Are Gaim THAT good?
- Thread starter Gollum9
- Start date
Quick comment on from a bit back...
Shields... the ships that got shields had their damage/crew scores reduced to account for the shields. They don't really 'add' to the damage crew as much as account for a limited crit immunity. That immunity is likely stripped off on the first turn by the photon bombs which can't crit anyway, thus providing no real benefit against the Gaim unless like the shadows you can regen the entire thing every turn.
Ripple
Shields... the ships that got shields had their damage/crew scores reduced to account for the shields. They don't really 'add' to the damage crew as much as account for a limited crit immunity. That immunity is likely stripped off on the first turn by the photon bombs which can't crit anyway, thus providing no real benefit against the Gaim unless like the shadows you can regen the entire thing every turn.
Ripple
Don't forget Shadows can turn up to 90 degrees in place and then move twice their normal speed in a straight line. Which on the Young Shadow Ship comes out to 16 inches. Combined with a 24 in. beam and they have a 40 in. strike range. Not quite as far as the Gaim, but you're gonna be running out of room real quick
Deployment + double move + 24range = ship in range on turn 1. Shadow will likely win initiative, so he can deploy as close as he can get. Also remember you won't have all ships to shoot in 1 round, as shadow downs one before it can shoot. SO it's 9 queens shooting on 1. turn, 8 second. And I wouldn't take chances with scout, he will probably widraw on turn 1.
Anyway, maybe other fleets can invent something with large carriers. As they deploy fighters et the end of the turn, they can deploy 4 flights in a way to make it impossible to make contact with carrier in fighter movement phase. Ofcourse they will die later to gaim fighters or photon bombs, but you are safe from crewed missiles and breaching pods for this turn. With some help and planning, you can try to do it with some other fighter carring ships... Maybe it can tip the battle in your favor :wink:
Anyway, maybe other fleets can invent something with large carriers. As they deploy fighters et the end of the turn, they can deploy 4 flights in a way to make it impossible to make contact with carrier in fighter movement phase. Ofcourse they will die later to gaim fighters or photon bombs, but you are safe from crewed missiles and breaching pods for this turn. With some help and planning, you can try to do it with some other fighter carring ships... Maybe it can tip the battle in your favor :wink:
victor romeo
Mongoose
Misiolak said:
The trouble is that this is still tailoring a fleet to take on one enemy. I think most people will agree that the two ship shadow fleet dies horribly against most other fleets. Bore sight beam heavy fleets such as Narn and EA Hyperions will have a field day.
Unfortunately, I think you are right. Such fleet is hardly competitive against most fleets and I would field it only becouse I like the shadow ship miniature :wink:
But then, it would have minimal chances to meet Gaim in tournament, as I would probably loose first battle, and winners ussualy fight winners.
What about base contact denial tactic I wrote? Has anyone come with a way/fleet to use it?
But then, it would have minimal chances to meet Gaim in tournament, as I would probably loose first battle, and winners ussualy fight winners.
What about base contact denial tactic I wrote? Has anyone come with a way/fleet to use it?
Someone wrote baout it, and it might work, but the problem is, that there are always mutiple ships in a fleet, and you can cover so many with fighters. patrolpoint bought wings are not the way to go, as they will die horribly to photon bombs, youd have to launch them slowly from ships like Omegas, but if there are ships like hyperions in a fleet as well, id just rerout my crewed missiles as Gaim and smash those.
So currently i would rate Shadows as being unable to fight Gaim, unless they bring a fleet with horrible chances against any other enemy (your standard ISA or EA or cent or Narn fleet or whatever). Abbai i give pretty much no chances as well.........Milani will die to concentrated photon bomb barrages, and bimiths share the same fate, though they might be simply boarded via braching pods. Patrol lvl ships arent even worth mentioning :S (as is any other swarm type fleet)
What im wondering is that there are so few people complaining, unlike 1 year ago with the Sagittarius case. I agree that a more balanced Gaim fleet (utilizing different ships) would be certainly more balanced against other races, but the "armageddon" early era EA and the sag were like that too.
So currently i would rate Shadows as being unable to fight Gaim, unless they bring a fleet with horrible chances against any other enemy (your standard ISA or EA or cent or Narn fleet or whatever). Abbai i give pretty much no chances as well.........Milani will die to concentrated photon bomb barrages, and bimiths share the same fate, though they might be simply boarded via braching pods. Patrol lvl ships arent even worth mentioning :S (as is any other swarm type fleet)
What im wondering is that there are so few people complaining, unlike 1 year ago with the Sagittarius case. I agree that a more balanced Gaim fleet (utilizing different ships) would be certainly more balanced against other races, but the "armageddon" early era EA and the sag were like that too.
Well, if victory is determined by VP a possible answer would seem to be: use long range weapons to nail a queen or two in the first couple turns, and then bug out. With the Gaim's interceper and hull scores beams are probably the best bet for this tactic.
I'm pretty sure someone's suggested this(or something similar) before, but I'm currently too lazy to go check.
I'm pretty sure someone's suggested this(or something similar) before, but I'm currently too lazy to go check.
Arent you giving the eneym VP for withdrawing to hyperspace as well? (Sorry im not so good with scenarios, we always just blasted each other to hell)
Plus if there are victory conditions for claiming table quarters or fleeing to the jumpgate, withdrawing aint such a good option. (oh heck, i dont even know tourney scenarios........so just ignore this if you think im blabbing)
Plus if there are victory conditions for claiming table quarters or fleeing to the jumpgate, withdrawing aint such a good option. (oh heck, i dont even know tourney scenarios........so just ignore this if you think im blabbing)
victor romeo
Mongoose
Misiolak said:
Can't see this. The Shadow Ship holds up because its combination of shields and Self Repair make it fairly safe from Photon Bombs and/or the (maximum)10 flights of Suicide Fighters that could make it into Base contact. The Cidikar and White Star Carrier will both be wittled down by Photon Bombs and neither can put out enough fighters to see off the 60 or so flights of Gaim fighters coming their way. The WSC is also further inconvenienced by no AF fire.
You are suggesting carriers as potential winners. Interesting, as those fighters are probably going to be worthless :S. This is actually a 90% given (danger this number is assumed and i like to use it as a cutoff meaning as good as you can get when dice are involved) with 40 Emine templates.
Now lets check the Brakiri Cidikar:
Falkiosi die in 35 out of 36 cases and Pikatos die in 8 out of 9 cases, i guess we can rule them out as a huge factor. Especially when abcked up by 60 fighters against the mere 20 a Cidikar has. Even when regarding the dogfight of +2 on Falkiosi.
Now onto the ship itself. It has 105 damage and hull 5. That gives me about 33 damage per turn with Emines plus any potential missiles, which might not erxist of the Cidikar keeps fighter flights as defense (a near given). Speed 6 is not much of a threat for a Gaim and a 20" laser cannon with 4 AD is not even going to harm a single queen ship per turn. The 12" gravitic pulsars are good but as a gaim id start to use the mouse and catr game for this. Especially as turreted photon bombs will help me out. Breaching pods would make a Gaim autowin this game, if he could attach them to the ship, but the Cidikar will prevent that using the same methods used against missiles.
Now for the White Star Carrier option, and ISA steps into the fray to protect the weak (or ins this case maybe only just normal ones too) against the almighty Gaim fleet. (sry for this announcement oculdnt withstand some boxing ring feeling)
Now WSfighters actually survive in 1 out of 4 cases, a second emine drops this to 1 out of 16 cases and your good to go, and its only 8 of them around unlike the Cidikar which had 20 at its disposal. But they are seriously fast and weaponheavy and dogfight on a +4. The Gaim are going to use a (to be continued.......gotta go :S)
(posting contnues after 3 answers)
all of their 60 fighters to clear them out, afterwards the crewed missiles are ready to fly. Breaching pods are going to play a major factor in this Gaim, with the Queens desperately wanting to attach them top the WSC such a precious piece of technolgy to be dissected by their dronds for future use! If those breaching pods wouldnt be speed 8 and the WSC speed 12 this would be so easy (and lets not forget that accurate mole pulsar, but alas no. But 1 meagre troop means if a single breaching pod makes contact the WSC is lost. On to our great tactic of phtonbomibng everything to dust. Hull5 means there are going to be about 16 damage per turn, giving a WSC a life expectancy of 2-3 turns due to self repair, even with a a few quick kills of queenships, i wont rate a WSC longer than 4 turns because two turns of 80AD is enough to kill it if it had not self repair, even with self rep, it might just get 4 turns, but then those crewed missiles will get more and mroe board control, and those might just kill it even faster, and BPs are more than enough for it. Lets not forget that a WSC can be bolstered by extra Blue Stars or Nolo Tars. but i dissmiss them as not being survivable enough to make a difference. The Blu has a woefull hull of 4 so a few crewed missiles are going to make short work of it, and a Nolo Tar does not have AA so the same goes for that ship, ok anti fighter 4 is going to help, but there are only 2 of them and about 60 potential crewed missiles on the board.
The only danger i see is a massed use of molepulsars used on fighters instead of queenships, but that is just going to delay the inevitable, more photon bombs and and less dead queenships.....
Now lets check the Brakiri Cidikar:
Falkiosi die in 35 out of 36 cases and Pikatos die in 8 out of 9 cases, i guess we can rule them out as a huge factor. Especially when abcked up by 60 fighters against the mere 20 a Cidikar has. Even when regarding the dogfight of +2 on Falkiosi.
Now onto the ship itself. It has 105 damage and hull 5. That gives me about 33 damage per turn with Emines plus any potential missiles, which might not erxist of the Cidikar keeps fighter flights as defense (a near given). Speed 6 is not much of a threat for a Gaim and a 20" laser cannon with 4 AD is not even going to harm a single queen ship per turn. The 12" gravitic pulsars are good but as a gaim id start to use the mouse and catr game for this. Especially as turreted photon bombs will help me out. Breaching pods would make a Gaim autowin this game, if he could attach them to the ship, but the Cidikar will prevent that using the same methods used against missiles.
Now for the White Star Carrier option, and ISA steps into the fray to protect the weak (or ins this case maybe only just normal ones too) against the almighty Gaim fleet. (sry for this announcement oculdnt withstand some boxing ring feeling)
Now WSfighters actually survive in 1 out of 4 cases, a second emine drops this to 1 out of 16 cases and your good to go, and its only 8 of them around unlike the Cidikar which had 20 at its disposal. But they are seriously fast and weaponheavy and dogfight on a +4. The Gaim are going to use a (to be continued.......gotta go :S)
(posting contnues after 3 answers)
all of their 60 fighters to clear them out, afterwards the crewed missiles are ready to fly. Breaching pods are going to play a major factor in this Gaim, with the Queens desperately wanting to attach them top the WSC such a precious piece of technolgy to be dissected by their dronds for future use! If those breaching pods wouldnt be speed 8 and the WSC speed 12 this would be so easy (and lets not forget that accurate mole pulsar, but alas no. But 1 meagre troop means if a single breaching pod makes contact the WSC is lost. On to our great tactic of phtonbomibng everything to dust. Hull5 means there are going to be about 16 damage per turn, giving a WSC a life expectancy of 2-3 turns due to self repair, even with a a few quick kills of queenships, i wont rate a WSC longer than 4 turns because two turns of 80AD is enough to kill it if it had not self repair, even with self rep, it might just get 4 turns, but then those crewed missiles will get more and mroe board control, and those might just kill it even faster, and BPs are more than enough for it. Lets not forget that a WSC can be bolstered by extra Blue Stars or Nolo Tars. but i dissmiss them as not being survivable enough to make a difference. The Blu has a woefull hull of 4 so a few crewed missiles are going to make short work of it, and a Nolo Tar does not have AA so the same goes for that ship, ok anti fighter 4 is going to help, but there are only 2 of them and about 60 potential crewed missiles on the board.
The only danger i see is a massed use of molepulsars used on fighters instead of queenships, but that is just going to delay the inevitable, more photon bombs and and less dead queenships.....
Misiolak said:
hmm White Star carrier - its Adaptive armour helps but its only hull 5 and no dodging and as pretty much the only target.................also the breeching pods would be nasty? The WS fighters have reaonable guns and can survive, even win most dogfights even against superior numbers but also have to brave AAF to do damage................
We have a new contender the Ipsha war Globe (actually two since there are 2 of them.) Initiative 3 like the Gaim themselves so i wont go into too many LONAW allies, since only Gaim apply at that ini rating, and mirror matches arent fun. Plus small ships always get fried too quickly by photon bomb collateral damage or crewed missiles that are way too many on the board.
Now lets get an in depth view of this ship close to 70 damage, ignores it on a 5+ and has AF8 stopping our Gaim from getting too frisky with missiles or boarding pods. But it is only speed 5 with Shadow SM, that makes it able to move 10", now Boarding pods just might make it into contact...Hull5 boarding pods give us 3 shot down by AF fire and then our close combat drons are up against a measly 1 troop. No accurate weaponry makes this an easy task. Now if the enemy actually uses two of those queenships as protection for his 2 warglobes we can turn the tide, but using a poweful ship to counter itself isnt really a solution.
Now if we do not want to capture ships with black holes as energy sources (they might go off and kill my brood!!!) we might just blast them. 22 damage per turn (cause they are only hull5
) isnt really going to leave an impression. It simply takes far too long to kill these buggers. Now for return fire, theres 6 SAP/TD AD per ship, giving it 3 hits and against our Int2 rating we are looking at nearly on dead queen ship per turn.
Now without breaching pods this might be a good matchup for an Ipsha fleet, but since we can board them, this just turns into a different kid of battle.
What the Gaim cannot blast to shreds they can conquer(board), and this is a serious factor, the only reason why the shadow ship(young) can actually win against this fleet.
Now lets get an in depth view of this ship close to 70 damage, ignores it on a 5+ and has AF8 stopping our Gaim from getting too frisky with missiles or boarding pods. But it is only speed 5 with Shadow SM, that makes it able to move 10", now Boarding pods just might make it into contact...Hull5 boarding pods give us 3 shot down by AF fire and then our close combat drons are up against a measly 1 troop. No accurate weaponry makes this an easy task. Now if the enemy actually uses two of those queenships as protection for his 2 warglobes we can turn the tide, but using a poweful ship to counter itself isnt really a solution.
Now if we do not want to capture ships with black holes as energy sources (they might go off and kill my brood!!!) we might just blast them. 22 damage per turn (cause they are only hull5
) isnt really going to leave an impression. It simply takes far too long to kill these buggers. Now for return fire, theres 6 SAP/TD AD per ship, giving it 3 hits and against our Int2 rating we are looking at nearly on dead queen ship per turn.Now without breaching pods this might be a good matchup for an Ipsha fleet, but since we can board them, this just turns into a different kid of battle.
What the Gaim cannot blast to shreds they can conquer(board), and this is a serious factor, the only reason why the shadow ship(young) can actually win against this fleet.
What about using ships like a Halik? With the SA for getting extra AF (or Interceptor) dices = 16 AF dice with escort.
Two of them and some other liga-ships, fast forward.
Breching-pods are not a great Problem, only doge 5 and not fast enough.
But wich other Liga-ships, don´t know. Maby a Lumati-Transport? With it special-rule of using hyperspace and a 6AD Beam, Precise ?
CU
Two of them and some other liga-ships, fast forward.
Breching-pods are not a great Problem, only doge 5 and not fast enough.
But wich other Liga-ships, don´t know. Maby a Lumati-Transport? With it special-rule of using hyperspace and a 6AD Beam, Precise ?
CU
