WWII Evo?

For a start, we need a theatre. I sugggested 42-43 eastern front. But Africa is also fine, my secondary choice. I would not take D-day first, it is very special as a theatre and late in the war.

I would divide the war by years: 39, 40, 41, 42, 43, 44, 45. And maybe ad a what-if year of 46 (and weird stuff?). So eastern front 42-43 would cover two peroids (4 and 5).

Souldman, I would appreciate a method in assigning traits. Best have a list with all traits we want ot use, and later only choose from this list. So our troops will be constistent. Therefore a list of all traits would be good.

Also we need a stat list for the chosen weapons. This list should also have all weapons we want to use, with the following entries:

1. Range
2. Fire zone (3, 6 inches)
3. Damage dice (D6, D10, damage bonus)
4. Splash damage (0, 1, 2, 3, 4 inches radius)
5. Set up mode (no setup, +1 or more damage die, how many actions)
6. Suppression rule (2+/3+, count double)
7. Extreme range (y/n)
8. Crew (1, 2, 3, 4. . . and minimum crew)
9. Special rules (indirect fire, semi-indirect fire, firing arcs, sniper. . .)

Last we should think about tanks and anti-tank guns.

To show how clumsy WWII tanks were I would let tanks always need a ready action to move or shoot the main gun (20+mm). A tank could thus only fire the main gun when moving or move twice with a third action. The main gun (20+mm) is restricted to one shot per game turn.
Thus a standing tank could to fire its MGs (or machine cannons up to 20mm) twice, what is fine.
That would make a big differnce to the later generation tanks of BFE.

Pak (anti-tank guns) need to be set up to fire. They need a crew. Missing crewmen cost one action, until the minimum crew is reached. Guns under minimum crew loose two actions (can only fire with a third action). Some guns, the bigger ones, would need two actions to set up.

Infantry: There is no widespread body armour in WWII (exept flak jackets and helmets, 6+, and steel body plates and helmet, 6+). All troops have a T4+/ K6+ (and maybe K5+). So the traits have to be the deal for the intantry (maybe allow a 6+ save for speical training?). Gun shields could give a 6+ save. Also movement could be taken to differ troops.

The two start factions (however they are) should have:
Squad entries (3 to 4)
Command entries (1 to 2)
Transport entries (1 to 2, one unarmoured, one armoured?)
Armour entries (2 to 3, one light tank, one medium tank and one assault gun?)
Support entries (3 to 4, MG, mortar, light PAK, medium PAK?)
Air entires (1 to 2)
 
Both armies field now famous tanks, artillery and anti-tank guns. Even the infantry weapons of both sides are still famous. Every wargamer in the world has heard of the battles fought.

Stalingrad yes, Kursk no. BF:Evo is essentially an infantry game with the odd tank thrown in. Best to start with campaigns that are infantry-heavy and well known, with a lot of variery. D Day would be ideal.
 
OK, seen a lot, read a lot. I will have several posts here covering different topics.

First, I know this is a game ... but ther is a thing called PHYSICS.

I have read many posts talking about the SMG's and how they should have a 20" range for single fire....yeah...NO.

You must remember the SMG uses pistol ammunition, thus they only have an effective range of 50 yards. Granted they spit a lot of lead. Also that the round is smaller and contains less powder. So by no means should a SMG have the same damage factors as a rifle. Unless you are playing a Roleplaying game, like weapons should be the same....obviously except for historically based weapon systems..(e.g. MG34/42 vs. .30 cal MG, .50cal vs other HMGs)

As far as range is concerned, if the basis for an assault rifle to be 20" we must base all others off that. The M16 effective range is 460 meters---round it down to 400m to make things easy...thus each inch is 20m.(23m per inch is tedious).

A smg range would then be 2.5 inches...but not playable

Sooo

SMG (period)
Range: 6"
Damage: 2XD6-1
 
Second,

My two centovos worth on period. As it has been stated earlier-- determine the base and modify it from there.

Early war is perfect for this. Poland, France, Yugoslavia and the Balkans, Operation Barbarossa--Invasion of the Soviet Union. This is when everyone is on an even Steven. Though only diferences have to deal with tactics and training.

Most combat between tanks is very eqaul, except for below. There needs to be nationality modifiers for training or experience, and command and control problems. The French could have easily won the war if they had a competent leader. Hell they even invaded Germany in '39 and met no resistance because all the Germans were in Poland. But what happened, they thought they were walking into an ambush and retreated back to France. Just think if the French had actually fought there would have been 100 million less casaulties.

French tanks and artillery were much better than the German's. The Char-B's were monsters with a bad radiator location. The Soviets also had monster tanks...T-28's, T-35's and the KV serries

You would want to start off a rule set were everything is at its weakest and build stronger forces from there. Not build a strong force were you subtract abilities. Think about it World War Two was a progression of technological and tactical achievement.

So Start at the begining!
 
Third,

Let's take another look on range. I know most people play on small tables (4'x6') but do we really have to effect the range of weapon systems to fit the table. Are you telling me that a rifle round can go half as far as an artillery round on the table. People seem to forget that just because something can shoot across the table doesn't mean that it has line of sight to the target. What is the point of a tank that can only shoot 3 blocks. Tigers were constantly destroying T-34's at a range of 2,500 meters and longer. The Russian steps were great at providing vast areas of open spaces...France on the other hand does not, this is one of the reasons the Tiger was not as effective fighting the Allied Invasion.

Personally I am always amused when a rule set claims that the range of an artillery piece that can reach 10 miles can only shoot 40" on a game table. Realisticly artillery shold not even be on a table unless they are the objective.

Even in BFEVO the Abrams has a range of 72" and a M16 has range of 20". So even though the Abrams main gun has a range of 3,500m and the M16 about 400m we only see about a 3.6 times modifier instead of over 8:1. Basically a heavy weapon system should be--"If you can see it, you can hit it"
 
Soulman saying hi, so sorry i havr not the time at the weekend to do stats etc, all my info is on my other machine..

I have tanks ready to go, but its infantry first, if i remember if a tank moves first before firing, then its a -1 to the damage roll, again i need to check this out...

As for infantry stats i have, i think some are on paper so i will pull them out and type them here....

Weapon stats should not be a problem, but i would like traits to flesh out each army etc....

I have a look round later today
 
I'm not liking the way you worded that -1 if the tank moves thing. Reason is simple, you could fire then move without the penalty. If your going to use such a rule it has to work if the tank takes ANY movement during the turn.

As for the range thing. There is a very good reason to have shorten ranges. Game Play. I'll state it again. When facts get in the way of game play or fun, Fun wins out everytime. Rule number 1 when designing a game.

I do agree with the submachinegun rule of keeping it short. 6" to 8" maximum. 2xD6-1, or 2xD6 at best. Be careful of adding extra suppression mainly because of the number of dice such a weapon will have with SMG armed units, such as Russian Guard. Might be better to not add any. I prefer to leave extra suppression to mgs.
 
Evening Old soldier, i will be getting my pc back on tuesday, and will need to re-install windows etc, once i get my files up i will check, the -1 was i think from the ww2 mongoose playtest group, i will need to check.

When it comes down to the tanks we need to look at turret movement, and tanks moving and firing etc....

I like to see a min and max range on the tank guns when firing at infantry etc as well..

After the weekend i can write up weapons and infantry stats for people to pick at.

As for the year periods, i will need somebody to sort out the squad sizes etc, but the rest should be easy.

Cheers
Alan
 
I go with TOS for the SMGs. . . and he is right, increased suppression should be for the MGs, not SMGs. It is a further point to differ "light" MGs as Bren and Bar from rifles. And SMGs get no extreme range.

I do not like -1 to damage for moving tanks, it makes them shoot and move far too easy. And it is a new movement rule that we do not need. We have actions for this kind of rule question.
I would not add turret movement, it will make the game too complex. Better give assault guns a front facing firing arc, and turret tanks 360 degrees firung arc.
I think tanks in WWII should be clearly different from BFE tanks, therefore my idea with making them ready to move or shoot. That will also cope with slower turret traverse times.
 
Agree on the very short SMG ranges but think that suppression might be an idea for them, as large units of SMG equiped soldiers would have a suppressive factor, so..

what about one dice of suppression per 3 or 4 SMGs used.

represents the effectiveness of multiple automatic weapons fire.
 
duskdealer said:
Agree on the very short SMG ranges but think that suppression might be an idea for them, as large units of SMG equiped soldiers would have a suppressive factor, so..

what about one dice of suppression per 3 or 4 SMGs used.

represents the effectiveness of multiple automatic weapons fire.

How many of your guys have played this game??? While it sound really good on paper, I suggest you take 10 or 12 models with smgs and fire them them at the enemy models. You are going to generate 24 DICE!!!!

You do not need any suppression addition. Now if you kept the dice down to a 1D6, I might agree with you, but I can not if you insist on 2XD6!!!

Damnation people take the time to think it out. I'm getting this really creapy feeling that most are just tossing rules around like handgrenades and have NO CLUE, what they are doing.....


This is getting silly....... :x
 
Richgo22 said:
I think tanks in WWII should be clearly different from BFE tanks, therefore my idea with making them ready to move or shoot. That will also cope with slower turret traverse times.
Why should be they clearly different? You won't field them both in the same game after all...
Try not to overdo this thing, or you'll find out that the tanks can't keep up with the infantry on battlefield...
 
Pietia, has it right.

If you must show the difference, it would be much simpler to have a -1 to Target/Kill IF the tank did or will be going to move during it's turn. Cuts out a bunch of stuff.
 
And thats the best thing with Evo, keep it simple and have fun..!!!!

Its best to have a TRAIT for turrets, that says something along the lines of
SLOW TURRET : -1 to Target if shooting in left/right/rear arcs...?

To show the slow turning to follow the target, as most turrets point forward..

Also the Rule i remember from WW2 Evo, was about the non giro turrets, which i think was if you moved before shooting its a -1 to Target.

On a side note, i would like a -1 or -2 to Target infantry, as they are fast moving buggers, and well thats what Mgs are for..!!!!.

I never liked the modern Rpg of 1D10, against tanks and infantry, as hitting the infantry would be harder, maybe the tank gun could be 1D6 against infantry, and 1D10 about tanks and buildings..?

Have a think about it peeps...!!!

Keep with the ideas, but keep it simple, i make a note of them all....
 
As for No Gyostablisation is a penalty for Firing and Moving in the same turn. Some of the later US Tanks did have some Gyostabilisation Gear [A Perk maybe]
Posible Modifiers to keep it simple.
If you moved -1
If they Moved -1
If you and them Moved -2

As for the Bolt Action Rifle vs SMG
Bolt Action Rifle
Damage: 1d6
Range: 24"
Supression: 3+
Bolt Action: Unless a Ready Action: Aim was Done on an earlier Turn and is still in place may only take One shot a Turn

SMG
Damage: 1d6
Range: 12"
Supress: 2+

As far as just "Throwing OUT Rules at Random" If you have an Idiea it needs to be posted or it will be lost.
We have tried some of my early Idieas and they seem to work,most becouse all the units are basicaly the same and use the same rules and there were very few "Special Rules".
 
Anpu42 said:
As for No Gyostablisation is a penalty for Firing and Moving in the same turn. Some of the later US Tanks did have some Gyostabilisation Gear [A Perk maybe]
Posible Modifiers to keep it simple.
If you moved -1
If they Moved -1
If you and them Moved -2

To much record keeping to suit me. Just a simple -1 to Target/Kill if they tank is going to move or has moved in that turn will suffice.



As for the Bolt Action Rifle vs SMG
Bolt Action Rifle
Damage: 1d6
Range: 24"
Supression: 3+
Bolt Action: Unless a Ready Action: Aim was Done on an earlier Turn and is still in place may only take One shot a Turn.

Remove the Ready Action part. The Supression 3+ represents the slower rate of fire, so you need no more than that.

SMG
Damage: 1d6
Range: 12"
Supress: 2+

Drop the range between 6 and 8", and this will be fine. Otherwise it is pure fantasy.
 
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