Alternate Beams

[Triggy]

Which is of course (statistically speaking) what it should be (one hit and one miss per AD)

Right conclusion, but your reasoning is a bit flawed... one hit and one miss per AD would only happen if the hit came before the miss... if the miss came first, you wouldn't get to roll the hit.

One hit and one miss per AD (doesn't mean each AD gets exactly one hit and one miss).

In fact, you have to have exactly 6 million misses because you have rolled 6 million AD! The number of hits will be random (but roughly 6 million) and randomly distributed amongst the AD though (as you have shown).

 

[Burger]

In fact, you have to have exactly 6 million misses because you have rolled 6 million AD!

...very true ...

 

[David Anla Shok']

Nice work! So now the issue is that beams are "unreliable"? Seems to me that a beam would pretty much be a hit or miss weapon as a rule anyway.. no nice explosions or such.

 

[Da Boss]

That was always the issue...............at least As I understood it from the discussion and everyones comments.........the fact that a Sharlin or a Shadow Ships beam can galnce across a ship for 2 hits whereas a a Tethys slices huge chunks out of a ship..........bit odd really.

normally throwing more dice means you should get more hits than thrwoing less equal dice - but certainly throwing less dice should not exceed the person throwing more dice - often doubling or tripling them in fact..............again bit odd and if your ship only has one gun - quite frustrating....................

 

[David Anla Shok']

That was always the issue...............at least As I understood it from the discussion and everyones comments.........the fact that a Sharlin or a Shadow Ships beam can galnce across a ship for 2 hits whereas a a Tethys slices huge chunks out of a ship..........bit odd really.

normally throwing more dice means you should get more hits than thrwoing less equal dice - but certainly throwing less dice should not exceed the person throwing more dice - often doubling or tripling them in fact..............again bit odd and if your ship only has one gun - quite frustrating....................

Frustrating sometimes, downright hilarious and amusing when it swing the other ways.
What about giving beams a bit of character? Just plain beams are AP, Neutron Lasers are SAP or SDAP (super duper AP) Subsequent rerolls would be at an escalating increment of +1 for each series or rerolls. Sounds familiar, doesn't it?
Should make everyone happy. Less dice over scoring. High hull strengths get more protection. More predictable. ??

 

[Da Boss]

Frustrating sometimes, downright hilarious and amusing when it swing the other ways. ??

Actually not really - they just seemed really crap when we both rolled badly - disapointing and a let down ..........

What about giving beams a bit of character? Just plain beams are AP, Neutron Lasers are SAP or SDAP (super duper AP) Subsequent rerolls would be at an escalating increment of +1 for each series or rerolls. Sounds familiar, doesn't it? Should make everyone happy. Less dice over scoring. High hull strengths get more protection. More predictable. ??

Again no it won't, thats just the old system whic made Hull 4 unplayble........the other ideas on here sound better - not played so don't know yet though..............

 

[David Anla Shok']

Frustrating sometimes, downright hilarious and amusing when it swing the other ways. ??

Actually not really - they just seemed really crap when we both rolled badly - disapointing and a let down ..........

What about giving beams a bit of character? Just plain beams are AP, Neutron Lasers are SAP or SDAP (super duper AP) Subsequent rerolls would be at an escalating increment of +1 for each series or rerolls. Sounds familiar, doesn't it? Should make everyone happy. Less dice over scoring. High hull strengths get more protection. More predictable. ??

Again no it won't, thats just the old system whic made Hull 4 unplayble........the other ideas on here sound better - not played so don't know yet though..............

So we need to cater to Hull 4 ships? Picturing battleships vs PT boats, someones got to lose.

 

[Da Boss]

hmm so why is that old system better than the new proposed system exactly? :?:

 

[David Anla Shok']

hmm so why is that old system better than the new proposed system exactly? :?:

Never said it was

 

[ShopKeepJon]

Would someone (who's still up on probability math) be willing to work out the actual probability of rolling specific numbers of hits with a beam weapon.

For a 6 AD weapon - results from 1 million attack rolls. The dice was rolled 12,003,182 times, results being 6,000,443 hits and 6,002,739 misses - very fair dice rolling, I would say!

0 hits: 1.57%
1 hit: 4.65%
2 hits: 8.17%
3 hits: 10.97%
4 hits: 12.28%
5 hits: 12.35%
6 hits: 11.26%
7 hits: 9.69%
8 hits: 7.86%
9 hits: 6.11%
10 hits: 4.59%
11 hits: 3.35%
12 hits: 2.37%
More than 12 hits: 4.78%

Interesting conclusions:

• There is exactly 50% chance of getting less than 6 hits, and 50% chance of getting 6 or more.
• There is the same chance of getting just 1 hit, as there is of getting more than 12 (double the ADs).
• You are 15% likely to get more than 1.5 times the number of ADs.

Thank you for the help. The results are very interesting.

Would you be willing to do the same thing for a couple of the suggested alternative beam rules. Specifically the most recent version of your own suggestion and the one that I suggested a while back. (Roll at 4+ for all dice, then roll 2 additional AD at 4+ for each initial hit. No additional re-rolls. I still think that making the rolls faster would make them less painful to suffer...)

A nearly 5% chance of rolling more than 12 hits is slightly higher than I had expected...

Again, thank you for the help with this,

ShopKeepJon

 

[Garibaldi]

Hello folks,

As a player who's ships have no beams (Vree) I would like to put in my two cents (or two pence for those of you across the pond) worth on this subject.

Beam weapons are currently set up to need a 4. That is the way it works currently. I mean no offense when I say this...REALLY!! OK??

DEAL WITH IT!

Most people who have beams just accept the way they work. Do you think that I like having so many hull 4 ships?? Do you think I like having my torpedo range reduced from 30" to 25"?? Do you think I like slow-loading torpedoes?? Do you think I like having eggshell level damages??Hell no!!

However, that is the way it is. There you go. Like I said "DEAL WITH IT!"

Again, I mean no offense to anyone. REALLY, I don't!! I know this is a forum and that people talk about the game and rules and proposed changes...I get that.

It just seems to me (and I think I'm not the only one) that everyone complains too damm much about this or that...It's life folks!

Thanks for allowing me to vent!! (sigh...) I feel better!

Thus endith the rant.

P.S. Again...not trying to offend/piss off folks!

 

[dag'karlove]

Hello folks,

As a player who's ships have no beams (Vree) I would like to put in my two cents (or two pence for those of you across the pond) worth on this subject.

Beam weapons are currently set up to need a 4. That is the way it works currently. I mean no offense when I say this...REALLY!! OK??

DEAL WITH IT!

Most people who have beams just accept the way they work. Do you think that I like having so many hull 4 ships?? Do you think I like having my torpedo range reduced from 30" to 25"?? Do you think I like slow-loading torpedoes?? Do you think I like having eggshell level damages??Hell no!!

However, that is the way it is. There you go. Like I said "DEAL WITH IT!"

Again, I mean no offense to anyone. REALLY, I don't!! I know this is a forum and that people talk about the game and rules and proposed changes...I get that.

It just seems to me (and I think I'm not the only one) that everyone complains too damm much about this or that...It's life folks!

Thanks for allowing me to vent!! (sigh...) I feel better!

Thus endith the rant.

P.S. Again...not trying to offend/piss off folks!

Here Here. I may Buy YOu a beer after saturdays Game.

 

[Ripple]

I guess I have to say the same thing back (also not trying to piss anyone off)...

This is a forum, people come here to discuss their battles, tactics, models and WHAT THEY WANT THE GAME TO BE!

We know the game will continue to change (they have to sell new books, easier to do with new editions), so why not get your comments in? If you don't speak up you have no right to complain if something in the new edition isn't exactly what you want. You had your chance between new editions to comment. I don't want to miss any chance to influence the game I love as it changes. I certainly don't want to have to blame myself if something changes in a way I think is bad because I didn't speak up.

Same as the rest of life, if you just sit back and do nothing you have to just accept what you get. Actively seek change and you might get some.

Just because it's a game doesn't mean you shouldn't try to get what you want out of it.

Ripple

 

[skavendan]

here here Ripple talkes some sense there.

Put my hand up for a Mothership for Psi Corps which isn't so "uncarrier like" shall we say? I really do not like it stating 7 in the entire Psi Corps fleet and it being a lowly raid level.

 

[Garibaldi]

Ripple,


I'm quite all right with people saying what they would like to see, changed, etc. No problem...REALLY! It's just when I read some (note: SOME) postings in this forum, it's like I'm hearing my 6 year old whining! (I love that girl!)

Lets all just try to keep the whining to a minimum...please!? I get so much from my daughter!

NOTE: I said whining...not discussion, not possible rule changes...just whining!

[/u]

 

[ShopKeepJon]

Actually most of this thread has been discussion. Very few of the people here are whining. Go check out the poll on whether or not people play "as is" or with a lot of house rules. Most of us play "as is." No one is advocating an immediate change, just that we should look at the alternatives.

Basically, what we're saying is that we think parts of the game could be better. The more input Mongoose gets on these things, the more likely any future edition will be better.

Ripple has got it exactly right here.

ShopKeepJon

 

[ShopKeepJon]

As for the Vree being neutered, as someone who has had his as... um... has lost resoundingly to the Vree, my opinion is that you haven't been complaining because you have very little to complain about... :wink:

ShopKeepJon

 

[David Anla Shok']

here here Ripple talkes some sense there.
.

Well, that does happen, on occasion...

 

[Ripple]

Hey!

I often talk sense... the fact that certain strange mountain cults can't see it doesn't change the reality...

Ripple

 

[David Anla Shok']

Hey!

I often talk sense... the fact that certain strange mountain cults can't see it doesn't change the reality...

Ripple

Often? Optimist. Often enough for us to hold out some hope for you. As for our " strange mountain cult", at least WE all agree on the beauty of high beams. May I have an amen on that, gents?