2e EA wish list

[pwrserge]

Ok, I am not one to whine usualy but I just spend a frustrating night putting together some Omegas and the following list comes to mind.

1. Please re master most of the EA moulds, they are your most popular models, please let them look apropriately.

2. Omegas that DON'T suck. Right now, with the exception of their fighters, every other race has a better battle choice. (Primus, Drakh Cruiser, etc)

3. More "Earthy" ships feeling. No hyper advanced shadow tech, no crazy AJP bombers. etc

4. Make interceptors usefull. Seriously, there is almost no reason to have them against most races. Since beams are the main bateries of almost all ships...

5. Either get rid of Boresight weapons or make them more powerfull, spending a turn lining up a ship to get a WEAKER main batery attack that other ships in your class...

6. No more FLASH missiles. They were a cool idea but are clearly broken. Just leave it to standard missiles, heavies, and maybe AF.

Please don't take this the wrong way, I don't expect to get most of this. Just think of it as last minute constructive criticism.

SERGE

 

[emperorpenguin]

2. Omegas that DON'T suck. Right now, with the exception of their fighters, every other race has a better battle choice. (Primus, Drakh Cruiser, etc)

4. Make interceptors usefull. Seriously, there is almost no reason to have them against most races. Since beams are the main bateries of almost all ships...

5. Either get rid of Boresight weapons or make them more powerfull, spending a turn lining up a ship to get a WEAKER main batery attack that other ships in your class...

6. No more FLASH missiles. They were a cool idea but are clearly broken. Just leave it to standard missiles, heavies, and maybe AF.
.

SERGE

2. Omegas are getting better, there was some complaints about side firing mini-beams.

4. Well centauri are becoming less beam reliant so you'll need those interceptors versus their ion cannons

5. Boresight is more flexible now

6. Flash now actually has a drawback!

 

[Uriel Ventis]

6. Flash now actually has a drawback!

Will they explode in their launching tube if the ship take a critical hit that affect his weaponry ?
Remember the Kursk , it his a bad idea to hit (or to be hit) by something when your launching tubes are full of armed weapon !!!!

It may be fun in the game.

 

[emperorpenguin]

that kind of incident is best covered by the ammo results in the critical chart imo

 

[Valen is my name]

so what mhappened to flash missiles then? i dont remember a change in them, or have i missed something somewhere again?

 

[emperorpenguin]

so what mhappened to flash missiles then? i dont remember a change in them, or have i missed something somewhere again?

nothing happened yet. the consensus is they give a good advantage for no real drawback

 

[Valen is my name]

but you said that
'they have a real drawback '

 

[emperorpenguin]

but you said that
'they have a real drawback '

yes in 2nd ed they have a drawback

 

[Valen is my name]

oh ok thanks im no longer confused now
oh and where are the straws in the unique ships topic?

 

[emperorpenguin]

oh ok thanks im no longer confused now
oh and where are the straws in the unique ships topic?

you want more straws!? :shock: You loon!

 

[Valen is my name]

im fed up people calling me loony, it really is the last straw!

Only joking, and sorry for the really bad pun

 

[Lord David the Denied]

You guys have all been to the Festival of Life, haven't you? Drunk too much good bravari...

 

[Joe_Dracos]

I want Omega's that have weapons that match the show. There forward battery was a laser pulse array.

Also, they are hard to kill, but they have as much power (in one instance less) as a standard Hyperion Pulse Cruiser.

Interceptors are definately kind of weak. It would make sense if I could pool them (like a stations) and each success negates one hit, not three successes negate one hit. Also Interceptors that can shoot at fighters that are close in.

 

[CZuschlag]

I absolutely adore it when folks go on complaining without considering all that is out there. I'm sorry if this sounds too snide, but let's consider some of the truths posted out there without heavy computation:

1. I will concede to, without complaint. I agree.

2. Not true. The standard Omega is better, without question, than the Tikrit, Wahant, or Kahtrik. It is possibly better than the Lakara, and without question certainly better than the Raiders' BattleNova. While I don't necessarily agree, Triggy objectively considers it far superior to the Drazi options as well. Statement #2 is unfounded hyperbole.

And trust me -- fighter strikes do matter! Ask a Xorr about a worst where you discount fighters, and you'll see a saucer-shaped hull actually grin.

3. I have no issue with this --- as I have no idea what an Earthy feel is.

4. Vs. Early EA: Intercepting 1/6 of all missiles and railguns is GOOD.
Vs. Middle EA: See above.
Vs. Late EA: See above (espeically with all that Chronos)
Vs. Minbari: Virtually useless, but helpful against anyone stupid enough to buy Tigaras against you. Then, it's a game-winner.
Vs. Centauri: Somewhat useful, good for dealing with Elutarians and against Prefects necessary to get past all the Matter Cannons and Twin Arrays, not so much the Prefects. Helps lots vs. Tertius' Plasma Accellerator.
Vs. Narn: Marginally useful, mostly helpful against Ion Torpedoes and the close-range light stuff.
Vs. Vorlons: Worthless.
Vs. Shadows: Afterthought, only helps vs. Shadow Fighters and the Scout, which, in retrospect, you'll need.
Vs. Abbai: Cuts total opponent firepower by at least 1/5. Huge.
Vs. Brakiri: Huge. It is critical to be able to intercept Gravitic Lances.
Vs. Drazi: Somewhat relevant. There are a lot of particle repeaters and blasters to stop. Doesn't stop the particle cannon, though.
Vs. Vree: Huge. May be more valuable than against Abbai!
Vs. Dilgar: Even more huge! Stopping the Bolters is a core concept.
Vs. Drakh: Marginal. It does most any pulse weapon from being relevant.

So ... out of the above, the interceptor is of moderate to major importance at least 8 times out of 14 times. "Make interceptors useful" --- hyperbole.

5. Complaining of weak main batteries? Consider the Abbai Lakara (not even Double Damage!), the Narn G'Quan and Var'Nic (only 3 or 4 dice, and the Var'Nic has no real fighter defense at all), the Avioki and the Wahant (the main battery slow loads, is short range, and both are under speed 6. Nice!). No, the Omega isn't a game-winner, but if it isnt' a Primus, maybe that's because the Primus needs to go down, not you go up.

I'm starting to get absolutely SICK and TIRED of people trying to influence the design of 2e by cranking up the compain volume. It's not you I'm singling out here, pwrserge -- I've seen it for the last 3 frickin' weeks. It's this kind of lobbying that makes politics in democracies ugly. Right now, we're no better than ADM buying politicians.

And I'll take criticism for this too! I participate on the board enough, I get egg on my face as well. I'm not holier than the rest. I've compained too: the Wahant bolters being my most notable, but also against old Minbari stealth and Vree and patrol scouts with good stealth. But it's long since time to stop.

It's entirely possible that all this feedback is just lobbying that will make the product worse, and end up jamming all sorts of pork in the budget.

Here's an idea. Lets just wait. Because there's some truth to this -- we can't compain about needed rebalances in a game that, really, we don't know one darn thing about; and with the changes to Beam, that's exactly what we've got. They know the compaints we've had. Let's see if its fixed, and then make a call. I dont' look forward to escalating lobbying as August approaches ONE BIT.

I await your pointed wrath.

</rant>.

 

[CZuschlag]

Triggy's Battle Ship Rankings -- these are all the ships that Triggy considered to be worse than the Omega, in order --

Garasoch (Dilgar) 4.1338
Hyperion Command (EA) 4.3161
Avenger (DoTA EA) 5.0041
Brokados (Brakiri) 5.1698
Avioki (Brakiri) 5.5402
Apollo (EA) 5.6305
Tikrit (Dilgar) 5.6403
Morshin (Minbari) 5.7042
Raiders Nova (Raiders) 5.9845
Nightfalcon (Drazi) 6.4584
Var’Nic (Narn) 6.2017
Wahant (Dilgar) 6.5949
Omega Pulse (EA) 6.6740
Stormfalcon (Drazi) 6.7663
Balvarix (Centauri) 6.8444
Kahtrik (Dilgar) 7.3252
Orestes (EA) 7.4294
Kaliva (Brakiri) 7.4993
Drakh Cruiser (Drakh) 7.5115
Tinashi (Minbari) 7.5503
Secundus (Centauri) 7.5807
G’Lan (Narn) 7.7184
Xaak (Vree) 7.7456
Marathon (EA) 7.8976
Lakara (Abbai) 7.9195
G’Quan (Narn) 7.9764

For the record, the Omega is ranked 9th BEST.

 

[pwrserge]

We must be talking about a different Omega here, because once you take away it's fighters, (not hard to do with proper tactics) all you have left is an average powered BORESIGHT beam. It would not be nearly as frustrating, if other major races had comprable weapons loads. But every other major race has better loadouts. (Don't forget those e-mines on the G'Quan 6 AD per turn with a blast radius is a fair substitute for 1 AD of beam.) But I digress...

The above was a list of things I wanted adressed. Not necessarily changed, but perhaps just taken a look at.

[Rant]
I am sick and tired of people claiming that EA is the best thing since sliced bread. I have played them for almost two months now and with few notable exceptions gotten my teeth kicked in by superior firepower or fighters or BOTH! Just because a race gets more models does not make it better. You never hear horror stories about EA beam teams or bat squads. (Yes I know the joke on that one but the point is still valid.) I would point out that all three other major races have much better ships than EA and you don't hear people whining about them. :x
[/Rant]

Sorry people, I just have no idea how people come up with rankings that defy common logic.

SERGE

 

[katadder]

well I have been using EA a fair bit recently.
had a 5 hyperion fleet easily take down a combined league fleet.
had a hull 4 fleet take down a minbari fleet (mainly due to starfuries).

the EA have the variability to tackle most problems. and ask the narn about wether they would prefer an extra beam dice or the standard e-mines against your hull 6 omega.
in our campaign the EA are doing quite well apart from when they faced the drakh, although the EA player does have marathons instead of omegas.

 

[pwrserge]

ask the narn about wether they would prefer an extra beam dice or the standard e-mines against your hull 6 omega.

Given that fighters are suposed to be EA's 'Thing' (something that the minbari still do better). Clearing them out in the first two turns of the game IS a huge advantage. Especialy when it means that the 4 AD Frazi flights get to sit in my rear arc unmolested. Oops and there go those interceptors that should have been such a huge advantage. (Fighters fire first and degrade my interceptors against the G'Quan's secondary batteries.)

Also, let's not forget that e-mines get decidedly more lethal in 2nd ed. Being able to catch some of my fighters as well as maybe 1 or 2 ships in a 12 AD TD SAP blast is not a bad trade for loosing a beam die for the rest of the game. (Against a present omega that's an average of 6 hits doing 16 hull 15 crew and a TD crit.) That gives you 60% more damage for the rest of the game AND puts a damper in my fighter strikes.

I would point out that the new Troligan is a far far nastier ship than the Omega and they are supposed to be 'equal'. I just hope that the myth of EA invincibility does not lead to an uplayable or just non EA feeling fleet in 2nd ed.

SERGE

 

[katadder]

for starters you are assuming e-mines can do crits, and that they fire with same amount of AD as they do now. also why against narn would you have fighters anywhere near your ships.
as for narn fighters sitting in rear arc - shoot them after they fire, they die easyenough, me as a narn player would put them in an arc that also has ships. and if the fighters are attacking you then hes no e-mining you at a guess either. then theres the fact your secondaries out range his. then when he comes to close range you drive past and shoot him with ur rear beam.
you are also assuming nothing gets done with the omega. most iconic ships are getting made to fit the role they are supposed to play, believe me the omega is better.
and not sure but was the anti fighter trait mentioned in the preview? theres no blind spot on a ship with the AF trait so the EA again better off with that than with the particle beams they used to have.

 

[H]

i know, why not give the Omega 6Ad SAP triple damage beams in all arcs, hull 7, 20 fighter flights, and Geg, oh and stealth 6... oh I know why, because it really doesn't need it, it's a tough ship, carrying good fighters, with decent all round weapons. It outperforms a lot of ships in it's PL, Like the G'Quan, it sticks around a long time, it's not easy to kill, and it puts out a decent amount of damage. God knows what it will be like in second ed, buti suspect it has already been statted. Sure you can say it doesn't have the damage potential of a drakh cruiser, but hell, it also isn't as breakable as a drakh cruiser. In all the years of playing, I will admit and agree that it isn't the most powerful battleship, but it is also a long way from being the worst!