Alternate Beams

[GhostRecon]

Having lost many a Marathon, Hyperion, and even a Warlock or two to the fury of high beams from a Thentus, I must give you a... hell no! :?

I'm in the crowd that beams, as they are, feel and play too randomly.

 

[David Anla Shok']

Having lost many a Marathon, Hyperion, and even a Warlock or two to the fury of high beams from a Thentus, I must give you a... hell no! :?

I'm in the crowd that beams, as they are, feel and play too randomly.

You have clearly misinterpreted the meaning of high beams my brother

 

[GhostRecon]

Brain is fried, so excuse me

Still, my statement stands true 8)

 

[Target]

I actually like the way beams work even though mine don't seem to work.
Our group is big in to house rules if we don't like the way things work we change them. We have not altered them at all except taken slow loading of Solar cannons.
We have a altered crit chart which hardly ever adds extra damage which leads me to think this is more where the problem is actually.

 

[ShopKeepJon]

Would someone (who's still up on probability math) be willing to work out the actual probability of rolling specific numbers of hits with a beam weapon.

For a 6 AD weapon - results from 1 million attack rolls. The dice was rolled 12,003,182 times, results being 6,000,443 hits and 6,002,739 misses - very fair dice rolling, I would say!

0 hits: 1.57%
1 hit: 4.65%
2 hits: 8.17%
3 hits: 10.97%
4 hits: 12.28%
5 hits: 12.35%
6 hits: 11.26%
7 hits: 9.69%
8 hits: 7.86%
9 hits: 6.11%
10 hits: 4.59%
11 hits: 3.35%
12 hits: 2.37%
More than 12 hits: 4.78%

Interesting conclusions:

• There is exactly 50% chance of getting less than 6 hits, and 50% chance of getting 6 or more.
• There is the same chance of getting just 1 hit, as there is of getting more than 12 (double the ADs).
• You are 15% likely to get more than 1.5 times the number of ADs.

Thank you for the help. The results are very interesting.

Would you be willing to do the same thing for a couple of the suggested alternative beam rules. Specifically the most recent version of your own suggestion and the one that I suggested a while back. (Roll at 4+ for all dice, then roll 2 additional AD at 4+ for each initial hit. No additional re-rolls. I still think that making the rolls faster would make them less painful to suffer...)

A nearly 5% chance of rolling more than 12 hits is slightly higher than I had expected...

Again, thank you for the help with this,

ShopKeepJon

Pretty please?...

ShopKeepJon

 

[Burger]

Oh, didn't see this til now

A: current beam rules
B: 1-3=0 hits, 4=1 hit, 5=2 hits, 6=3 hits. No rerolls.
C: 1-3=0 hits with a reroll, 4-5=1 hit, 6=2 hits
D: 1-3=0 hits, 4-6=1 hit plus 2 more ADs hitting on 4+
E: 1-2=0 hits, 3-5=1 hit, 6=3 hits. No rerolls.

Note: all of these mechanisms maintain the average hits of 1, so no rebalancing is needed

Hits    A      B      C      D      E
0      1.57   1.55   0.02   1.57   0.14
1      4.65   3.13   0.29   2.36   1.24
2      8.17   5.73   1.62   6.12   4.62
3     10.97   9.48   5.35   8.68   9.69
4     12.28  11.57  12.07  11.79  13.52
5     12.35  13.38  19.33  13.94  15.52
6     11.26  13.76  22.50  13.92  15.90
7      9.69  12.16  19.40  12.89  13.51
8      7.86  10.19  12.06  10.45  10.07
9      6.11   7.62   5.39   7.63   7.31
10     4.59   5.08   1.64   5.03   4.12
11     3.35   3.16   0.29   2.95   2.31
12     2.37   1.74   0.02   1.56   1.30
12+    4.78   1.45   0      1.12   0.74

A has a high chance of getting 12+ hits, and high chance of a low number too.
B and D are virtually identical!
C is very restrictive. You are very unlikely to get less than 3 or more than 9 hits.

I think E is my favourite. You are unlikely to get less than 2 or more than 10, but the potential is still there to get 12+, once in every 150 rolls or so.

 

[David Anla Shok']

These are serious violations of the K.I.S.S. rule!!

 

[ShopKeepJon]

Oh, didn't see this til now

A: current beam rules
B: 1-3=0 hits, 4=1 hit, 5=2 hits, 6=3 hits. No rerolls.
C: 1-3=0 hits with a reroll, 4-5=1 hit, 6=2 hits
D: 1-3=0 hits, 4-6=1 hit plus 2 more ADs hitting on 4+
E: 1-2=0 hits, 3-5=1 hit, 6=3 hits. No rerolls.

Note: all of these mechanisms maintain the average hits of 1, so no rebalancing is needed

A has a high chance of getting 12+ hits, and high chance of a low number too.
B and D are virtually identical!
C is very restrictive. You are very unlikely to get less than 3 or more than 9 hits.

I think E is my favourite. You are unlikely to get less than 2 or more than 10, but the potential is still there to get 12+, once in every 150 rolls or so.

Thanks!

I really don't like the re-roll for C. It makes it a little too predictable.
Between B and D, I think that it would be easier to count up hits with D and you get to roll more dice (and who doesn't like to roll more dice :wink: ).
I agree with you though, E looks easiest to explain/use and it gives a very nice spread.

I like the "I've hit you, now let's see how badly I've hurt you" aspect of D, but E is definitely the K.I.S.S. appropriate one.

If anyone wants to try these, I'd love to hear how they seem to work. :wink:

Unfortunately, we are taking a short hiatus from ACTA and I won't be able to play any games for about two weeks.

ShopKeepJon

 

[greenboy]

Oh, didn't see this til now

A: current beam rules
B: 1-3=0 hits, 4=1 hit, 5=2 hits, 6=3 hits. No rerolls.
C: 1-3=0 hits with a reroll, 4-5=1 hit, 6=2 hits
D: 1-3=0 hits, 4-6=1 hit plus 2 more ADs hitting on 4+
E: 1-2=0 hits, 3-5=1 hit, 6=3 hits. No rerolls.

Note: all of these mechanisms maintain the average hits of 1, so no rebalancing is needed

Hits    A      B      C      D      E
0      1.57   1.55   0.02   1.57   0.14
1      4.65   3.13   0.29   2.36   1.24
2      8.17   5.73   1.62   6.12   4.62
3     10.97   9.48   5.35   8.68   9.69
4     12.28  11.57  12.07  11.79  13.52
5     12.35  13.38  19.33  13.94  15.52
6     11.26  13.76  22.50  13.92  15.90
7      9.69  12.16  19.40  12.89  13.51
8      7.86  10.19  12.06  10.45  10.07
9      6.11   7.62   5.39   7.63   7.31
10     4.59   5.08   1.64   5.03   4.12
11     3.35   3.16   0.29   2.95   2.31
12     2.37   1.74   0.02   1.56   1.30
12+    4.78   1.45   0      1.12   0.74

A has a high chance of getting 12+ hits, and high chance of a low number too.
B and D are virtually identical!
C is very restrictive. You are very unlikely to get less than 3 or more than 9 hits.

I think E is my favourite. You are unlikely to get less than 2 or more than 10, but the potential is still there to get 12+, once in every 150 rolls or so.

How many dice are being rolled ? i'm guessing 6

 

[Burger]

Yep 6, same as before.