Advanced Jump Point as weapon: possible fix?

[Shadowfax]

This is why I think the simple fix for the AJP bomb is a crew quality check for each AJP that could do damage. The AJP will only do damage 25% of the time and make people think twice before droping them down as bombs. I have used this technique with both balance and success. Once again this is cannon and balanced, not a hard fix. I do not see what the problem is. Other special actions require crew quality checks why not jump point bombs?

 

[frobisher]

FURTHERMORE the entire movie ITB is nothing more than a story being told my Londo so the fact that we NEVER see the tactic used except in a story being told by a third party who didnt see the actual event shows how little weight it should carry.

I hate to break it to you, but that's not so...

The story is what happened, Londo's framing narration is a dramatic device. There is nothing to cast any doubt onto the veracity of the events we see (and that includes any contradictions with early established on screen canon - after all the Minbari have two castes after all )

 

[Tal Hawkins]

FURTHERMORE the entire movie ITB is nothing more than a story being told my Londo so the fact that we NEVER see the tactic used except in a story being told by a third party who didnt see the actual event shows how little weight it should carry.

I hate to break it to you, but that's not so...

The story is what happened, Londo's framing narration is a dramatic device. There is nothing to cast any doubt onto the veracity of the events we see (and that includes any contradictions with early established on screen canon - after all the Minbari have two castes after all )

The movie is framed by his story at the beginning and end. Dramatic device or not that would make the movie his interpretation of events.

That does not matter anyway. The AJP weapon scene from the movie was a very narrow specific situation nothing at all like the uber-bomb that everyone keeps making it out to be.

 

[Target]

Why does a jp have more range than a standard fighter weapon range, thats a bit weird.

 

[lastbesthope]

I dunno, the ItB demonstration of AJP seemed pretty effective to me :lol:

LBH

What part of in a very specific situation did you not read?

Chill dude, or at least put a smiley, which part of your own post did you not read?

The rules allow the AJP ability be used much more effectively than the show ever demonstrates.

The effectiveness of the AJP tactic in ItB is pretty high, as i commented on that aspect of your post, I have never denied it was a specific situation, obviously it is, as we only reallysee it done once in all of B%, but if it can be done once, it can be done multiple times.

FURTHERMORE the entire movie ITB is nothing more than a story being told my Londo so the fact that we NEVER see the tactic used except in a story being told by a third party who didnt see the actual event shows how little weight it should carry.

I hate to break it to you, but that's not so...

The story is what happened, Londo's framing narration is a dramatic device. There is nothing to cast any doubt onto the veracity of the events we see (and that includes any contradictions with early established on screen canon - after all the Minbari have two castes after all )

The movie is framed by his story at the beginning and end. Dramatic device or not that would make the movie his interpretation of events.

That does not matter anyway. The AJP weapon scene from the movie was a very narrow specific situation nothing at all like the uber-bomb that everyone keeps making it out to be.

I'm with Frobi on this one, the story of the Black Star incident was mentioned in B5 way before we ever saw it in ItB, seeing it in ItB was the payoff for the fans. Sheridan recounted his side of the Starkiller incident at least once, I suspect reasonably early in Season 2 but I can't remember right now.

LBH

 

[Target]

The effectiveness of the AJP tactic in ItB is pretty high, as i commented on that aspect of your post, I have never denied it was a specific situation, obviously it is, as we only reallysee it done once in all of B%, but if it can be done once, it can be done multiple times.

It was done by the best crew the Mimbari had.
The tactic is never mentioned or seen again.
If it was so easy why is this the case.
It would seem to suggest there is a high degree of difficulty involved.
In game terms would give it CQ check of 11 so stock standard miltary class crew couldn't achieve it.
Best left for campaigns are my thought.

 

[Matt]

It was done by the best crew the Mimbari had.
The tactic is never mentioned or seen again.
If it was so easy why is this the case.
It would seem to suggest there is a high degree of difficulty involved.
In game terms would give it CQ check of 11 so stock standard miltary class crew couldn't achieve it.
Best left for campaigns are my thought.

yeah leav it to campains

i think using at a standard wepon is just wrong

 

[lastbesthope]

I'd be interested in your justification for it being only available in campaigns and not one off battles.

Alyt: "Crewman, open a Jump Point next to those Hyperions!"
Crewman: "Sorry sirm, this is juat a one off skirmish, we can only do that when we're at war sir!"
Alyt : "Get the hell off my bridsge you religious caste coward!"

:lol:

LBH

 

[Chernobyl]

hmm...what if...only elite crews can use it? (CQ6) otherwise it scatters like a normal jump point?

Chern

 

[Target]

I'd be interested in your justification for it being only available in campaigns and not one off battles.

Alyt: "Crewman, open a Jump Point next to those Hyperions!"
Crewman: "Sorry sirm, this is juat a one off skirmish, we can only do that when we're at war sir!"
Alyt : "Get the hell off my bridsge you religious caste coward!"

:lol:

LBH

Because in one off battles the crew are all miltary grade not Veterans or Elites therefore couldn't get to 11 CQ.

 

[lastbesthope]

Because in one off battles the crew are all miltary grade not Veterans or Elites therefore couldn't get to 11 CQ.

Not if the players decide otherwise, and the ISA would be a standard CQ 5 in a one off, due to their +1 CQ bonus.

LBH

 

[Elessar]

I disagree

In episodes about minbari/humans war humans where unable to protect any target, talking of ships suddenly appearing , shooting and leaving helpless soldiers dying in space

The rules give to all players to find opportunities to balance any oponent's tactics

For our group of players, the Centauri are the stronger of all "races"
But we are new and perhaps, one day will we think differently

 

[Target]

Not if the players decide otherwise, and the ISA would be a standard CQ 5 in a one off, due to their +1 CQ bonus.

LBH

That would be fine as they still have to roll a 6 to achieve the JP weapon.
AJP is still a massive advantage with not deviating and being able to fire.
Compare that to scatter 2-12 in any direction and can't fire.
The Tactical advantage is huge.
Im trying to reach some middle ground as my group place JP at the start of movement and damage will only result if you can'y get out of the way or take it so you can get a boresight or move into range to fire.
It works really well.
I agree with Elessar about the Centauri as in our campaign they haven't lost a fight. They have been fighting mainly Mimbari and EA.
We are thinking of making the Primus hull 5 but haven't tested this yet.

 

[lastbesthope]

Not if the players decide otherwise, and the ISA would be a standard CQ 5 in a one off, due to their +1 CQ bonus.

LBH

That would be fine as they still have to roll a 6 to achieve the JP weapon.

But then you have the problem that with a standard base CQ of 4 (ISA 5) then only ISA could puill of AJP in a one off, which seems unfair to me.

LBH

 

[Target]

A 1 in 6 chance can't be that unfair.
AJP is the unfair part.
Being able to kill a ship before it even moves thats unfair.
The some people want to do what the blackstar does.
I think it's total cheese but thats just me.
AJP has enough advantages without destroying hapless patrol and skirmish ships with no defense against it.
It a little over the top.
Being able fire is fine , no scatter compared to 2d6 a little one sided but then using it as weapon in open space.
Do really think its a fair rule?

 

[Pirate PB]

I've said it before and I'll say it again - the advantage you get from AJP is positional plus the ability to fire on the turn of entry. The damage is just unbalancing, plain and simple.