2e EA wish list

[angelus2000]

1. The bad moulds are getting remastered. Not that I've heard as such but because not doing so would be a glaring oversight and I doubt Mongoose wants to see the hurricane of flames from not doing so.

2. I can almost agree wiith this one. An SFOS Omega was weak, as fighters were underpowered and they had a smaller dam/crew track. Now their survivabilty is much more on track. The big issue I have with Omegas as nearly all their serious secondaries punch was fore/aft, with not much love for the side arcs. However, comments made by various people lead me to believe thats going to switched up. Hopefully it will Match up well enough with Nova to use the same brawling style tactics when the range drops.

3. Want "Earthy" ships? Play 3rd Age or Early Era. I understand you point though, as I despise most of the the Late Era ships.

4. Sort of agree. I'd rather them not get touched as at least they work now, as opposed to whatever bright idea someone comes up with will msot likely either nerg them or make them broken.

5. Boresight beams are what give EA is "Earthy" feel in the first place. With the upcoming boresight/beam changes this points DOA.

6. Cant say much. Play 3rd Age exclusively so no Saggi/Apollos to bother wit

 

[emperorpenguin]

The big issue I have with Omegas as nearly all their serious secondaries punch was fore/aft, with not much love for the side arcs. However, comments made by various people lead me to believe thats going to switched up. Hopefully it will Match up well enough with Nova to use the same brawling style tactics when the range drops.

pretty much. The EA feel more like a floating pillbox now. Being so slow and unmanoeuvrable they expect to get flanked and can put out fearsome firepower in all directions.

 

[angelus2000]

pretty much. The EA feel more like a floating pillbox now. Being so slow and unmanoeuvrable they expect to get flanked and can put out fearsome firepower in all directions

Yay!!. I can say with finality I got my 2e wish then. Hows about Novas with something other than goofy LPA's and Hyperions that dont get massive overkilled at first glance? Maybe chuck in a few million dollars while your at it

The above statement is a joke. It should be obvious but some people here have no snese of humor :roll:

 

[Tolwyn]

I have to agree with CZuschlag. The last week was frustrating. I heard so much whining and criticism on the 2nd Ed that it nearly scared me away from from it. Why is it so bad in your opinion?
Sorry if this sounds like whining, too, but I don't understand much of the criticism.

After Armageddon the Omega is a rather powerfull ship. Decent fighters and good forward weapons. Every 3rd Age EA fleet of mine has one with. It's hard to get the boresight, right, but you could use the Olympus or other ships as Initiative sinks to get th Omega lined up. As far as I know the E-Mines should become one shot weapons.

 

[Joe_Dracos]

:shock: Hmmm, so much for not over reacting :shock:

Okay, after some time to mull over these responses, lets take a second to examine what I said.

1. I did acknowledge the omegas studiness.

2. I didn't ask for Psycop Pinky's "suggestion" for a fix.

3. I want the forward weapons to be more like what was on the show. Is it to much to ask for the Omega to have Laser/Pulse arrays in the forward and aft arcs. If you watch the show they didn't have Heavy pulse cannons AND Laser cannons, they were firing one or the other, never both.

4. I believe sombody said it best when they pointed out that fighters will deplete Interceptors rather quickly. Also there seems to be a rather undeserved reputation for EA fighters. Sure there good, but last time I checked, anybody can kill a T-Bolt in a dog fight and there are plenty fighters out there with 2+ dog fight or better. Back to the interceptors, I think it wouldn't be out of the question if a ship has 3 interceptors that have been over welmed, that player can keep rolling all three interceptors and negate attacks on 6's.

5. I think all boresight weapons should have a couple (1 or 2) more attack dice then a ship at the same priority with F arc beam weapons. The difference is huge.

 

[emperorpenguin]

Hows about Novas with something other than goofy LPA's and Hyperions that dont get massive overkilled at first glance? :

LPAs are awkward to balance, they might not make it in

I still think Hyperions are too heavily armed for their own good! They die so easily because you kill a ship with the firepower of an Omega only it is smaller and only hull 5, much less effort for as great a reward

 

[angelus2000]

My comment was in favor of removing the LPA's entirely. probably in favor of Heavy Pulse Cannons or similiar. I'd like a few more AD in the fore/aft arcs and AP to port/star but but thats purely for my powergaming selfishness .

Yes, the Hyperions are still overarmed and I'd prefer to see thier power reduced, mainly down to 2AD on the Laser Cannons. I'd like another fighter flight and more range on the fore secondaries, plasma cannons especially, but once again, powergaming selfishness at work

Now to see if 3rd Age Avenger are going to be worthwhile as had been suggested elsewhere......

 

[CZuschlag]

Joe_Dracos:

Um, the Drakh have no fighters at all, so no dogfighting there. The maximum DFR fighter between the League is +1 on the Tzymm, which doens't even have a Carrier. The best DFR between the Raiders and the Dilgar is +0. Same with the Shadows.

I could also include the Gorith's max of +1, but they get Pulsar Mines.

And why does everyone discount interceptors stopping 1/6 of all interceptible firepower even when depeleted? That's still pretty darn important! (Shakes head).

 

[Iain McGhee]

There was a post from Matt Sprange a month or so back in which he said that the mould for the Omega was being re-done and a new smaller Olympus was in the works.

I'm not going to get drawn into the rest of this thread :wink:

 

[Locutus9956]

Right just seen this thread and as a predominately EA player:

1) Cant really comment, all my Omegas are from B5wars days so no idea what the moulds are like now.

2) Im sorry but have you considered that maybe its you whose not using your Omegas to their best? The Omega is a very solid ship. Sure its not as good as say, a Tinashi or a Primus, but its by no means rubbish!

Boresight is, with a bit of initiative sinking (and EA isn hardly short of decent skirmish, and even some worthwile PATROL choices) not really the massive disadvantage some people make it out to be. Bear in mind as well that the Omega has AFT beams too. This of course will make no difference if you sit back and snipe with them but thats not how to use them well imho, you need to close quickly and bring your pulse cannons to bear as soon as possible and then overshoot and AFT boresight. In fact in a one on one fight with a Primus or a G'Quan I'd bet on an Omega most times.

As for fighters, it sounds to me like your 'fighters suck' comments are based largely on playing vs Narns. Well in all honesty if you pick ships that use lots of fighter vs Narns you deserve to lose. You cant expect every ship to be ideal in every situation. Nonetheless I'd STILL bet on the Omega vs a G'Quan. As you close you have more beam firepower, even if he takes ship burster emines you have interceptors that can stop alot of that firepower, (oh wait, sorry I forgot interceptors are worthless.... )

And you say that its easy to dispose of ea fighters with proper tactics but then again, Id argue that its easy to keep them alive with proper tactics (vs narns for example perhaps NOT LAUNCHING THEM TILL YOUVE GOT PAST THE EMINES!!!)

3) Earthy feel? Hmm well Early and 3rd Age have that in spades if you ask me, and Crusade era is SUPPOSED to be more advanced and still imho feels about right.

4) Interceptors are useless? Well sure maybe against some races and indeed if your opponent is tailoring fleets to fight EA chances are hes going to take weapons that ingore interceptors on purpose but thats a LONG way from them being worthless. Just because theyre not imprgnable shields doesnt mean they suck. And besides all that bear in mind that most EA ships are at least as tough as anything else at that PL even WITHOUT their interceptors!

5) Theres far too much winging about boresights in general. Its just a gameplay mechaninc and you either learn to work with it or be prepared to lose alot Im afraid. That said there are some changes coming from what Ive heard of 2nd ed. Not major ones but enough to make quite a difference still....

6) Ok here I tend to agree. Flash missiles at the moment are just a bit too good. I generally dont tend to use them as I actually prefer standard ones for the SAP crits (I dont use alot of missiles though so just use them to crit fish rather than do the real dmg).

Overall I'd tend to agree with CZ here Im afraid, people (and again not just pointing at you pwserage) are far too quick to whine that something is no good just because it doesnt work in the way they feel it should. The Omega is not a sit back and blast away ship like the Priums and if used as such then yes its going to get massively outclassed, but it IS a very solid battleship if used right in my eyes.

Ok rant done

 

[Lord David the Denied]

Why would the Omega get a laser/pulse array, anyway? We clearly see two distinct weapons mounts on the front turrets, and see it firing pulses and beams in rapid succession in at least one episode.

 

[emperorpenguin]

actually all the fire comes from the same big barrel. Not sure what that smaller part is for, targetting?

 

[Lord David the Denied]

Not so. I'm certain I've seen the beam coming from the smaller cone-shaped bit. It's above the pulse cannon barrels, and I'm sure I've seen beams being fired while the barrels are clearly visible below. I'll have a poke round...

*EDIT*

It actually looks like the fat barrel is above the cone on some ships and below it on others, and the beam seems to come from either component, varying from scene to scene. Dare I say, CGI cock-ups...?

 

[Locutus9956]

Oh good lord no, that would be unprescedented, we all know that the CGI in B5 is flawless and the very model of consistencey. Why the very IDEA that they could get something wrong is ludicrous my good man! :lol:

 

[Lord David the Denied]

I realise what I've suggested is preposterous, but it's the only possible explanation. Tantamount to heresy, I agree, but I cannot keep silent about my findings... the world must know!

 

[pwrserge]

2) Im sorry but have you considered that maybe its you whose not using your Omegas to their best? The Omega is a very solid ship. Sure its not as good as say, a Tinashi or a Primus, but its by no means rubbish!

The point is that these ships are suposed to be about equal. They are not even close. By the time you break past the F arc of the above ships you'll be lucky if you have a third of your damage left and are not missing some critical systems. At that point superior rear armament is irrelevant. As your omeas can easily be finished off by the above's secondaries.

Boresight is, with a bit of initiative sinking (and EA isn hardly short of decent skirmish, and even some worthwile PATROL choices) not really the massive disadvantage some people make it out to be. Bear in mind as well that the Omega has AFT beams too. This of course will make no difference if you sit back and snipe with them but thats not how to use them well imho, you need to close quickly and bring your pulse cannons to bear as soon as possible and then overshoot and AFT boresight. In fact in a one on one fight with a Primus or a G'Quan I'd bet on an Omega most times.

Initiative sinking is a poor response, especialy since your enemy can do so as well. In fact, since EA does have so many great lower end choices, there is rarely a reason to take an Omega. Especialy when you can break it down into a Hyperion (or Nova), Oracle, Hermes, AND a wing of fighters. My point is that the Omega is nowhere near as good as it should be for it's priority level.

As for fighters, it sounds to me like your 'fighters suck' comments are based largely on playing vs Narns. Well in all honesty if you pick ships that use lots of fighter vs Narns you deserve to lose.

Except that with EA you have no choice at higher priority levels, the list forces you to count fighters as part of your main battery.

And you say that its easy to dispose of ea fighters with proper tactics but then again, Id argue that its easy to keep them alive with proper tactics (vs narns for example perhaps NOT LAUNCHING THEM TILL YOUVE GOT PAST THE EMINES!!!)

If your fighters are in the hangars, then they might as well be dead. In addition, you are giving up a turn in which your fighters spend on the bases of your ships where they are just e-mine fodder. Let's not forget that almost all races have access to crazy anti fighter weapons. (Shadows, Drakh, and a few others excluded.) Narn have their e-mine goodness, and since pulsar mines are not changing they still will. Minbari have mini-beams on EVERYTHING and superior fighters of their own to boot. ISA provides you with the same problems. The league has cheap Vree saucers to act as escorts. So getting a fighter strike in without loosing your fighters a turn later is practicaly impossible and hardly worth the effort.

4) Interceptors are useless? Well sure maybe against some races and indeed if your opponent is tailoring fleets to fight EA chances are hes going to take weapons that ingore interceptors on purpose but thats a LONG way from them being worthless. Just because theyre not imprgnable shields doesnt mean they suck. And besides all that bear in mind that most EA ships are at least as tough as anything else at that PL even WITHOUT their interceptors!

Ok, here I have to be a little bit of a jerk. Here's a quick list of hull 6 ships from other races.
Ship (race) - Damage - Crew
Omega (EA) - 48/12 - 66/16
Lakara (Abbai) - 54/12 - 66/14 - (With more interceptors and secondaries which are almost a match for a pulse Omega)
Avioki or Kaliva (Brakiri) - 64/10 - 68/10 - (Armaments are a bit worse...)
Primus (Centauri) - 45/12 - 60/15 - (1 less interceptor, 1 less hull, and 6 less crew for a drastic increase in main armament)
New Troligan (Minbari) - 60/15 - 58/16 - (Much better armament, stealth, and a speed increase. Sure, that's an equal ship.)
G'Quan or G'Lan (Narn) - 55/13 - 70/19 - (Buy these in a 1 G'Quan for every 1-2 G'Lan and you have sufficient e-mines to cover against fighter strikes plus the crazy mag gun death.)

I'm not arguing that they are better ships, just disproving your claim that omegas are just as tough as anything else in the priority level.

In addition, everybody and their uncle uses Beams for their main batteries, this means that the most you can rely on your interceptors for is a few hits from secondaries in the latter stages of the game. (When you only get to keep them for another couple of turns.) Don't even get me started on Minbari.

SERGE

 

[Silvereye]

The point is that these ships are suposed to be about equal. They are not even close. By the time you break past the F arc of the above ships you'll be lucky if you have a third of your damage left and are not missing some critical systems. At that point superior rear armament is irrelevant. As your omeas can easily be finished off by the above's secondaries.

The ships are not supposed to be made equal. They should be made equal in fleet usefulness. The Omega does not function in the same way as a Tinashi or Primus. An Omega is a great all round fleet element, I find myself having to remove them from my high PL fleet rosters as they are really solid ships of the line, best used in brawling attacks on multiple, often lighter, targets in as many arcs as possible. Tinashi and Primus as ship killers, designed for one on one duelling.

One on one against a Tinashi or Primus, I'd expect a G'Quan or Omega to be toast without a lucky break, as locutus said get in closer with its secondaries and the lucky break may happen more often. Build a decent fleet around the hull and the Omega will hold it together well in most cases.

Initiative sinking is a poor response, especialy since your enemy can do so as well. In fact, since EA does have so many great lower end choices, there is rarely a reason to take an Omega. Especialy when you can break it down into a Hyperion (or Nova), Oracle, Hermes, AND a wing of fighters. My point is that the Omega is nowhere near as good as it should be for it's priority level.

Initiative sinking is a good response. The Omega is likely to clear out Initiative sinks faster than a Primus simply because it has more secondary armament, and its boresight is more likely to be pointed at another. A ship with F arc is likely to be able to make the shot whatever, a Boresight migh not be guarenteed to shoot what you want, but you should never have a problem boresighting something.

Except that with EA you have no choice at higher priority levels, the list forces you to count fighters as part of your main battery.

Fighters are indeed a valuable part of the EA arsenal, and used well will open up the emeny for all your railguns, missiles and pulse cannon. while keeping enemy fighters away from your ships. Against Narn, fighters (of any other race) need carefully looked after to make sure they are not e-mine fodder.

<CUT>... In addition, everybody and their uncle uses Beams for their main batteries, this means that the most you can rely on your interceptors for is a few hits from secondaries in the latter stages of the game. (When you only get to keep them for another couple of turns.) Don't even get me started on Minbari.

Ok, Minbari and Vorlons aside, if the majority of the EA fleet in not engaged in a furball in the second or third turn, then you are not playing to the EAs strengths. For the most part, you want to be in your opponents line, with enemies in as many arcs as you can get. Otherwise those Port, Starboard and most importantly Aft (EA have some of the best rear mounted weapons in the game) might as well not be counted as ships strength. As like you pointed out with fighters - if they are in the hangers they may as well be dead, if you are not using these arcs then you are wasting the ships potential and handicapping yourself. In a close range brawl, interceptors are your friend.

 

[Locutus9956]

Tinashi - 38 dmg hull5 (ok and stealth but thats a whole nother issue)
Stormfalcon -48 dmg hull6
Xaak - 38 dmg hull 6


Just because SOME ships are slightly touhger doesnt invalidate the point that the omega is ROUGHLY as tough as most other battleships.

As for leaving fighters in hangars being pointless.... well fine you go right ahead and deploy them in front of all those emines..... Or you could depoly them the turn you go behind your enemies lines and then have fighters on the board out of arc for his emines....

I DO happen to think fighters could use some imporving in general but I certainly wouldnt write them off as worthless at the moment (especially not EA or Minbari fighters)

And as has been said on many occassions, if you insist on comparing to the Centauri Primus, yes it has better weapons IN THE FRONT.

But besides all that, ACTA is not a game of ship vs ship. If EA can break ships down better for two hyperions then DO IT if youre in a game where your omega is going to be outclassed and useless. The PL system is designed to blanace FLEETS not individual ships (I personally think it has issues now weve got so many ships and we should move to points but that, again is a whole nother issue)

 

[Valen is my name]

Triggy's Battle Ship Rankings -- these are all the ships that Triggy considered to be worse than the Omega, in order --

Garasoch (Dilgar) 4.1338
Hyperion Command (EA) 4.3161
Avenger (DoTA EA) 5.0041
Brokados (Brakiri) 5.1698
Avioki (Brakiri) 5.5402
Apollo (EA) 5.6305
Tikrit (Dilgar) 5.6403
Morshin (Minbari) 5.7042
Raiders Nova (Raiders) 5.9845
Nightfalcon (Drazi) 6.4584
Var’Nic (Narn) 6.2017
Wahant (Dilgar) 6.5949
Omega Pulse (EA) 6.6740
Stormfalcon (Drazi) 6.7663
Balvarix (Centauri) 6.8444
Kahtrik (Dilgar) 7.3252
Orestes (EA) 7.4294
Kaliva (Brakiri) 7.4993
Drakh Cruiser (Drakh) 7.5115
Tinashi (Minbari) 7.5503
Secundus (Centauri) 7.5807
G’Lan (Narn) 7.7184
Xaak (Vree) 7.7456
Marathon (EA) 7.8976
Lakara (Abbai) 7.9195
G’Quan (Narn) 7.9764

For the record, the Omega is ranked 9th BEST.

The mrathon got a lower ranking than the omega? how come? even the fluff says that the marathon is better

 

[Lord David the Denied]

My 2nd ed wishes are pretty simple at this point...

EA fighters are too good. Starfury back to +1 dogfight, and Thunderbolts down to +0 dogfight, and reduced hull scores. Hull 5 is far too much for a fighter.