Allocation of Damage Dice

[cordas]

It says in the shooting section that damage dice are allocated starting with the highest dice roll to closest and then so on untill all models in the FZ have a DD, then you are free to allocate any remaining damage dice to models as you see fit.

Who gets to allocate the spare DD, the shooter or the defender?

Say there are 4 (2 grunts, 1 team leader and 1 mg) models in the FZ and 6 successful DD, 1 is given to each leaving 2 spare DD. If its the defender he could allocate 1 to each grunt, or even reading the rule both to 1 grunt. If its the attacker could he allocate 1 to the TL and 1 to the MG, or even both to the TL. Personally I don't like the idea of stacking the spare DD onto 1 model as that just seems wrong, but the rules read to me that this is possible, the question is who is the "you" the shooter of the defender?

 

[127th Angry Angels]

I've always read this as the attacker assigning dice. They roll them so seem to be the owners of the result as such. Just the way we've been playing it though.

 

[Mr Evil]

you apply high dice to closest modles first and then move back

 

[cordas]

I've always read this as the attacker assigning dice. They roll them so seem to be the owners of the result as such. Just the way we've been playing it though.

I agree with that (although coming from a GW back ground...... ), what about the stacking of dice?

 

[Mr Evil]

once all modles in firezone and los have recieved a dice a seconf dice is put on each and so on till you run out, so guys in the front are lkly to be hit more than guys at the back

 

[cordas]

once all modles in firezone and los have recieved a dice a seconf dice is put on each and so on till you run out, so guys in the front are lkly to be hit more than guys at the back

then you are free to allocate any remaining damage dice to models as you see fit.

I would say that allows you place the spare DD where ever you want, not from front to back. I would suppose this acounts for the fact that certain models will be seen as being more important to take down do can be marked out, if you have enough successfull DD.

My question is who allocates the dice? - It seems the Attacker.

and can you stack more than 1 DD on a model to make sure the bleeder dies, without wrapping the dice round the viable targets again? I also suppose if you are wrapping dice around you should be able to discount kill results for this purpose.

 

[cordas]

Another question on the same subject.

When do bonus DD from explosive weapons (such as grenades and tank shells) get worked into the equation? As they have a 1inch lethal zone its very easy to kill any models with the LZ with fire from your shooting.

Should you deal with the explosive weapon's fire 1st, then its explosion DD, and then the rest of the shooting? If not then explosive weapons become a lot lot weaker.

 

[Elvis in Combat]

My question is who allocates the dice? - It seems the Attacker.

I don't understand how this is even questionable? I'm not trying to be snarky, I am slow sometimes and don't understand how it cannot be anyone but the shooter allocating the dice. It's the shooter rolling the damage dice. There is not change with the object in the following sentences to indicate that the allocation of dice has passed to the opponent. It's wordy but not unclear, to me using my basic english anyway.

and can you stack more than 1 DD on a model to make sure the bleeder dies, without wrapping the dice round the viable targets again?

You quoted the answer from the rules in a previous post yourself:

If all models within the Fire Zone have been allocated a Damage Dice, then you are free to allocate any remaining Damage Dice to models as you see fit.

That's a clear statement as to what you may do with the dice against the models within the firezone after the first wrap.

I also suppose if you are wrapping dice around you should be able to discount kill results for this purpose.

The highest scoring Damage Dice must be allocated to the nearest model

Kill shots go to the closest models first, they are the highest DD. If every model in a unit is allocated a killshot in the inital wrap, the question is then moot as there won't be any models left.

 

[Paladin]

Another question on the same subject.

When do bonus DD from explosive weapons (such as grenades and tank shells) get worked into the equation? As they have a 1inch lethal zone its very easy to kill any models with the LZ with fire from your shooting.

Should you deal with the explosive weapon's fire 1st, then its explosion DD, and then the rest of the shooting? If not then explosive weapons become a lot lot weaker.

I'm not sure of the official answer but we roll the big die and the other dice for MGs at the same time. Based on the roll we determine where the RPG lands in terms of roll results. It's normally at the front, but whereever it lands, bonus dice are immediately rolled and allocated where applicable and then the other dice are allocated after the RPG is resolved.

ie. 3 MGs D6 and 1 RPG D10+2
Roll 6, 6, 4 for the MG
Roll 3+2 = 5 for the RPG

The RPG would hit the 3rd enemy model. If a splash damage die is allocate to model 4, then the 3rd MG dice is allocated to unit 5.

 

[cordas]

I don't understand how this is even questionable? I'm not trying to be snarky

Its questionable because some people will argue it. Its also an issue with kill dice, not in BF Evo yet but in SST Evo which uses the same rules pamphlet there are models that require multipul kill results to kill, and other models that get a save even after kill results, so being able to apply more DD to these is relevant.

You would also be suprised by the amount of times our group of gamers has read something obvious half a dozen times and thought it said 1 thing, then re-read it later (or seen a post here regarding it) that has changed our interpretation completly.

 

[Xorrandor]

I think the only question in the rules is the one of secondary damage dice, like the grenades and so forth. While Paladin's example is one possible interpretation, the other would be that the original dice are allocated as normal, and then the blast effects go off: this means more dice will be allocated to the models near the blast. I would be inclined to allow the blast-user the benefit of the doubt (i.e. use Paladin's approach), merely because blast effects seem to be rare enough as it is: people generally spread their models out so 1" blasts are unlikely to be effective, and the 2" blast from tank guns are extremely likely to be coupled with a large damage value, moving the blast center point to the closest model and thereby removing half of the blast area. Or, if they're too close, damaging your own guys. That's just my opinion, though.

On the original question, I agree that the attacker gets to allocate extra dice. This seems pretty clear from the rules, but someone can always misread, or remember the old SST rules (which have already been quoted here once, after all...). If you must have a fluff reason: after you've sprayed the entire area with fire, you've also had enough time to assess where the real dangers are, and allocate extra fire accordingly. And since you don't get to see armor rolls before allocating the extra damage dice (I assume), there is some element of choice here.

Finally, remember the wording on MG double suppression: every model must have two damage dice allocated. So it doesn't matter if you get nine dice on a three man fire team: if one of the men (hopefully the corporal...) is hiding behind a building, the team is only single-suppressed. And if you only get six dice on a three man team in the open, you have to choose between making sure that gunner on the other side is DEAD DEAD DEAD, or double-suppressing everyone.

 

[Paladin]

Finally, remember the wording on MG double suppression: every model must have two damage dice allocated. So it doesn't matter if you get nine dice on a three man fire team: if one of the men (hopefully the corporal...) is hiding behind a building, the team is only single-suppressed. And if you only get six dice on a three man team in the open, you have to choose between making sure that gunner on the other side is DEAD DEAD DEAD, or double-suppressing everyone.

Not sure I agree with that. That seems like it's reading more into it than intended. The basic rules treat the application of damage dice for suppression as against the whole squad not each model.

 

[Xorrandor]

Finally, remember the wording on MG double suppression: every model must have two damage dice allocated. So it doesn't matter if you get nine dice on a three man fire team: if one of the men (hopefully the corporal...) is hiding behind a building, the team is only single-suppressed. And if you only get six dice on a three man team in the open, you have to choose between making sure that gunner on the other side is DEAD DEAD DEAD, or double-suppressing everyone.

Not sure I agree with that. That seems like it's reading more into it than intended. The basic rules treat the application of damage dice for suppression as against the whole squad not each model.

Agreed about the rules, but the rules also provide no way of double-suppressing with a single action. The special rules for MGs do, but those also explicitly say that two or more Damage Dice must be assigned to each model. If the language was ambiguous, then sure I'd treat it the same way as regular suppression, but it isn't.

 

[Elvis in Combat]

Agreed about the rules, but the rules also provide no way of double-suppressing with a single action. The special rules for MGs do, but those also explicitly say that two or more Damage Dice must be assigned to each model. If the language was ambiguous, then sure I'd treat it the same way as regular suppression, but it isn't.

If you would be so kind as to point to where in the MG special rule one is allowed to allocate damage dice to models, then I would be greatly appreciative. It clearly doesn't do so here:

If every model in the target unit is assigned two or more Damage Dice when this weapon is used, the unit will lose two actions from Suppression, rather than just one.

It starts with "If" implying it's possible but "If" doesn't specifically allow it.

:shock: Ah, I see it now. Mongoose is using "If" as some sort of rule allowance. OK, that's odd but makes sense when viewed with an unpublished but known intent.

Is there an unpublished Advanced Rule it's refering to maybe? :wink:

 

[Xorrandor]

If you would be so kind as to point to where in the MG special rule one is allowed to allocate damage dice to models, then I would be greatly appreciative. It clearly doesn't do so here:

If every model in the target unit is assigned two or more Damage Dice when this weapon is used, the unit will lose two actions from Suppression, rather than just one.

You are given a choice in where to allocate Damage Dice, once every model in the Fire Zone has been allocated a single one. This is in the basic rules. So, for my example of 6 Damage Dice against a three man fire team, you could allocate 4 dice to one model and 1 to each of the other two, or 2 dice to each model. In the first case you might get a higher chance of killing the target model (although not likely, since the 3 highest Damage Dice have to target different models) while single-suppressing the unit, in the second case you double-suppress the unit.

 

[Mr Evil]

you guys make my head hurt !!

 

[Elvis in Combat]

You are given a choice in where to allocate Damage Dice, once every model in the Fire Zone has been allocated a single one. This is in the basic rules. So, for my example of 6 Damage Dice against a three man fire team, you could allocate 4 dice to one model and 1 to each of the other two, or 2 dice to each model. In the first case you might get a higher chance of killing the target model (although not likely, since the 3 highest Damage Dice have to target different models) while single-suppressing the unit, in the second case you double-suppress the unit.

Thanks for the info. I was keeping "shooting" separate from "supression". I wasn't aware that the untitled "allocation" in "shooting" section applied to suppression. I wasn't reading the combination of both sections into the MG Special Rule. I'll have to remember to do that in the future. Reading it like that it comes together for me now. Thanks.

This combination of segments of rules in one section applying to another makes my head hurt. Kind of like reading a Mr. evil post! :lol: :lol: :lol:

Still better than most games so I hurt less with this one! :wink: :lol:

 

[Redeemer31]

you guys make my head hurt !!

I know, it took me awhile to wrap my head around it too. At least I'm giving my brain a good workout!

MP, *please* include an ample amount of examples in the upcoming rulebook!

 

[Dorb]

Anyone use different colored dice for different weapons?

 

[Paladin]

Anyone use different colored dice for different weapons?

yup. standard rifles, grenade launchers and SAWs all have their own.