Alternate Beams

[Locutus9956]

Another idea I just had but that would require signifigant rebalancing, would be to simply say something like beam: Roll 2d6, the weapon scores that many hits. Makes them reliable, powereful and also by the very nature of average scores on 2d6 totalled the damage scored will tend to clumb around 6-8 with the outside small and big hits becomeing increasingly unlikely the further they are from the average 7.

Now obviously that would mean any beam would average 7 hits so this particular rule would be WAY too good for ships stats they way they are currently (and indeed would be a signifigant improvement for any beam weapon with less than 6 or 7 dice so its not really one Id eve consider without totally redoing the fleet lists but its an idea I wouldnt entirely throw out for future editions if the lists were to be redone anyway for example.... (smaller ships should obviously NEVER get such a nasty weapon, rather Id suggest simply giving them a minibeam with a bunch of dice)

 

[greenboy]

Another idea I just had but that would require signifigant rebalancing, would be to simply say something like beam: Roll 2d6, the weapon scores that many hits. Makes them reliable, powereful and also by the very nature of average scores on 2d6 totalled the damage scored will tend to clumb around 6-8 with the outside small and big hits becomeing increasingly unlikely the further they are from the average 7.

Now obviously that would mean any beam would average 7 hits so this particular rule would be WAY too good for ships stats they way they are currently (and indeed would be a signifigant improvement for any beam weapon with less than 6 or 7 dice so its not really one Id eve consider without totally redoing the fleet lists but its an idea I wouldnt entirely throw out for future editions if the lists were to be redone anyway for example.... (smaller ships should obviously NEVER get such a nasty weapon, rather Id suggest simply giving them a minibeam with a bunch of dice)

you could add a modifier so it becomes 2d6 + (ships current beam dice -7)
so a ship which has 4 dice would roll 2d6-3 for an average of 4 hits min of 0 and a max of 9

 

[dag'karlove]

Please, everyone, stop trying to fix things that arent Broken.

 

[Triggy]

Please, everyone, stop trying to fix things that arent Broken.

But that's half the fun with any game

 

[ShopKeepJon]

Please, everyone, stop trying to fix things that arent Broken.

Forums are funny things...

The way that a rule is perceived to work in an individual poster's small gaming community (and everyone's gaming community is small compared to the worldwide community of people playing the game) is assumed to be the way the rule is perceived to work everywhere.

Many people think that the rule is broken (or at least annoying). Nobody is forcing you change the way you play. We're just discussing things that might make the game more fun for us.

Also...
The percentage of players who "do the math" is disproportionately high on forums compared to the "average" gaming group.

It has been my experience (and I've played a lot of different games in a lot of different venues) that far more people worry about how a unit/rule feels than how it plays mathematically. Because of this, "feel" is vitally important to a game.

If a unit/rule feels broken, then it is broken from a player enjoyment perspective. After all, player enjoyment is what we're looking for isn't it?

Now my perception may be wrong. After all, I too play in a "small community." That's why I read and post on this forum. I'm trying to broaden my view of how this game is played and perceived in the larger gaming community...

ShopKeepJon

 

[ShopKeepJon]

For those of you who don't like math, please ignore the following...

I would love to know the actual probability of rolling ridiculously high numbers of hits with beams.

Would someone (who's still up on probability math) be willing to work out the actual probability of rolling specific numbers of hits with a beam weapon.

I would do it myself, but frankly I've forgotten how... (It's been a long time since I've needed these particular skills...)

Assume a six die beam weapon. Working out the probability of rolling 0-18 (inclusive) hits should be enough to see what we're working with.

For anyone willing to do this, thanks in advance.

ShopKeepJon

 

[CZuschlag]

Suggestion from a Math guy: you can calculate out the Markov chain, but it's far better to write a simple Monte Carlo method to simulate out 100,000 iterations or so.

 

[ShopKeepJon]

Suggestion from a Math guy: you can calculate out the Markov chain, but it's far better to write a simple Monte Carlo method to simulate out 100,000 iterations or so.

Cool! Go for it...

...uh,... please...

ShopKeepJon

 

[David Anla Shok']

Doing the math= drinking heavily, using the Force, and making a wild ass guess. Usually works for me.





"Plot, scheme, plan, stratagise. The dice will make a fool of you everytime"
NDM

 

[CZuschlag]

I got how I'm going to do it. Results, and the standard deviation of the distribution, should be done by Monday (work right now truly sucks.).

 

[ShopKeepJon]

(work right now truly sucks.).

My three year old isn't sleeping and I'm trying to shake a cold. I understand...

That's (mostly) the reason that I didn't want to try to do it myself... I'm just really tired...

Thanks for your effort.

ShopKeepJon

 

[CZuschlag]

I'm crashing every other night on the floor of my office at work, and am working to deliver the software on Saturdays and Sundays, too. This Monday, I get to exhale.

I may release it as a tiny .exe file that will work for any number of dice, and any sequence of to-hit rolls needed, giving averages, medians, modes, and standard deviations.

 

[Burger]

Would someone (who's still up on probability math) be willing to work out the actual probability of rolling specific numbers of hits with a beam weapon.

For a 6 AD weapon - results from 1 million attack rolls. The dice was rolled 12,003,182 times, results being 6,000,443 hits and 6,002,739 misses - very fair dice rolling, I would say!

0 hits: 1.57%
1 hit: 4.65%
2 hits: 8.17%
3 hits: 10.97%
4 hits: 12.28%
5 hits: 12.35%
6 hits: 11.26%
7 hits: 9.69%
8 hits: 7.86%
9 hits: 6.11%
10 hits: 4.59%
11 hits: 3.35%
12 hits: 2.37%
More than 12 hits: 4.78%

Interesting conclusions:

• There is exactly 50% chance of getting less than 6 hits, and 50% chance of getting 6 or more.
• There is the same chance of getting just 1 hit, as there is of getting more than 12 (double the ADs).
• You are 15% likely to get more than 1.5 times the number of ADs.

 

[Locutus9956]

what should be also fairly apparent from that is that there is a reasonalby signifigant chance of all results and not a particularly massive variance in the chance of any one result which is mathematical support for what most of us have already been saying: Beams are TOO random.

Also another interesting conclusion:

Burger has FAR too much spare time :lol:

 

[Da Boss]

fired my young Shadow Ship beam last night 5 times (6 AD)

got 3 hits, 3 hits, 5 hits, 6 hits, 2 hits.............good job my Scouts were working hard and he did not have interceptors.............we also had the usual 9 hits from a 4 dice beam and no hits from same beam

 

[Burger]

Burger has FAR too much spare time :lol:

Yeah, my hand is really aching from rolling 12,003,182 dice!

 

[Morpheus1975]

Burger has FAR too much spare time :lol:

Yeah, my hand is really aching from rolling 12,003,182 dice!

Don't you mean 12,003,182 x 6?

 

[Burger]

Burger has FAR too much spare time :lol:

Yeah, my hand is really aching from rolling 12,003,182 dice!

Don't you mean 12,003,182 x 6?

Nope, 1 million attack rolls of 6 dice, resulted in 12,003,182 total rolls. Interesting that the total number of dice rolls was almost exactly double the AD multiplied by the attacks!

 

[Triggy]

Yeah, my hand is really aching from rolling 12,003,182 dice!

Don't you mean 12,003,182 x 6?

Nope, 1 million attack rolls of 6 dice, resulted in 12,003,182 total rolls. Interesting that the total number of dice rolls was almost exactly double the AD multiplied by the attacks!

Which is of course (statistically speaking) what it should be (one hit and one miss per AD)

 

[Burger]

Which is of course (statistically speaking) what it should be (one hit and one miss per AD)

Right conclusion, but your reasoning is a bit flawed... one hit and one miss per AD would only happen if the hit came before the miss... if the miss came first, you wouldn't get to roll the hit.