it's too much to ask that DRAKH AND DILGAR PLAYERS GET THE SAME BENEFITS AT THE SAME TIME AS THE REST OF THE COMMUNITY INSTEAD OF BEING EXPECTED TO BUY A BOOK WITH LITTLE RELEVANCE TO THEM OTHER THAN 3 PAGES OF RULES UPDATES AND THEN EXPECTED TO BUY ANOTHER BOOK A YEAR LATER TO COLLATE UPDATEs THEY SHOULD HAVE GOTTEN MONTHS TO A YEAR AGO!
Burger said:
Thank you ^^
As i said, i recall that about B5Wars being said by B5Wars vets. I didnbt state that as correct.
But you state that ACTA is about as useful as a bowl of fruits for rules.
Which strengthens my belief that Dilgar should stay at raid, if you want historical. Novas are there. And the EA didnt have much better during that time.
tneva82 said:Voronesh said:
Precicely. Warlock might justabout be able to have some chance against Sharlin(maybe EA has managed to get some grasp on how to deal with stealth by then) but Dilgar-era EA ships wouldn't stand a chance. And if EA managed to kick the crap out of Dilgar either Dilgar didn't have ships capable of fighting Sharlins one on one or they had some seriously tiny fleet.
Certainly concidered so by the Big Man himself...Kinda lends it some authority in my books
And here goes the quote again.
I hate double posting, but yes ACTA is alot less canon than B5Wars....
Which means that Dilgar are just boosted to insane lvls.
Use above post with a grain of salt. But the argument still stand even if B5Wars is as uncanon as ACTA.
Uhh right. But then it still means you could your ARMA ships ahead of everyone else.
Now do you wnat a company like GW that screws you over and makes you wait for months, sor something that you should have gotten jalf a year ago, aor gives you your stuff right away.
thePirv said:
Are you sure all fleets are supposed to have arma level ships? Those 2 races aren't only ones without armageddon level ships you know. Especially idea of Dilgar having armageddon level ship is just ridiculous. If they would have had ship superior to Sharlin they would have never lost against EA...
Evgen a single ship of that size, would have screwed Raid lvl novas by such an amount, it would have been fun to watch. OOPS they are about 6 times stronger than a Nova. Not going down without some huge investment, and the DIlgar were actually superior with strategy. (Well it is quite a ACTA mirror image of WW2)
Even fighting on multiple fronts, those enemies were what? Right very contained. Anyon else just joind up with EA, providing more raid lvl ships.
Space doesnt provide you with multiple fronts unless you count every single planet as a front. Or you have a battletech like FTL Drive....
Oh yeah as Burger stated. ACTA is not canon. B5Wars kinda is. Now what is more correct? Mishakurs at raid, maybe 1.5 raid, the usual half step to battle that some races get, or the ACTA War lvl version?
Even fighting on multiple fronts, those enemies were what? Right very contained. Anyon else just joind up with EA, providing more raid lvl ships.
Space doesnt provide you with multiple fronts unless you count every single planet as a front. Or you have a battletech like FTL Drive....
Oh yeah as Burger stated. ACTA is not canon. B5Wars kinda is. Now what is more correct? Mishakurs at raid, maybe 1.5 raid, the usual half step to battle that some races get, or the ACTA War lvl version?
Slightly Norse John
Mongoose
I am predominantly a Dilgar and Centauri player, true, but I've tried out most things, including a lot of EA. I'm not exactly overwhelmed by Armageddon, but I would be more worried if they did do a major update. Look at the EA capital ships and the Saggy; is this what you want?
It has got to the stage now where at Dunfermline, there are people refusing to take Minbari against my Dilgar, because they think I'll beat them too easily. I may post more alternative/evolutionary Dilgar designs, but they'll just be noodling around, not really necessary- if anything the Dilgar fleet needs a downgrade, not an upgrade.
How did they manage to lose the war? Any number of ways they could have done it. Having a command structure infested with psychopaths is much less of an advantage than it sounds, for one.
Strategic overstretch- the bubble simply got too thin, they were spread too far out, trying to control and exploit too much territory, with no strategic reserve.
Tactical miscalculations- the Dilgar seem to have been aggressive to a fault, prone to leaving themselves without things like a plan 'b', an alternative way out, or anything resembling real knowledge of their enemies.
Who knows, maybe EA did have superior numbers. Superior numbers on the line, anyway- probably the Dilgar ships were being used until they started to fall apart, sent back for minimum time refits and shoved back on to the line again. Unreliable ships and weary crews. As for being proud of a pyrrhic victory- ask a Russian about the Great Patriotic War.
As for not having a ship above Raid level- well, let me see, that would mean my fleet would top out at the Targrath. Actually, it usually does anyway. That's really the key to Dilgar victory; assault wolfpacks of fast smaller ships with proportionately absurdly heavy armament. I'd be perfectly happy with that. I think my opponents might not, though.
It has got to the stage now where at Dunfermline, there are people refusing to take Minbari against my Dilgar, because they think I'll beat them too easily. I may post more alternative/evolutionary Dilgar designs, but they'll just be noodling around, not really necessary- if anything the Dilgar fleet needs a downgrade, not an upgrade.
How did they manage to lose the war? Any number of ways they could have done it. Having a command structure infested with psychopaths is much less of an advantage than it sounds, for one.
Strategic overstretch- the bubble simply got too thin, they were spread too far out, trying to control and exploit too much territory, with no strategic reserve.
Tactical miscalculations- the Dilgar seem to have been aggressive to a fault, prone to leaving themselves without things like a plan 'b', an alternative way out, or anything resembling real knowledge of their enemies.
Who knows, maybe EA did have superior numbers. Superior numbers on the line, anyway- probably the Dilgar ships were being used until they started to fall apart, sent back for minimum time refits and shoved back on to the line again. Unreliable ships and weary crews. As for being proud of a pyrrhic victory- ask a Russian about the Great Patriotic War.
As for not having a ship above Raid level- well, let me see, that would mean my fleet would top out at the Targrath. Actually, it usually does anyway. That's really the key to Dilgar victory; assault wolfpacks of fast smaller ships with proportionately absurdly heavy armament. I'd be perfectly happy with that. I think my opponents might not, though.
Not to mention that the Dilgar weren't defeated, only contained in their home range until the Omelos star went Nova.
Also, in the Dilgar Fleet book, at the end of the Tikrit fluff, there is mention of super cruisers being built that never saw active duty because the star went nova, so apparently the Dilgar can have more powerful ships, they just don't because Mongoose aren't supporting the new releases, either with additional Priority levels that everyone else got or with Counters that are a mainstay of ACTA. But ho-hum, they're new. Nobody cares about supporting the new products.
Also, in the Dilgar Fleet book, at the end of the Tikrit fluff, there is mention of super cruisers being built that never saw active duty because the star went nova, so apparently the Dilgar can have more powerful ships, they just don't because Mongoose aren't supporting the new releases, either with additional Priority levels that everyone else got or with Counters that are a mainstay of ACTA. But ho-hum, they're new. Nobody cares about supporting the new products.
i am sure they will get new ships in the future. as for counters its not financialy viable to release counters for one race. am sure matt already said they will be releasing a new counters set at some point, my guess is this will have the drakh, dilgar and all the armageddon stuff in it. stop whining so much and use the stuff you have, and wait for new stuff as they wont just abandon a race.
