Arma: Fighters:Anti-Fighter:

[thePirv]

Ah, then fair enough.

But still, just because the rules in playtest at the minute don't even remotely resemble any of the suggestions, is that any reason to just jump on all of the suggestions being made. Pretty much all mini's gamers are budding games designers who have their ideas for game mechanics and improvements to existing games. It's possible that with some thought and input from others that at some point, the community might come up with something Mongoose haven't that might work beter than what Matt's already thought of. I'm not saying that this will always, or even ever be the case, but it's a possibility.

 

[philogara]

So none of these ideas will be used? Funny, the number of comments in praise of MGP we hear because they DO consider what players are saying would suggest that (one) of these ideas may see the light of day. Not in its current form perhaps.

I didn't say there wouldn't be a change. There will, but none of the ideas I've read so far are curently (or likely) part of the proposed set of changes. But whatever does happen, it's highly unlikely there will be another change before second edition, unless it's to comply with public demand - in which case, don't expect it to be anything other than a patch. It's the changes brought about to appease people that don't work.

However, nothing has yet been decided for certain on second edition.

Wulf

Is that a reason to shoot them down? They are ideas, and maybe they will just be house rules, but I don't see that makes the discussion invalid.

 

[Wulf Corbett]

Is that a reason to shoot them down? They are ideas, and maybe they will just be house rules, but I don't see that makes the discussion invalid.

As far as I'm concerned, every new idea deserves to be shot down. The ones that survive the flak are the ones worth looking at again. Survival of the fittest.

Wulf

 

[philogara]

Is that a reason to shoot them down? They are ideas, and maybe they will just be house rules, but I don't see that makes the discussion invalid.

As far as I'm concerned, every new idea deserves to be shot down. The ones that survive the flak are the ones worth looking at again. Survival of the fittest.

Wulf

Okay, bad choice of words, it was the nature of the shooting down I was concerned with.

 

[thePirv]

As far as I'm concerned, every new idea deserves to be shot down. The ones that survive the flak are the ones worth looking at again. Survival of the fittest.

Wulf

No, new ideas deserve to be closely scrutinised to make sure they're workable, but added to where holes are found instead of simply dismissing them as "Not gonna happen. NEXT!"
Mongoose pride themselves on listening to the fans to give the fans the game they want, so surely if the fans work together to produce some suggestions then they are immediately wortwhile and should be given due consideration.

For you as a playtester Wulf, you certainly shouldn't just dismiss these suggestions out of hand.
I fear that your integrity as a plytester would be severely compromised if you were to simply dismiss all ideas, only to have one show up in a future playtest.

 

[Wulf Corbett]

I fear that your integrity as a plytester would be severely compromised if you were to simply dismiss all ideas, only to have one show up in a future playtest.

Not at all. The ones which survive the flak deserve to survive. I don't dismiss ALL ideas, I have continued to give some support to the idea of firing A-F first, then fighters, then all other weapons (although it's got problems).

It's like Simon Cowell or whatever his name is. No point in mincing words and pretending an idea has merit when I can't see any.

Wulf

 

[mthomason]

Ah, I think Wulf's intentions are just being misunderstood here

I believe he means shooting down new ideas in order to then force people to come up with a good argument in response as to why they shouldn't have been shot down, thus ensuring that people put a lot of thought into any changes and that they really do then get evaluated on their own merits once someone has figured out what those merits actually are.

Admittedly he does it rather ruthlessly, akin to throwing every newborn child into the river to ensure only those who made it back up to the surface survive and that no additional effort is wasted on those that do not, but I believe he does have good intentions at heart

 

[Silvereye]

Ah, so Wulf is really a Lumati then...

 

[Wulf Corbett]

Admittedly he does it rather ruthlessly, akin to throwing every newborn child into the river to ensure only those who made it back up to the surface survive and that no additional effort is wasted on those that do not, but I believe he does have good intentions at heart

Sort of. Most children should be drowned at birth, I'll grant you... :wink:

I simply think there are far too many ideas here that may suit the individual who thought them out, but would never get officially adopted because of complexity or vague wording. Mongoose has enough vague wording as it is.

Wulf

 

[Wulf Corbett]

Ah, so Wulf is really a Lumati then...

I'd love to ask what one of those is, but given your current sig I'm afraid it might be shushed... :?:

Wulf

 

[thePirv]

So instead of just puting the idea down, use constructive criticism to achieve the same end.
Just saying that an idea won't work outright stops others from considering it. It won't stop everybody, but it will put some people off. The forums are here for discussion, so discuss. By all means, point out flaws, but also offer suggestions or alternatives.

 

[Wulf Corbett]

So instead of just puting the idea down, use constructive criticism to achieve the same end.

This particular 'discussion' began because I DID criticise, and asked for clarification and more complete ideas on a rule. And was promptly criticised in return as nitpicking. So, apparently, asking for clarification is unacceptable, and I should simply accept any ideas as perfectly formed. :roll:

Wulf

 

[thePirv]

It was the manner in which you worded your criticism. You criticised and i offered a counter. You criticised again. That's what I'm getting at, everybody is so quick to criticise, but instead of constant criticisms, make suggestions, don't be negative about everything all the time. Yes, criticise, that's not the problem. But if you'r egoing to criticise somebody for trying, at least offer up a suggestion as to what could be done to make it right.

The way you seem to think it should work is that one person shoud have an idea, then it should be criticised and the person should constantly have to answer the criticism and constantly refine their idea until it is perfect.

By that method, no idea will ever get anywhere, whereas if people criticise, but also add to the idea constructively, then a decent idea may just be reached.

Constructive criticism s great. Criticism for criticism' sake is pointless.

 

[Silvereye]

Ah, so Wulf is really a Lumati then...

I'd love to ask what one of those is, but given your current sig I'm afraid it might be shushed... :?:

Wulf

They are the high tech aliens that appear in Season 2. Basically they beleive in survival of the fittest to the extreme. If something dies then it is obviously inferior and didn't deserve to be saved. After a tour of the station they were impressed by 'down below' and were planning on implementing a similar scheme in their society.

They also ha some strange ritual about sealing agreements with sex.

Now if only someone could tell me what episode it was.

As to the sig, I seem to be going through a dyslexic finger syndrome phase.

 

[Wulf Corbett]

They are the high tech aliens that appear in Season 2. Basically they beleive in survival of the fittest to the extreme. If something dies then it is obviously inferior and didn't deserve to be saved.

I thought that was the Drazi...

They also ha some strange ritual about sealing agreements with sex.

Ah. That would be (one of) Ivanova's finest hour, if I remember right?

Wulf

 

[thePirv]

They are the high tech aliens that appear in Season 2. Basically they beleive in survival of the fittest to the extreme. If something dies then it is obviously inferior and didn't deserve to be saved.

I thought that was the Drazi...

They also ha some strange ritual about sealing agreements with sex.

Ah. That would be (one of) Ivanova's finest hour, if I remember right?

Wulf

Only next time they do it the Lumati way

 

[B5freak]

Quick disclaimer, haven't read this whole thread, just the first couple posts.

We implemented the idea of A-F weapons going before fighters some time ago and it's worked out just fine. In fact, it helps enforce a "feel" to those fleets that don't have A-F weapons since the admiral really has to think about his fighter screen since that's his only defense against fleets with anti-capital ship fighters (Narn, EA, Drazi, etc).

 

[Nomad]

Since fighters now short-circuit AF weapons, what about breaching pods?

Surely they can deliver their marines (if Auxilliary craft attack first) before being reduced to scrap by their targets defences?

Sauce for the goose...

 

[B5freak]

We put in that any aux craft attacking a ship with A-F weapons is an eligible target. Yes, it will make life more interesting for breaching pods, but given the pod's generally higher Hull (6 for EA), they should still have a more than reasonable chance of getting through.

 

[Target]

This is a long thread.
Ignoring stealth within 1" extremely silly idea.
Fighters firing first, haven't we tried this all ready.
We have playin fighters firing in groups at same time ships for months now, not hard to do , game more tactical as to what to i fire now.
Back to stealth range shouldn't really effect it as it doesn't effect weapons ability to hit, won't say any more as there are other threads about stealth.
I actually hate the dogfight rule it makes fighters kinda static when they should be zooming around the board. Another thing we changed was you shot your fighters at their fighters, dogfight score is the modifier to dodge. We have being a lot fun in our games with these rules, we actually have a couple more of house rules but these are the main ones and it has been working.