Abandon Ship

[SickBunny]

Some of the newer forum members probably do not understand something: those of us that were with the game from the start have (or had) a HUGE personal stake in it. In my case, I was lucky enough to be included in 4 SST publications (Pathfinders, Roughnecks, MI Army Book, and MI Field Manual for the RPG). I have lost count of the literally HUNDREDS of hours I have worked on stuff for SST, and that does not include any work on my own minis, doing demos, promoting, promoting, promoting, etc. I too have spent thousands of $ on SST.


Regards.

Huge props to Scipio for getting his badges out and I might think they could still use them in further Evolution products (Not sure about the deal you cut with MP)

But to take a stand for us "oldtimers", thats were I draw the line.

I have been into SST from the moment the first box arrived to Finland (and I do mean literally the first since I work for the chain of stores that brought the game to Finland) and could be considered to be even before that since I was the one whose pestering got the game ordered at its publication to begin with. I have at least one of Each and Every product that mongoose has published to SST (Yes, that includes bugfences...) and most in numerous duplicates so my monatery investment is considerable, not to even go to my personal investment of painting all of that into multitudes of armies And the armies I have painted for the store which has lead to the literally hundreds of demo's ran both locally here at the shop and in numerous conventions. And I still love the damn game! And Mongoose for attempting to improve it!

The number one reason why people in here have not gotten into it is because they do not have the time to start Yet another army... Every single person that has been flirting with the idea of SST and even bought the books and some models whome I've told about the news has gone apepoo with excitement! Finally they can get into SST in a way that allows them to get gaming since all of them have other lives outside the hobby and most are serious hardcore modellers... including multiple paintingcompany winners...

So trust me... there is at least one olde timer who will keep flying the Mongoose flag in the cold north...

Damnit...

 

[The Old Soldier]

Sick Bunny is my hero. I too, have been from the beginning with SST, had to convince my local store to carry it, had to run demos till I grew sick of it, as SB mentioned the number one problem for many of the gamers was time, they just didn't want to spend all that time painting, they wanted to jump in and start playing. I was the only demo guy within a 200 mile radius for a very long time.

Maybe someone can start a place your gripes here post. That way they can all be together, and the rest of us can move on. No offense SA, I have alway's enjoyed your post in the past, but maybe you need to step back, I seems you got to emotionally involved, after all it is JUST a game.

Best wishes.

 

[Lieutenant Rasczak]

Sick Bunny is my hero. I too, have been from the beginning with SST, had to convince my local store to carry it, had to run demos till I grew sick of it, as SB mentioned the number one problem for many of the gamers was time, they just didn't want to spend all that time painting, they wanted to jump in and start playing. I was the only demo guy within a 200 mile radius for a very long time.

Maybe someone can start a place your gripes here post. That way they can all be together, and the rest of us can move on. No offense SA, I have alway's enjoyed your post in the past, but maybe you need to step back, I seems you got to emotionally involved, after all it is JUST a game.

Best wishes.

To support that, a Quote comes to my mind -

When any fit of gloominess, or perversion of mind, lays hold upon you, make it a rule not to publish it by complaints.

~Samuel Johnson

 

[tneva82]

those of us that were with the game from the start have (or had) a HUGE personal stake in it.

And now Mongoose is bad boy by listening to it's customers by creating clearer rulesets and new models and give new choises :lol:

Lol. First time EVER when company LISTENING to its customers is concidered bad!

 

[Lieutenant Rasczak]

those of us that were with the game from the start have (or had) a HUGE personal stake in it.

And now Mongoose is bad boy by listening to it's customers by creating clearer rulesets and new models and give new choises :lol:

Lol. First time EVER when company LISTENING to its customers is concidered bad!

I've never had a problem with Scipio, he is a nice and reasonable bloke.

If he's upset that is his right, drop it now guys.

 

[Lorcan Nagle]

Yeah Scipio is one of the guys who's put forward very good arguements for being disillisuoned with the game, and with the potential problems for Evo.

 

[ScipioAmericanus]

But to take a stand for us "oldtimers", thats were I draw the line.

SickBunny:

I never intended to speak for anyone other than myself, and if you re-read my post, I don't think what I said is innacurate: I think (based on what I've read) that "oldtimers" do indeed have a large personal stake in the game.

I never meant to imply that anyone else agreed with my concerns, and if I gave that impression, then I apologize.

Regards.

 

[nezeray]

Another Old timer here. I'm keeping all of my stuff and assembling everything that's currently in boxes. When the new stuff comes out, I'm sure I'll buy more Especially more LAMI. Also I may pick up the figures that are currently out that I don't have yet if costs of living calm down some.

Nezeray
Working on King and Thorney tankers currently.

 

[knuckles]

Would you guys like some cheeze with that whine?


It is so easy to be negative.....

Well they are not the first persons in the world actively seeking out complaints to be made. Some people just cant live if they cant find something to complain about it.

Gee so Mongoose gave us "only" eight month advance warning. Should they have said 12 months ago we MIGHT redo game a bit in these and these ways(oh and we also will keep old rules fully supported as well!). Then same people would have complained "they gave us only 20 months advance warning! They should give us warning sooner!" etc

A disturbing trend I've noticed is that anybody with a join date in the 2006 range thinks this idea is just too peachy keen. Well, that position is easy enough to say when your investment (of time, money, support for the company) has been minimal. But look at posters with early 2005 (or prior) join dates and the percentage who are being "negative" seems to really go up. Wanna know why?...read on:

The bottom line is that in switching to SST:E, MGP made a GOOD business decision in both financial terms and likelihood of continuing the franchise! Hooray, right!?!?! Well, in this case, it comes at a price: how the existing customer base was treated...especially those who supported the game in it's infancy.

I do think MGP had to make a hard decision on switching to a more comtemporary business strat and I bet it pays off. I have had 2 LGS owners tell me they would likely stock SST:E becuase it'll probably sell and they something to replace the waning 'Clix revenue...but the first thing they both said, without prompting I might add, was basically "sucks to be the old players." Hmmm...so maybe I'm actually not crazy when I think that...

Oh, and might I add, both owners keenly noticed how the HOBBY (not just gaming but building, converting, painting) will llikely lose yet more ground once SST:E arrives.

Those store owners (who opened those stores because of the HOBBY) never spoke the words but, nevertheless, they made me feel like I had been supporting a trojan horse all this time. Me, the champion of SST, who had been pumping my own dollars into product (to keep them in business, I thought as I did it) and trying to drum up support on the local level has been thanked with the sudden realization that I had been actually paying to support the betatest period of a new and different product and that there was suddenly the very likely prospect that a good bit of the work I'd done to get more people into the HOBBY will be eroded by yet more pre-painted plastic crack being pushed.

But hey, companies need to make tough decisions...all's fair in love war and business, I guess...

As a player and poster with a join date in May 2005, and someone who also has invested a lot of money and many demos I really do not see what the fuss is about. All the models you have will fit the new system, the rules will be improved. Current rule books and army books can still be used and played, all stated by Matt Sprange. A game like SST must evolve and like it or not MGP have made their decissions and let us all know in plenty of time before the new realeases. I tossed the pros and cons of the prepainted models for myself personnally and believe for me it is a good thing, the best of both worlds, I can play with the models straight from the box or make my own changes ranging from a touch up to a complete repaint.

I am not making 'its all peachy comments', there will be issues and of course every individual will make their own decission but I fail to see that there is an overwhelming negative argument if all the fors and againsts are looked at rationally and without emotion. People, I have said it before and I will say it again, the sky is not falling and the proof of the pudding will be in the eating.

 

[knuckles]

Oh and for the record, I will be keeping my stuff, plan on getting more and am looking forward to the SST Evo releases. Cheers

 

[nezeray]

I can tell you that at my HOME store, where I do 90% of my demos, people have looked at the "old" game and said, "I don't have time to paint and assemble all those figures for a game that is so much like 40k." After finding out about the propainted, preassembled, non-CMG, they were all wanting to see the new figures. They want to BUY into the game. Many have played my demos and liked the rules, but like to play with the figures that go with the game, so no Chaos Starship Trooper proxies for them. Now they can buy and play the game and not add more figures to the assembly/paint queue.

Now will they play the new rules or the old ones? I don't know. Since I have all of the old books, I don't know which rules *I* will play. But by God I will be playing SST with these newcomers.

Nezeray

 

[roughneck GIR]

Cool, good to here fresh meat is wanting to play!
And great to see scipio is being here more and more :wink:

And for everyone who is dissing the others opinions, so what if they don't like MGP's new thing, not everyone has to like everything, so watch out, I use bastards and pricks for making my metal work :lol:

 

[ScipioAmericanus]

...so watch out, I use bastards and pricks for making my metal work :lol: [/color]

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Good one, Rico!!!!

Regards.

 

[roughneck GIR]

...so watch out, I use bastards and pricks for making my metal work :lol:

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Good one, Rico!!!!

Regards.

LOL I couldn't resist that one :lol:
Aaaahh Mr Hawton taught me well in the ways of jokes and Metal work

 

[LTJason]

I for one am not getting rid of my SST at this point, but I am putting it up into storage for now to see how things shake out. Personally I don't like the move to pre-assembled, pre-painted miniatures - at least if that was the only option. Now if Mongoose offered the pre-finished models in addition to un-finished models I would stay in. Nonetheless I am shelving my SST for now to see how things settle out next year. I love the game system, and while some of the scultps where less that spectacular I might still drag it out for conventions, but as a regular game I think I'd rather pour my time and energy into another system like Flames of War, Warmachine, Rezolution, or (gasp) Warhammer 40K.

 

[Phil73805]

WARNING! Long post, you may want to get a sandwich

I was going to vote but I realised that I hadn't decided yet and really can't until I've actually seen the new minis and can judge whether they make the old ones look awful or whether they will mesh seamlessly together (or something inbetween) allowing me to expand my army without having to worry when the hell I'll be able to paint them in my ever dwindling free time.

Mongoose also seem to be saying that they will continue to support the old game, hmmm, if all the old minis will fit into the new game and the rules will be such an improvement why support the old game at all? Unless this is just a placebo to keep the hardcore faithful happy until they can be distracted by the new shiny minis while the orginal version of SST dies quietly in its sleep...

As far as the streamlining of the rules goes, that is, in the long term, my greatest worry. GW did it with 40K until there was nothing left but a dice throwing match because the rules were so abstract as to render meaningful tactics pointless. That's what I loved about SST, a dynamic ruleset that allows real strategies to develop while keeping you fully occupied during your opponents turn looking for opportunities to react and lay down some hurt.

What gives me hope is Mongoose's approach to this change. Consulting with players on these forums, inviting people to the head office with their old minis to show how compatible the game is, unheard of! They are making tough business decisions but are trying to cushion the blow to their devoted fans. GW frequently made changes to the ruleset that rendered whole armies obsolete overnight with barely any warning and with barely a flicker of consience confident of more young kiddies marching in and persuading Mumsi to re-mortage the house so that they could buy another army.

Will Mongoose do the same in the long run and become a corporate monster as the realities of business come into inevitable conflict with the needs of some of their customers, who knows, I hope not.

Meanwhile, do I feel like a muppet for buying the boxset, army books and assorted extra minis without checking these forums first, YES! But do you know what, I think I've decided, I won't sell what I've got, at least not yet, but I'd be a fool to buy more until I can see what's coming.

Phil

p.s. the above is a long rant during which I may have said things that offend someone, this is NOT my intention and I apologise right now for any hurt feelings. But having just invested around £200+ in a game that may die, I'm worried and the above is me thinking out loud..

 

[CudaHP]

Phil73805,
As to why Mongoose will continue to support those of us already involved when their primary focus will be on Pre-painted and the EVO SST rules, well because they are honorable business people.

Unlike other companies that do not continue support with rules and figures, Matt and Alex feel honor bound not to simply Orphan those of us currently using their game rules.

Their stated intention is to support all thge older figures and units by furnishing "free" downloadable stats to allow their full use in the newer revised system.

The "Streamlining" you mentioned is supposed to primarily fix rules that were regarded as creating problems or confusion in the current rule set.

They are in fact going to be adding additional things to the rules such as "Suppression Fire".

If the pre-painted figs match the production photos shown thus far they should be very nice (Ihope, I hope).

All of the currently available figures are supposed to continue to be available for a long time.

GW did not streamline their rules they dumbed them down to the point that most of the things which determine who wins a 40K battle are done during putting together your Army list.

Too many 40K Battles are won or lost in turn one based on who goes first. Sad. :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

 

[roughneck GIR]

Too many 40K Battles are won or lost in turn one based on who goes first. Sad. :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Ha! I killed all your pansy elders with my leman russes in my first turn, and that basalisk killed you powerful floating tank thing beat that

I've lost, theres no way I can kill your armored company with stinky infantry that only carry normal gun

LOL :lol:

 

[Voracioustigger]

Well, the Six good men are all a part of the team working on SST: Evo and we are the group that all you "old timers" voted for to best represent what the game should be.

Cynic and I, especially, are making multiple page long reviews (about the rules that Sprange has provided us) on almost a daily basis to make the rules familiar, streamlined, and just better in general. I'd say almost all of our comments (that aren't drastic changes, though some of those make it in the game sometimes too) get put into each update that sprange sends us of the rules.

For all you long time players, I wouldn't worry. We're basically just cutting out things that were extremely confusing or just didn't make any sense, and making other rules easier to follow (as well as adding some fun things like suppression too).

You guys asked for players like me, Cynic, and Hiro to represent you, and we're doing the best we can, so I wouldn't be worried about being "abandoned" if you are a long time player.

 

[Voracioustigger]

Too many 40K Battles are won or lost in turn one based on who goes first. Sad. :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

I would also like to point out that the rules are also being made so that this can no longer happen in SST.

I have a Bug AND a Skinnie army that was EASILY capable of winning the game on turn 1 (though the closest I ever got to ACTUALLY winning in one turn left them with 1 model left).