Advanced Jump Point as weapon: possible fix?

[emperorpenguin]

Chernobyl,

You are correct....your two examples are in the tv movies...NOT the series. I agree that those incidents happen...however this game is based on the series...not the tv movies.

ArmBarred,

This tactic is valid. No, it is not worse than e-mines...however, it makes a extra weapon that few ships can use. also withing the rules. My opinion is that this "weapon" (for lack of a better term) violates the spirit of the game. And about you not seeing it yield damage on evern hull 3 ships...well...you should have been me once. Two jump points opening on a shadow war level ship...killed it! Boom. over. No chance to evade, shoot back anything. Wrong!

Pauly_D,

Yes, it is within the rules and a viable tactic. And it is a loophole. So, since it is allowed, that would mean that my Vree can jam shadows ships...(Vree are telepaths, telepaths can jam shadows ships...so what if its against the intent of the rules...in a loophole right?)

My 6 cents worth...(3 people addressed...2 cents each...getting expensive!)

Sorry Garibaldi, though I share your dislike of AJP over-use this game IS based just as much on the films as the series.
And e-mines are not anywhere near as bad as jump points! how could you possibly think so!? :shock:

 

[Garibaldi]

I get confused and excited easyly....sorry...

Work with me here....i'm on a roll...doesn't happen very often.

 

[armbarred]

I don't think it is worse than emines, just along the same lines. Emines are a weapon few have access to. They ignore dodge, and hit multiple ships in the same salvo.

I don't think it is a loophole. I don't think it is exploited, I think it is used when it is intended to. I have had JPs opened on my WS's before... and it sucks alot. But I deal with it. I've learned not to group my ships so close, I might take damage to one or two but that is something I can live with.

Like I said before, it is viable. I don't see it as a loophole at all. And I don't think it is at all against the spirit of the game... it seems to me to be wholly within the concept and spirit. Lightning fast strikes, expert use of maneuverability and advantages. I don't see it as over-used or exploited, but as I said that is my opinion.

 

[Matt]

i like the idea it woude limit the use off JP as a wepon and since i dont see em as a standard wepon i think that is a good thing

JP case dmg to ship at one time in seson 5 i think drakh ships and in the movie ITB

 

[MarkNorfolk]

edited because I didn't read the second page.

D'oh.

Cheers
Idiot

 

[Majinga]

This was and is a BAD rule.

PPl state the 2 possible instences in the series/films when such an event occures.

I say this
If its such a valuble tactic why dosent every race that can use it USE IT EVERY TIME THEY FIGHT?

Clearly they dont (within the logic of the B5 universe) whats more no one ever discusses it as a viable tactic. Therefore the 2 instences must be reguarded as fluks and either a. opening a jump gate neer to a ship dosent cause damage in most circumstances or b. doing so is very dangerouse to the ship creating the jp.

Scrap the rule in its entiaraty .

 

[frobisher]

This was and is a BAD rule.

PPl state the 2 possible instences in the series/films when such an event occures.

I say this
If its such a valuble tactic why dosent every race that can use it USE IT EVERY TIME THEY FIGHT?

Clearly they dont (within the logic of the B5 universe) whats more no one ever discusses it as a viable tactic. Therefore the 2 instences must be reguarded as fluks and either a. opening a jump gate neer to a ship dosent cause damage in most circumstances or b. doing so is very dangerouse to the ship creating the jp.

Scrap the rule in its entiaraty .

That was B5Wars approach (basically as it would have been munchkined...).

You'll note that the ships that use it are either a) Minbari (and an Elite Minbari War Cruiser at that...) or b) Victory Class Destroyers (based on Minbari technology).

In both cases it was very deliberately done as an agressive move (the former case the Black Star had a spotter in normal space, and in the later case they were entering hyperspace surrounded by ships so the hunting was good.

 

[anton970]

I think its a good idea, its a an intresting situation to be in, in a torney no holds barred fair enough we're all ther for one reason to win!

In a normal game not as much, spank your opponent with the jump gate rule and they'll just won't bother playing you!

as regards to the "it doesn't happen on the telly stuff" yea right what ever! :lol:

 

[emperorpenguin]

In both cases it was very deliberately done as an agressive move (the former case the Black Star had a spotter in normal space, and in the later case they were entering hyperspace surrounded by ships so the hunting was good.

In fact the Drala Fi was the only ship to use a jump point from hyperspace to realspace as a weapon.
The Victory incident was where the Drakh ships got caught in a collapsing realspace to hyperspace vortex, the danger of which was first mooted back in "Signs and Portents" when Sinclair warns Ivanova not to chase the raider strike ship in case they get caught in the "backwash" of the jump point.
Clearly being hit with an opening or collapsing jump point hurts a lot and shouldn't be dodged, however it's not a common tactic ans should require a forward scout.
Also on the subject of jump points, unless I'm very much mistaken a crippled ship with a functioning jump engine can still safely enter hyperspace. For those who remember the narn cruiser in "and now for a word" shouldn't they need to roll say a 4+ to successfully enter hyperspace otherwise the vortex collapses?

 

[armbarred]

I think the roll is figured into keeping the jump engines online.

And while we only see it in two instances, if I remember correctly, it is mentioned several times as something that happens in the novels also. And they are all considered part of canon.

 

[Morgoth]

I don't think it is worse than emines, just along the same lines. Emines are a weapon few have access to. They ignore dodge, and hit multiple ships in the same salvo.

.

yes the narn have e-mines ( and one brakiri ship) but they have been severely reduced (no crits and -1 on damage dice), plus the narn's heavy beams and mostly boresight ones and not front arc etc - balances out

 

[emperorpenguin]

I think the roll is figured into keeping the jump engines online.
.

but if you do keep them online then you jump safely.
if you fail you can't jump. there's no possibility of a jump point collapsing as happened in season 2

 

[armbarred]

I think the extra roll would just complicate things more. This game is supposed to be simple and fast. The more detailed we try to make it, the slower it becomes and then it begins to lose appeal to a lot of people.

 

[Target]

It wouldn't really as how often to ships actually get to jump out when crippled. They generally destroyed before they can make it.
You wouldn't have to roll if a healthy ship opened the JP.
Have used a Corvan to open a JP so my primus could escape destruction from the Mimbari and did this a round early because i new that the primus was in a lot trouble and needed its 5+ save instead of opening JP. this way it got to fire back.

 

[Pauly_D]

It wouldn't really as how often to ships actually get to jump out when crippled. They generally destroyed before they can make it.
You wouldn't have to roll if a healthy ship opened the JP.
Have used a Corvan to open a JP so my primus could escape destruction from the Mimbari and did this a round early because i new that the primus was in a lot trouble and needed its 5+ save instead of opening JP. this way it got to fire back.

that is a good idea because the ship that opens the Jump point cant shoot on that turn so if a weak ship opens the JP then it doesnt matter that it cant fire

 

[lastbesthope]

How many tournement scenarios are there that allow players to keep a significant number of ships in Hyperspace?

Only 1 of the 3, Space Superiority, half your ships may be kept in hyperspace for that scenario.

I think the roll is figured into keeping the jump engines online.

And while we only see it in two instances, if I remember correctly, it is mentioned several times as something that happens in the novels also. And they are all considered part of canon.

Not all the novels are canon, only the 3 trilogies and number 9 are definitely canon. Number 7 is considered mostly canon. I'm guessing that the movie novelisations are canon, the rest are not (1-6, 8).

LBH

 

[emperorpenguin]

How many tournement scenarios are there that allow players to keep a significant number of ships in Hyperspace?

Only 1 of the 3, Space Superiority, half your ships may be kept in hyperspace for that scenario.

LBH

It's all 3, he asked how many tournament scenarios allow it

 

[lastbesthope]

It's all 3, he asked how many tournament scenarios allow it

My bad, I thought we'd crossed into discussing them under normal scenario rules.


Hey, I'm tired

LBH
(See I fess up when I'm wrong :lol: )

 

[emperorpenguin]

(See I fess up when I'm wrong :lol: )

me too I realised I was wrong about technomages

 

[lastbesthope]

I know, I just saw. I just didn't want you thinking I was persecutinng you and not owning up to my own mistakes.

LBH
(In desperate need of sleep if he is to collect his scriptbook in the morning)