Lieutenant Rasczak
Mongoose
Mage said:
Thats what I call MP's (Movement Points) when we play VOR LMAO!
It winds 40k Steve up summat rotten!
Abandon Ship
- Thread starter Lieutenant Rasczak
- Start date
Thats what I call MP's (Movement Points) when we play VOR LMAO!
It winds 40k Steve up summat rotten!
bunkerboi
Mongoose
Scip, you're really dropping some pearls of wisdom today!
The world of business is filled with dumb rich people, I think it is because these people aren't distracted with trying to appear smart and just focus on the basics. Quality and consistency are certainly the basics of business.
So true, and it business it seems people have lost the drive that was associated with 6 Sigma and Total Quality Management. I always remember the anecdote about an American businessman who placed an order with a Japanese firm and specified a limit of 0.4% defective parts. He was shocked when he received the order with a small box of defective parts and the note: 'Here are the 0.4% defective parts you ordered, we don't know why you wanted them though.'
The world of business is filled with dumb rich people, I think it is because these people aren't distracted with trying to appear smart and just focus on the basics. Quality and consistency are certainly the basics of business.
ScipioAmericanus
Mongoose
CudaHP said:Scipio, your background is industry, but as you know ten years in any technology can be an eternity.
What was not possible ten years may very well be possible now.
In lead alloys I have cast bullets without mold lines for years. the tolerances are in the mold manufacturing end of the business (die cutting).
Not only were there no mold lines but I segregated my bullets by weight, my normal tolerance was 1/10th of a grain, @ 7,000 grains per pound that is 1/70,000th pound. The bullets would be segregated in .2 grain groups at a max, including lubricant etc. I sized my bullets using through swaging to arrive at specific bullet diameters to the 1/1000th of an inch to fit the bullet to the exact bore diameter of the specific firearm in question.
All of this was an aid in increasing accuracy, of the firearm.
This in a home environment, not a high-tech environment.
If I had desired tighter tolerance I would have gone to swaging operations, which are capable of producing these tighter tolerances with very little training.
Personally I think the whole issue of possible quality is a waste of breathe until we actually see the production figures, paintjobs, sculpt qualities at first hand.
It has been discussed to death with no real results,either good or bad as it is all conjecture.
Hi, Cuda!
"Swaging? Swaging??? That's a term I haven't heard since before you were born" (bad attempt at Obi-Wan-Kenobee). I haven't heard that term in years, but I'm with you.
Agreed. My experience may well be 10 yrs out of date, but on a MASS production level I'm still dubious. Remember: as you said, "This in a home environment, not a high-tech environment."
And another question remains unanswered: if this is a CNC process with colors integral to the moulding process, then there will actually be no such thing as "un-painted" parts, will there? And if many of the figs are one piece casts, then there won't really be a "bits" option, will there?
Regards.
ScipioAmericanus
Mongoose
Mage said:
Hi Mage! Yells!
Yeah. Thanks for the affirmation. I was beginning to think I was the only one that saw that.
Odd. Nobody from MGP has replied to my questions as of yet.
Regards.
roughneck GIR
Mongoose
I support MGP's new movement with shy quiet support, and don't want to get in between anything
:lol: :lol:
:lol: :lol:
ScipioAmericanus
Mongoose
rico's roughnecks said:
Expect mediocrity then.
G'Day
While my reaction may not be as extreme as say Scipio's (hey I paid money for those miniatures, I'm keeping them ) I have to say I am dissapointed.
It's not the prepainted miniatures, it's not the 8 month wait for the release of SST:Evo, It's not turning up at the LGS to answer the question "Is Mongoose quitting on SST?" (something the guy running store shouldn't have to ask me). It's not even the Skinnie debacle (hey I was concentrating on the MI and the Bugs so I avoided that) nor was it the dropships dissappearing into the never never.
What dissapointed me was that when the decision was made to re-do SST into SST:Evo we weren't told from the get go. Had I been told that within Twelve months there would be a new rule book and new army book(s) I would have spent my money differently. Instead of spending money on army books with a 'life expectancy' that now makes a WH40K codex look long lived. I would have brought the other two tanker bugs and hopper bugs my son wants to slaughter me with and made do with the lists in the back of the rulebook.
I don't mind spending money on new rules but I do mind spending money on something that's already out of date.
Cheers
Derek
While my reaction may not be as extreme as say Scipio's (hey I paid money for those miniatures, I'm keeping them
) I have to say I am dissapointed.It's not the prepainted miniatures, it's not the 8 month wait for the release of SST:Evo, It's not turning up at the LGS to answer the question "Is Mongoose quitting on SST?" (something the guy running store shouldn't have to ask me). It's not even the Skinnie debacle (hey I was concentrating on the MI and the Bugs so I avoided that) nor was it the dropships dissappearing into the never never.
What dissapointed me was that when the decision was made to re-do SST into SST:Evo we weren't told from the get go. Had I been told that within Twelve months there would be a new rule book and new army book(s) I would have spent my money differently. Instead of spending money on army books with a 'life expectancy' that now makes a WH40K codex look long lived. I would have brought the other two tanker bugs and hopper bugs my son wants to slaughter me with and made do with the lists in the back of the rulebook.
I don't mind spending money on new rules but I do mind spending money on something that's already out of date.
Cheers
Derek
ScipioAmericanus
Mongoose
derek said:G'Day
While my reaction may not be as extreme as say Scipio's (hey I paid money for those miniatures, I'm keeping them
It's not the prepainted miniatures, it's not the 8 month wait for the release of SST:Evo, It's not turning up at the LGS to answer the question "Is Mongoose quitting on SST?" (something the guy running store shouldn't have to ask me). It's not even the Skinnie debacle (hey I was concentrating on the MI and the Bugs so I avoided that) nor was it the dropships dissappearing into the never never.
What dissapointed me was that when the decision was made to re-do SST into SST:Evo we weren't told from the get go. Had I been told that within Twelve months there would be a new rule book and new army book(s) I would have spent my money differently. Instead of spending money on army books with a 'life expectancy' that now makes a WH40K codex look long lived. I would have brought the other two tanker bugs and hopper bugs my son wants to slaughter me with and made do with the lists in the back of the rulebook.
I don't mind spending money on new rules but I do mind spending money on something that's already out of date.
Cheers
Derek
Hi Derek!
In a word (or phrase): Flames of War.
ScipioAmericanus
Mongoose
Well...all I can say is this:
My original questions to MGP seem to be ignored.
Does that bother anyone else besides me?
My original questions to MGP seem to be ignored.
Does that bother anyone else besides me?
roughneck GIR
Mongoose
They've probably been flooded with emails, its happened many a time before in many companiesScipioAmericanus said:
Nooo Mediocrty *cowers in corner with a chuck norris bobble-head*
Personally I remain optimistic about the pre-painted minis and I think they are a step in the right direction for the hobby in general and one I personally welcome.
No-one posting on these boards has knowledge of the cashflow that Mongoose has. Oftentimes companies, gaming or otherwise, have to make do with whatever limited resources they have available at the time. I remain a big fan of Mighty Armies, the figures for which have been criticised by posters on the forums. While I am sure Mongoose would have liked to have hired the best designers available to produce the best minis on the market, if the money wasn't there, then it wasn't there. There's also the risk factor. With regard to questions about the quality of Skinnie models, no-one knows how the sales of SST were doing at the time the work was commissioned and developed. If it was felt that sales of Skinnie models, however potentially amazing in pose and detail, didn't warrant a huge investment then a tough business decision had to be made. It is unfair to expect Mongoose to invest a large amount of time and money into a product line that is not expected to sell (or, more precisely, sell well enough to justify the investment of time and money).
As casual and responsive as Matt appears when posting on these boards he is highly unlikely to ever get into a discussion about the particular finances of Mongoose. He and Alex have far more to lose if SST:E and BE are not successful.
I feel I'm kinda rambling a bit, but the point I want to make is that I believe Mongoose is doing the best it can to remain a successful company and keep its fans happy. Sometimes, and perhaps SST:E is a case in point, some people aren't going to like the direction a company takes and will withdraw their support. This may be a necessary evil however if the new direction allows the company to remain successful.
Cheers,
Eisho
No-one posting on these boards has knowledge of the cashflow that Mongoose has. Oftentimes companies, gaming or otherwise, have to make do with whatever limited resources they have available at the time. I remain a big fan of Mighty Armies, the figures for which have been criticised by posters on the forums. While I am sure Mongoose would have liked to have hired the best designers available to produce the best minis on the market, if the money wasn't there, then it wasn't there. There's also the risk factor. With regard to questions about the quality of Skinnie models, no-one knows how the sales of SST were doing at the time the work was commissioned and developed. If it was felt that sales of Skinnie models, however potentially amazing in pose and detail, didn't warrant a huge investment then a tough business decision had to be made. It is unfair to expect Mongoose to invest a large amount of time and money into a product line that is not expected to sell (or, more precisely, sell well enough to justify the investment of time and money).
As casual and responsive as Matt appears when posting on these boards he is highly unlikely to ever get into a discussion about the particular finances of Mongoose. He and Alex have far more to lose if SST:E and BE are not successful.
I feel I'm kinda rambling a bit, but the point I want to make is that I believe Mongoose is doing the best it can to remain a successful company and keep its fans happy. Sometimes, and perhaps SST:E is a case in point, some people aren't going to like the direction a company takes and will withdraw their support. This may be a necessary evil however if the new direction allows the company to remain successful.
Cheers,
Eisho
First off, Mongoose isn't actually screwing anyone, except maybe those who were really, really, waiting on those new releases. The new rules will be freely available, every single unit will have stats in the new game. Also the rules themselves probably won't be all that different from SST since it's based on the core SST rules.
Chalk me up as someone who thought SST had problems, among them was that there was some very amiguous rules, and the rules were a bit constricting in that it would be difficult for them to create more than 4 armies.
They also spammed their releases for MI and arachnids too much. Trying to hold too closely to the series and movie, they made some units that really shouldn't have been made (skinnies anyone?)
Prepainted isn't an issue so long as it's not random collectable. I've been waiting for these kind of games for a while now. I had the idea in my head long before there were CMGs too. Honestly it just makes the game more accessable without cutting out the hobbyists since they can repaint or order unpainted from the bits service (or in store). The fact that it's a pickup and play game, prepainted, means that it can be sold in hobby/game stores and chain stores alike. It might even appeal to the action figure market.
I am selling some MI, but that's only because I need the money, I don't want to assemble them, and I plan to replace them with exosuits. I was considering selling my entire SST collection, but the evo news made me wait.
What'll happen sometime next year when SST Evo launches is that it'll get a lot more recognition. It'll relaunch with 4 fleshed out armies, new rules that are backwards compatable, prepainted minis that are affordable and don't take forever to assemble and paint (for people who simply want a game).
Chalk me up as someone who thought SST had problems, among them was that there was some very amiguous rules, and the rules were a bit constricting in that it would be difficult for them to create more than 4 armies.
They also spammed their releases for MI and arachnids too much. Trying to hold too closely to the series and movie, they made some units that really shouldn't have been made (skinnies anyone?)
Prepainted isn't an issue so long as it's not random collectable. I've been waiting for these kind of games for a while now. I had the idea in my head long before there were CMGs too. Honestly it just makes the game more accessable without cutting out the hobbyists since they can repaint or order unpainted from the bits service (or in store). The fact that it's a pickup and play game, prepainted, means that it can be sold in hobby/game stores and chain stores alike. It might even appeal to the action figure market.
I am selling some MI, but that's only because I need the money, I don't want to assemble them, and I plan to replace them with exosuits. I was considering selling my entire SST collection, but the evo news made me wait.
What'll happen sometime next year when SST Evo launches is that it'll get a lot more recognition. It'll relaunch with 4 fleshed out armies, new rules that are backwards compatable, prepainted minis that are affordable and don't take forever to assemble and paint (for people who simply want a game).
Major Chaos
Mongoose
ScipioAmericanus said:derek said:G'Day
While my reaction may not be as extreme as say Scipio's (hey I paid money for those miniatures, I'm keeping them
It's not the prepainted miniatures, it's not the 8 month wait for the release of SST:Evo, It's not turning up at the LGS to answer the question "Is Mongoose quitting on SST?" (something the guy running store shouldn't have to ask me). It's not even the Skinnie debacle (hey I was concentrating on the MI and the Bugs so I avoided that) nor was it the dropships dissappearing into the never never.
What dissapointed me was that when the decision was made to re-do SST into SST:Evo we weren't told from the get go. Had I been told that within Twelve months there would be a new rule book and new army book(s) I would have spent my money differently. Instead of spending money on army books with a 'life expectancy' that now makes a WH40K codex look long lived. I would have brought the other two tanker bugs and hopper bugs my son wants to slaughter me with and made do with the lists in the back of the rulebook.
I don't mind spending money on new rules but I do mind spending money on something that's already out of date.
Cheers
Derek
Hi Derek!
In a word (or phrase): Flames of War.
The new rules look sweet for that as well. Don't forget Hordes as it is also a class act!
Major Chaos
Mongoose
ScipioAmericanus said:
That is a symptom of all the problems here. MGP gave us a half baked product and is now following up with half baked promises. This is looking more like the death of Cross Gen Comics than the birth of a new game system....
The Old Soldier
Mongoose
Would you guys like some cheeze with that whine?
It is so easy to be negative.....
It is so easy to be negative.....
MaxSteiner
Mongoose
... the nineties were a bad time for comics :lol:
I was staying clear of this since I never bothered to disguise how bad I thought the skinnies were when they came out, but I think in Mongooses defense its a bit of a difficult question to answer isn't it? I don't see how they could answer without pissing someone off...
And to be completly honest if Mongoose were going purely on what was said on these forums they must have thought the entire Skinny range was the best thing ever the way people were raving about them.
Mongoose was trying out alot of different methods so I don't blame them for most of it really I'm sure at the start there was a push to prove that SST wasn't going to be a small stand alone game where you just fought bug vs MI battles out of the box, and that might explain some of the less considered releases (Those electric pylons anyone?).
Producing the miniatures in the US to take advantage of the strong pound must have made quality control really difficult, not to mention the fact that if you've got a production schedual to keep which includes mailing a fragile green to a moldmaker any delays are gonna cost you lots of money.
Setting up the chinese plastic production was a good move in the long run but must have made things tight at the start (I'd imagine alot was lost on the Blister/blaster sprues).
But I don't see why alot of the Skinnies weren't just sent back for a bit more work, its not uncommon in the business, any sculpter who'd refuse to say redo the Skinny Venerables shoulder mounted weapons (On account of them looking crap) doesn't deserve the work simple as that...
Um... yeah Im rambling I might put a stop to it actually... basically there were a lot of lessons to be learned through all of this and I'm hoping Mongoose has taken it all on board for the new edition, and I'm glad that I stuck to my guns and didn't buy any skinnies
==Edit==> Its alot harder to be negative on this forum then you people think!
I was staying clear of this since I never bothered to disguise how bad I thought the skinnies were when they came out, but I think in Mongooses defense its a bit of a difficult question to answer isn't it? I don't see how they could answer without pissing someone off...
And to be completly honest if Mongoose were going purely on what was said on these forums they must have thought the entire Skinny range was the best thing ever the way people were raving about them.
Mongoose was trying out alot of different methods so I don't blame them for most of it really I'm sure at the start there was a push to prove that SST wasn't going to be a small stand alone game where you just fought bug vs MI battles out of the box, and that might explain some of the less considered releases (Those electric pylons anyone?).
Producing the miniatures in the US to take advantage of the strong pound must have made quality control really difficult, not to mention the fact that if you've got a production schedual to keep which includes mailing a fragile green to a moldmaker any delays are gonna cost you lots of money.
Setting up the chinese plastic production was a good move in the long run but must have made things tight at the start (I'd imagine alot was lost on the Blister/blaster sprues).
But I don't see why alot of the Skinnies weren't just sent back for a bit more work, its not uncommon in the business, any sculpter who'd refuse to say redo the Skinny Venerables shoulder mounted weapons (On account of them looking crap) doesn't deserve the work simple as that...
Um... yeah Im rambling I might put a stop to it actually... basically there were a lot of lessons to be learned through all of this and I'm hoping Mongoose has taken it all on board for the new edition, and I'm glad that I stuck to my guns and didn't buy any skinnies
==Edit==> Its alot harder to be negative on this forum then you people think!
The Old Soldier said:
Well they are not the first persons in the world actively seeking out complaints to be made. Some people just cant live if they cant find something to complain about it.
Gee so Mongoose gave us "only" eight month advance warning. Should they have said 12 months ago we MIGHT redo game a bit in these and these ways(oh and we also will keep old rules fully supported as well!). Then same people would have complained "they gave us only 20 months advance warning! They should give us warning sooner!" etc
MaxSteiner
Mongoose
tneva82 if you're going to judge someone could you read their posts?
The current complaint has nothing to do with the relaunch, other than it being a sympton of the problems which were identified from the start...
The current complaint has nothing to do with the relaunch, other than it being a sympton of the problems which were identified from the start...
Games&Theory
Mongoose
ScipioAmericanus said:
Hi, Scip
Though yours were much more deserving of a response, if it makes you feel better, my rants never got any response from anybody official either... :wink:
G&T
