WWII Evo?

[Anpu42]

US army Infantry Squad
Points: ?
Type: Squad
Size Move Close Combat Target Armor Kill
1 5” 2xD6 4+ 6+ 6+
Sergeant w/M1 Garand, 10 x Riflemen w/M1 Garand, 1 x Gunner w/BAR
Options
The Sergeant May Replace his M! Garand with a Thompson SMG
M1 Garand Rifle: Range: 24” Damage: D6
Thompson SMG: Range: 12” Damage: D6
BAR: Range: 30” Damage: 2xD6
BAR: If a Ready action is taken to set this weapon up properly (lie prone, extend bipod, etc), then all subsequent Shoot actions will gain two bonus Damage Dice though it may only shoot in its forward facing. These bonus dice are lost as soon as the model moves. In addition, every Damage Dice this weapon rolls will count as two for the purposes of Suppression only. If every model in the target unit is assigned two or more Damage Dice when this weapon is used, the unit will lose two actions from Suppression, rather than just one.
its normal
Thompson SMG: If a Ready action is taken to set this weapon up properly (lie prone, extend bipod, etc), then all subsequent Shoot actions will gain One bonus Damage Die though it may only shoot in its forward facing. These bonus dice are lost as soon as the model moves. In addition, every Damage Dice this weapon rolls will count as two for the purposes of Suppression only. If every model in the target unit is assigned two or more Damage Dice when this weapon is used, the unit will lose two actions from Suppression, rather than just one.

 

[The Old Soldier]

No offence, but ?????!!!!!!

A Thompson does not set up. D4+1 but count two for suppression. Range 10".
BAR 1D6. If set up with a ready action it may fire to it's forward facing and is given a 1D6 bonus. If another model in the squad is touching the BAR models base, it may act as a assistant. Doing so will allow the BAR to have it's DD count 2 for suppression in addition it will Give a Bonus 1D6.
The M1 was a semi-automatic weapon with a small clip. The US soldiers had a slightly shorter range than the Germans with thier bolt action rifle, but due to the clip they could lay down some serious fire power. D6-1 but a FZ including M1s have suppression checked after models are removed. This make the US troops better able to lay down suppression on the enemy.

Armor ratings for Infantry. On this subject it maybe better to tie in the rating to two different topics, since there are no body armor.

1. Tied to different forms of cover.
2. Tied to different levels of training.

The first is would mean a new way to deal with Terrain. Something quite lacking in MP rules. The Latter would be tied in to unit upgrades.

 

[Pietia]

Remember that both US and German squads (not sure about the Brits) divided their squads into fireteams ;-)

 

[The Old Soldier]

Remember that both US and German squads (not sure about the Brits) divided their squads into fireteams ;-)

Depends on the year and the troops. But normally yes.

 

[Anpu42]

I think we need to look at this in a different way. We [myself included] have been trying to make WWII: BEvo compatible with The Modern Battlefield Evolution. What we should be doing is working on making a simple to use Man-To-Man Squad level WWII Table Top Game that is Fast and Easy to use.
Taking an earlier suggestion lets start with the basics, the Standard Infantry Battle Rifle of WWII, The “.30” Caliber Bolt Action Rifle. To my knowledge there is not a single army in WWII that did not use it at one time and it saw action in every battle of WWII.
France: MAS [7.5mm]
Germany: Mauser Kar [7.92mm] Also, Italy & Romania
Italy: Fucile Modello 1891 [6.5mm]
Japan: Ariska [7.7mm]
Poland: Mauser Kar 98 [7.92mm]
UK: SMLE #4 Rifle [.303] Also Australia, Canada, and France
USA: M1903 Springfield [.30-06] Also France
USSR: Mosin-Nagant 1891/30 [7.62mmL]
This should be the standard that all other systems should be measured. The one thing that makes BEvo work so well is the simple dice convention, I roll my bucket of d6’s and look for anything with 4 or more dots on it. This makes the game simple to teach, learn and play for almost any age. Unless we are planning on having time traveling US army Rangers try to kill Hitler [Though this could be fun] we should try to make the game what it is Fast and Easy.
The standard should be this.
“.30 Caliber Bolt Action Rifle”
Range: 24” Damage: d6

Thank you for your time
Anpu42
=0o0=

 

[The Old Soldier]

Compatable to BFE? BFE is a good set of rules, but has plenty of warts when it comes to unit stats and Army list. Not to mention a lacking Terrain, and Command Control. I'd rather see a set based on the concepts of BFE, but with historical flavor, and fine tuning.

 

[Anpu42]

Here are two basic Squads, One British & One German
British Army Infantry Squad
Points: ?
Type: Squad
Size Move Close Combat Target Armor Kill
1 5” 2xD6 4+ 6+ 6+
Sergeant w/Sten SMG, 8 x Riflemen w/SMLE #4 Rifles, 1 x Gunner w/Bren Gun
Options
None
SMLE #4: Range: 24” Damage: D6
Sten SMG: Range: 12” Damage: 2xD6-1
Bren Gun: Range: 30” Damage: 2xD6
Bren Gun: If a Ready action is taken to set this weapon up properly (lie prone, extend bipod, etc), then all subsequent Shoot actions will gain two bonus Damage Dice though it may only shoot in its forward facing. These bonus dice are lost as soon as the model moves. In addition, every Damage Dice this weapon rolls will count as two for the purposes of Suppression only. If every model in the target unit is assigned two or more Damage Dice when this weapon is used, the unit will lose two actions from Suppression, rather than just one.
Sten SMG: If a Ready action is taken to set this weapon up properly (lie prone, brace agenst a wall or vehicle, etc), then all subsequent Shoot actions will gain Two bonus Damage Die though it may only shoot in its forward facing. These bonus dice are lost as soon as the model moves. In addition, every Damage Dice this weapon rolls will count as two for the purposes of Suppression only. If every model in the target unit is assigned two or more Damage Dice when this weapon is used, the unit will lose two actions from Suppression, rather than just one.

German Rifle Squad
Points: ?
Type: Squad
Size Move Close Combat Target Armor Kill
1 5” 2xD6 4+ 6+ 6+
Sergeant w/MP-40 SMG, 7 x Riflemen w/Kar 98k Rifle, 1 x Gunner w/MG-34
Options
None
Kar 98k: Range: 24” Damage: D6
MP-40 SMG: Range: 12” Damage: 2xD6-1
MG-34: Range: 30” Damage: 3xD6
MG-34: If a Ready action is taken to set this weapon up properly (lie prone, extend bipod, etc), then all subsequent Shoot actions will gain two bonus Damage Dice though it may only shoot in its forward facing. These bonus dice are lost as soon as the model moves. In addition, every Damage Dice this weapon rolls will count as two for the purposes of Suppression only. If every model in the target unit is assigned two or more Damage Dice when this weapon is used, the unit will lose two actions from Suppression, rather than just one.
MP-40: If a Ready action is taken to set this weapon up properly (lie prone, brace agenst a wall or vehicle, etc), then all subsequent Shoot actions will gain Two bonus Damage Die though it may only shoot in its forward facing. These bonus dice are lost as soon as the model moves. In addition, every Damage Dice this weapon rolls will count as two for the purposes of Suppression only. If every model in the target unit is assigned two or more Damage Dice when this weapon is used, the unit will lose two actions from Suppression, rather than just one.



.

 

[The Old Soldier]

What is with this set up stuff for Sub-machine guns?? Where is that info coming from?

 

[Richgo22]

Lads, I like your ideas, but a playable game set on BF:E should be kept simple. And comparable to the original. Think of a set of games, where you can mix WW2, BF:E and SST:E.

Historical flavour comes from the special rules on the unit card, not from too compelx weapons rules.
I like the idea of bolt-actions rilfes als standard infanty weapons. They would have a longer range that BF:E ak-type assault rifles, but would not be able to shoot the higher rate of fire of modern assault rifles.
I would give them a d6 and 24 inches range, but only count two damage dice as one for supression.

Only MGs, sniper rifles, anti-tank rifles and mortars need set-up rules.

I would love rules vor PAK (Anti-tank gun). That would really differ the game from BF:E.

I like your ideas for veterans and elite troops, old soldier. These are very fine. I also like you views on the Stuard.

WW2 tanks should be strongly recommended to shoot the main gun while standing.

Many WW2 weapons would have a stronger punch than BF:E weapons (execpt tank main guns) but would lack in rate of fire and accuracy.

 

[Anpu42]

What is with this set up stuff for Sub-machine guns?? Where is that info coming from?

That was somthing I was thinking about wile watching an epasode of "Combat". Saunders used his Thompson for supression fire alot.

 

[The Old Soldier]

What is with this set up stuff for Sub-machine guns?? Where is that info coming from?

That was somthing I was thinking about wile watching an epasode of "Combat". Saunders used his Thompson for supression fire alot.

:lol: :lol: :lol:

BFC Battlefield Combat! :wink:

 

[Bondarus]

Setting up a sten gun?

Have you guys ever even seen the weapon you are talking about? :lol:

Its not a dig, because I love the idea of a WW2 evo, but suggesting you need to set up a tommy gun or a sten gun is completely out of sync with the idea and the reason for which they were built.

 

[Anpu42]

Ok how about this

British Army Infantry Squad
Points: ?
Type: Squad
Size Move Close Combat Target Armor Kill
1 5” 2xD6 4+ 6+ 6+
Sergeant w/Sten SMG, 8 x Riflemen w/SMLE #4 Rifles, 1 x Gunner w/Bren Gun
Options
None
SMLE #4: Range: 24” Damage: D6
Sten SMG: Range: 12” Damage: 2xD6-1
Bren Gun: Range: 30” Damage: 2xD6
Bren Gun: If a Ready action is taken to set this weapon up properly (lie prone, extend bipod, etc), then all subsequent Shoot actions will gain two bonus Damage Dice though it may only shoot in its forward facing. These bonus dice are lost as soon as the model moves. In addition, every Damage Dice this weapon rolls will count as two for the purposes of Suppression only. If every model in the target unit is assigned two or more Damage Dice when this weapon is used, the unit will lose two actions from Suppression, rather than just one.


German Rifle Squad
Points: ?
Type: Squad
Size Move Close Combat Target Armor Kill
1 5” 2xD6 4+ 6+ 6+
Sergeant w/MP-40 SMG, 8 x Riflemen w/Kar 98k Rifle, 1 x Gunner w/MG-34
Options
The Gunner may replace his MG-34 with a MG-42
Kar 98k: Range: 24” Damage: D6
MP-40 SMG: Range: 12” Damage: 2xD6-1
MG-34: Range: 30” Damage: 3xD6
MG-42: Range: 30’ Damage: 4xd6
MG-34: If a Ready action is taken to set this weapon up properly (lie prone, extend bipod, etc), then all subsequent Shoot actions will gain two bonus Damage Dice though it may only shoot in its forward facing. These bonus dice are lost as soon as the model moves. In addition, every Damage Dice this weapon rolls will count as two for the purposes of Suppression only. If every model in the target unit is assigned two or more Damage Dice when this weapon is used, the unit will lose two actions from Suppression, rather than just one.
MG-42: If a Ready action is taken to set this weapon up properly (lie prone, extend bipod, etc), then all subsequent Shoot actions will gain two bonus Damage Dice though it may only shoot in its forward facing. These bonus dice are lost as soon as the model moves. In addition, every Damage Dice this weapon rolls will count as two for the purposes of Suppression only. If every model in the target unit is assigned two or more Damage Dice when this weapon is used, the unit will lose two actions from Suppression, rather than just one.



.

 

[Richgo22]

Not bad.
I would give the MG 34 and 42 three or four bonus damage dice, or give the Bren only one.

How would you like to picture heavy MGs, mean MG 34 or 42 on tripods?

 

[The Old Soldier]

To gain all those extra bonuses for the MGs you really need to have at least a assistant gunner with the gunner model. Any other model in the unit will do. Look at my example of one with the USArmy squad I suggested.

 

[Anpu42]

How about this for the German Squad.

German Rifle Squad
Points: ?
Type: Squad
Size Move Close Combat Target Armor Kill
1 5” 2xD6 4+ 6+ 6+
1x Sergeant: w/MP-40 SMG
1x Assistant Squad leader: w/ Kar 98k Rifle
6xRiflemen: w/Kar 98k Rifle
1x Gunner: w/MG-34
1x Assistant Gunner: Kar 98k Rifle
Options
The Assistant Squad Leader may replace his Kar 98k Rifle with an MP-40 SMG
The Gunner may replace his MG-34 with a MG-42
Weapons
-Kar 98k: Range: 24” Damage: D6
-MP-40 SMG: Range: 12” Damage: 2xD6-1
-MG-34: Range: 30” Damage: 3xD6
-MG-42: Range: 30’ Damage: 4xd6
Special
-Fire Teams: Teams may be split off from the squad to act as independent units, with the Sergeant acting as the unit leader for one squad. The Assistant Squad Leader must join the other team and act as its unit leader. This may be done before the start of the battle or at the beginning of any turn.
-MG-34: If a Ready action is taken to set this weapon up properly (lie prone, extend bipod, etc), then all subsequent Shoot actions will gain two bonus Damage Dice though it may only shoot in its forward facing. These bonus dice are lost as soon as the model moves. In addition, every Damage Dice this weapon rolls will count as two for the purposes of Suppression only. If every model in the target unit is assigned three or more Damage Dice when this weapon is used, the unit will lose two actions from Suppression, rather than just one.
-MG-42: If a Ready action is taken to set this weapon up properly (lie prone, extend bipod, etc), then all subsequent Shoot actions will gain two bonus Damage Dice though it may only shoot in its forward facing. These bonus dice are lost as soon as the model moves. In addition, every Damage Dice this weapon rolls will count as two for the purposes of Suppression only. If every model in the target unit is assigned four or more Damage Dice when this weapon is used, the unit will lose two actions from Suppression, rather than just one.

 

[Anpu42]

I think that with the Assiastant Gunner and as a balance factor one should leave the Bren Gun with the 2 additinal Dice. Aslo it had a good Rate of fire and a large [for the time] Magazine.

British Army Infantry Squad
Points: ?
Type: Squad
Size Move Close Combat Target Armor Kill
1 5” 2xD6 4+ 6+ 6+
 1x Sergeant w/Sten SMG
 1x Assistant Squad Leader: w/ SMLE #4 Rifle
 6x Riflemen: w/SMLE #4 Rifles
 1 x Gunner: w/Bren Gun
 1x Assistant Gunner: w/SMLE #4 Rifle
Options
None
Weapons
 SMLE #4: Range: 24” Damage: D6
 Sten SMG: Range: 12” Damage: 2xD6-1
 Bren Gun: Range: 30” Damage: 2xD6
Special
 Fire Teams: Teams may be split off from the squad to act as independent units, with the Sergeant acting as the unit leader for one squad. The Assistant Squad Leader must join the other team and act as its unit leader. This may be done before the start of the battle or at the beginning of any turn.
 Bren Gun: If a Ready action is taken to set this weapon up properly (lie prone, extend bipod, etc), then all subsequent Shoot actions will gain two bonus Damage Dice though it may only shoot in its forward facing. These bonus dice are lost as soon as the model moves. In addition, every Damage Dice this weapon rolls will count as two for the purposes of Suppression only. If every model in the target unit is assigned two or more Damage Dice when this weapon is used, the unit will lose two actions from Suppression, rather than just one.

 

[Richgo22]

The Bren had a top loading magazine. . . with 30 rounds, eh? Made it hard to fire prone.
The MG34 and 42 used drum magazines (with belts) or clean belt-feeds. The belts had 50 rounds or 250 rounds. Both are real killers, when it comes to rate of fire and sustained fire. Both do not like dirt and snow.

I would let the Bren be one-man operated, and give it one damage die when set up. Same for the BAR. That will differ both from modern light MGs. The Bren and BAR would be more agile in combat.

The MG34 and 42 would need two men to operate, as The Old Soldier said. That would give them two or three damage more dice when set up. You could give both weapons an option for a thrid man (Mun-Keuler, ammo carrier), which gives both three or four damage more dice when set up. That will make both MGs nasty, but not so agile as the Bren and BAR.

 

[DM]

The Bren had a top loading magazine. . . with 30 rounds, eh? Made it hard to fire prone.

Really? It never gave me any problems.

 

[Anpu42]

WWII BEvo Machine Guns
Revised 07/27/07 10:25 PST
.303 Besa
Range: 30”
Damage: 3xd6
.303 Bren Gun
Range: 30”
Damage: 2xd6
.30 M1918
Range: 30”
Damage: 3xd6
Vickers Heavy Machine Gun
Range: 36”
Damage: 2xd6+1
.50 M2HB
Range: 36”
Damage: 2xd6+1
MG 34
Range: 30”
Damage: 3xd6
MG-42
Range: 30”
Damage: 4xd6

It looks like the Rifles are going to work. I am still working on the M1 Garand.
As for Machine guns,
As for the Bren Gun and BAR is it suggested adding only one d6 for a ready action, that could work once you look at the M1918, Vickers HMG and the .50 Cal M2 as getting two. As far as the MG-34 & MG 42 how would you work out how many Dice they get.
How many Assistant Gunners would need to be close to get the bonus?
How Close would they need to be?
Would it take more than two men to carry the weapon?
My thought was just making the MG-34 a Ready Action to get Two extra Dice. The MG-42 gets three. I don’t remember the numbers, but I remember it having a obscene Rate of Fire.
I could be:
MG-34: One extra Ready Die for one Ready Action and Two for Two Ready Actions.
MG-42 Two extra Ready Dice for one Ready Action and Three for Two Ready Actions.
But that could get complicated and litter the field with even more tokens.