Adaptive armour

[Marco Raimeous]

Ok I have been thinking about the whole AA is way more than double and found it to be flawed. I actually think it closer to 2.1 perhit of damage or less and this is why.

Damage taken = effectivness of AA (2.0 being normal)
1 = 1.0 goes right through AA
2 = 2.0
3 = 3.0 (all go back to one)
4 = 2.0 (working the way it should)
5 = 2.5 (2 + 3 / 2) the mean (2 damage soaked normally, 3 soaked by one)
6 = 2.0
7 = 2.333 (2 + 2 + 3 / 3) the mean
8 = 2.0
9 = 2.25
10 = 2.0

This is just up to ten but as you can see as you get higher up the average gets closer and closer to being a simple 2.0 like adaptive armour should be. If you take the average up to ten it is 2.108, if you take the average to five it is 2.1. If you don't understand the math I can explain it but it is mathematically sound.

 

[l33tpenguin]

Ok I have been thinking about the whole AA is way more than double and found it to be flawed. I actually think it closer to 2.1 perhit of damage or less and this is why.

Damage taken = effectivness of AA
1 = 1.0 goes right through AA
2 = 2.0
3 = 3.0 (all go back to one)
4 = 2.0 (working the way it should)
5 = 2.5 (2 + 3 / 2) the mean (2 damage soaked normally, 3 soaked by one)
6 = 2.0
7 = 2.333 (2 + 2 + 3 / 3) the mean
8 = 2.0
9 = 2.25
10 = 2.0

This is just up to ten but as you can see as you get higher up the average gets closer and closer to being a simple 2.0 like adaptive armour should be. If you take the average up to ten it is 2.108, if you take the average to five it is 2.1. If you don't understand the math I can explain it but it is mathematically sound.

So, basiclly, if you are going to hit something with AA, you want to hit it HARD. Or... with single damage hits... Between 3-7 damage the AA is more likely to be most effective.

 

[lastbesthope]

Basically adaptive armour is more effective against an odd number of damage than an even number, as the number of damage caused goes up, the effect of rounding is lessened.

It is what it is, let's face it you never get a penalty for inflicting more damage in a single attack on a White Star, youmight not get additional gains, but it never hurts to throw more dice at it.

LBH

 

[katadder]

except alot of weapons only cause upto around 5 damage if that against WSs cos of dodge. all fighters usually only cause around 1 each and with the number of fighters that brings AA right down especially as fighters are the ISAs weakness.

 

[Marco Raimeous]

Well basically this came up because there was a discussion about how good AA really is and some said that for every damage point, AA actually gave and additional 1.4 damage, not 1 damage. Even if most shots range within the first 5 hits where it is most effective, it is still 2.1 average per every AA damage which is what it is basically supposed to be.

So when someone says "AA gives you way more than just double damage." refer them to the math behind it.

 

[Marco Raimeous]

And this was most as a rebuttle to Vorlons damage thresholds being where they are. Perhap being a bit too high but not crazy high at all.

 

[Burger]

It's a meaningless number. AA is more effective against odd damage, and less effective against lots of small attacks. Its effectiveness depends on the opponent you are facing and their tactics (splitting weapons fire for example).

 

[Marco Raimeous]

This is true and the only reason I put it up was because our group was trying to figure out how much damage vorlon ships have when accounting for their AA.

It was thought to be just a basic double for some time making ships like the vorlon destroyer with 35 damage with AA, basically 70 damage normal.

One of our group member then felt because of the odd numbers rounding down it would be closer to 2.4 damage for every 1 AA damage point. This would put that same destroyer at ~84 damage.

That seemed a bit fishy so I did the math.

You are absolutely right though, in a game situation AA effectiveness completely depends on the strategies used. (eg. Vorlons hate precise weapons more than anything) This system was just used to compare Vorlon damage to other races damage at the same PL.

 

[Joe_Dracos]

This is a poor formula to represnt the effectiveness of AA.

You should take weapons from the game and use them as a model.

an 8 AD Twin Linked Double damage weapon will cause 11 damage before Adaptive armour.

a 4 AD beam double damage weapon will cause 7 or 8 (assume 8)

a 6 AD double damage AP weapon will case 6

an 8 attack dice twin linked weapon will cause 5

6 AD super AP precise will cause 3

6 AD AP Triple damage will cause 9

Damage results will commonly be between 3 and 11 for a Hull 5 ship with AA. The more variation between AD and triats cause the number to rise, especially when even on battle level ships 4 AD and 6 AD weapons are frighteningly common. Look through the book and pick a bunch of weapons and then ROLL dice multiple times for each weapon.

 

[Lord David the Denied]

What is this obsession with maths on this forum? AA halves damage taken, it doesn't change the ship's damage value. You don't need to do any complex calculations to "account for AA," it's accounted for already. As are interceptors, dodge and any other trait that affects the damage taken by a ship when attacked!

 

[skavendan]

Also games don't work on averages my 15 hits from a 2AD beam! so ya know I don't see it either as a single thing AA isn't over powering however when you start stacking defenses it is.

 

[l33tpenguin]

What is this obsession with maths on this forum? AA halves damage taken, it doesn't change the ship's damage value. You don't need to do any complex calculations to "account for AA," it's accounted for already. As are interceptors, dodge and any other trait that affects the damage taken by a ship when attacked!

What's wrong with letting people do a little math and figure some things out and discuss them? And yes, you can do some basic math and get an approximation of the 'damage added' by AA, because it represents approximately the amount of actual damage required to destroy a ship. The same can be done, on an average, with dodge and interceptors. Its to give an idea of how well two ships compare.

Never tell someone they can't do something, especially in regards to speech, provided that what they are saying isn't detrimental to someone.

 

[Marco Raimeous]

@ Joe Draco

The table that I made does not measure AD, it measures damage taken, 1-10 damage taken so you may have a 3AD weapon that hits once and AA takes one damage (effeciveness of 1.0). That is what it measures and that happens very often, also with all the 1 damage criticals it happens even more. DD weapons will always be an even amount of damage so it will alway half evenly.[/quote]

 

[Marco Raimeous]

Damage results will commonly be between 3 and 11 for a Hull 5 ship with AA.

hmmm..... I notice that you start and end on odd numbers, be realistic. Most damage taken will be in the range of 1-10 and most of those between 1-5. As stated before, in these realms AA is working the way it should. I can do the math for you.

I don't see it either as a single thing AA isn't over powering however when you start stacking defenses it is.

True, like the WS gunship which is crazy good. So this is a problem with the ISA fleet, not Vorlons.

 

[katadder]

the WS gunship may have many defenses but it also has what 20 damage at hull 5? on a battle level hull and only foreward fireing weapons.

ok the 20 damage is worth more because of dodge/AA but lose one of those traits through a lucky crit and suddenly it looks alot more fragile

 

[Joe_Dracos]

the WS gunship may have many defenses but it also has what 20 damage at hull 5? on a battle level hull and only foreward fireing weapons.

ok the 20 damage is worth more because of dodge/AA but lose one of those traits through a lucky crit and suddenly it looks alot more fragile

Yeah, I've actually seen the WS gunship in action... its not all its cracked up to be. One solid hit and its in trouble. Besides, with WS ships you don't kill the ship, you kill the crew. not to mention that every crit is paralyzing to one degree or another.

 

[skavendan]

katadder : a lucky crit and suddenly it looks alot more fragile

Of course but you have to get through dodge/AA/CBD's I love how there perfect for it only 2 weapons!

Joe_Dracos : its not all its cracked up to be. One solid hit and its in trouble.

Yeah with a hammer you would be right there!

Joe_Dracos : WS ships you don't kill the ship, you kill the crew.

Unfortunatly true, I mean as if you would put so few crew on so that was the case. It might not be so annoying if they didn't have flight computers.

I'd rather face of against the gun ship than the scout army!

 

[David Anla Shok']

"Never tell me the odds"
H. Solo

 

[katadder]

katadder : a lucky crit and suddenly it looks alot more fragile

Of course but you have to get through dodge/AA/CBD's I love how there perfect for it only 2 weapons!

lol you really need to play the game more. to get the lucky crit you only have to get through the dodge. AA and CBD have no effect on any traits being removed.
also WS gunships really shouldnt be on CBD with 8AD of pulsars to call on as well.

 

[Da Boss]

Kinda depends on the range CBD outside pulsar range is usually sensible?