Why X-Boat tenders

[Sigtrygg]

It is still a lot slower to tug the x-boat to a station than to have a mobile station...

 

[AnotherDilbert]

You can easily has two or three standard station designs and like the tenders would not be dependent on the system for maintenance. You would also get the 10% discount for multiple builds

It the stations can't jump away for maintenance, they are dependent on the local system for logistics. If they can jump, they are effectively tenders.

A station can't perform all the stated functions of a tender, e.g.:

Express boat tenders are jump capable, and each may carry up to four xboats in its cavernous ship bay. As a result, the tenders can be found in fringe or off-route systems ferrying extra xboats to areas that need them. They also undertake recovery missions to pick up damaged xboats or boats which have misjumped to off-route systems.

With stations, you would still need tenders (and fuel shuttles to refuel the tenders or stations)...

 

[AnotherDilbert]

Don't forget a 10% discount for the tenders.

You could have a Docking Facility for any craft, instead of specific Hangars?

Some Clamps would allow you to hold a few more craft externally?

 

[Condottiere]

There's no penalty except for movement.

With full hangars, you just divide capacity in half, but could fairly easily perform maintenance on any spacecraft you happen to have spare parts for.

 

[Arkathan]

You can easily has two or three standard station designs and like the tenders would not be dependent on the system for maintenance. You would also get the 10% discount for multiple builds

I thought I had attached examples earlier, edited above add them. to See if that was what you were thinking of or are you thinking a standard tender w/o a Jump or maneuver drive?
When the price points are close, the team with the most pilots loses on monthly expenses.

 

[Arkathan]

You could have a Docking Facility for any craft, instead of specific Hangars?

Some Clamps would allow you to hold a few more craft externally?

Of course. I looked at 1 hangar and 3 docking facilities, but the cost savings was not that great.
The Scout service is building them, so some cost cutting is expected.
Docking clamps seems a little too frugal to me, but you could definitely do it.

 

[Nelphine]

Why do those tugs need 32 tons of fuel?

How does the station compare to standard tenders for smallcraft capacity? Ideally it should be the same for most common systems. So if the standard system has 2 tenders, then the station should have the same smallcraft capacity as 2 tenders.

 

[Arkathan]

Multi-purpose. You could change them to Combo Cargo/fuel tanks, and I initially did have them that way.
Refilling the station, and the Xboat still need refueling. Those batteries only power the Jump Drive, not the life support for the week in jump plus time to get tended or, in this case, towed.

 

[tytalan]

Of course. I looked at 1 hangar and 3 docking facilities, but the cost savings was not that great.
The Scout service is building them, so some cost cutting is expected.
Docking clamps seems a little too frugal to me, but you could definitely do it.

You use both docking clamps and an internal bay for repairs.

 

[tytalan]

“Express boat tenders are jump capable, and each may carry up to four xboats in its cavernous ship bay. As a result, the tenders can be found in fringe or off-route systems ferrying extra xboats to areas that need them. They also undertake recovery missions to pick up damaged xboats or boats which have misjumped to off-route systems.”

You still use tenders in these Fringe or off-route/short term stops.

 

[shinjox]

In the original LBB version ship construction [both Book 2 and High Guard], there wasn't any room in a 100 dton hull for a maneuver drive after figuring in the tonnage for a 'mail distribution system'. The mail system tonnage was a complete guess-timate, as there was no reference as to how much server space terabytes of X-mail would take up. Given that the X-Boat system was originally designed in the era where home computers were flipping over cassettes and having 5 and quarter floppy drive was high-speed/low-drag, the designers opted for 'a lot' and left it at that.

So, because the X-boat itself needed to retrieved from wherever it popped in from J-space, refueled, the crew rotated, and the data-packets exchanged, the designers came up with a ship that could act as a mobile 'Pony Express station' in space. XBT's can do light repairs, refuel, bring spare crewmen, and bring spare X-boats to back to base. For an information system designed in 1977, it's worked surprisingly well.

As for making a stationary mail station, that's not a bad idea except that astrogation for J-space isn't that precise. It takes accurate charts and a VERY experience navigator to get the same jump course to arrive within hundreds of klicks of your position the last time you tried it. Since the X-boats don't have maneuver drives, the 'postal station' has to come to them.

I mean, it also is carrying updated news from all over Charted Space. Its not just carrying news for say the system it just entered. Say a x-boat leaves a planet in the core, heading for the farthest reaches Coreward. It hits the next system, sends its data, updates its data, collecting any other e-news, etcetra. It has to have a robust and large amount of memory to do this. Imagine having to essentially have the equivalent of all the electronic media of Earth, times a thousand. Sure, eventually it has to get old stuff scrubed, but it is carrying a...heheh boat load of info. Its not system specific.

 

[ottarrus]

I mean, it also is carrying updated news from all over Charted Space. Its not just carrying news for say the system it just entered. Say a x-boat leaves a planet in the core, heading for the farthest reaches Coreward. It hits the next system, sends its data, updates its data, collecting any other e-news, etcetra. It has to have a robust and large amount of memory to do this. Imagine having to essentially have the equivalent of all the electronic media of Earth, times a thousand. Sure, eventually it has to get old stuff scrubed, but it is carrying a...heheh boat load of info. Its not system specific.

Not to mention some space for high-priority packages... say 10 dtons or so ... for items requiring physical transfer.

I tend to think that most X-Boat pilots [they're not really 'pilots' per se, they're astrogators] have a route that takes them from one major Way Station to another several months or maybe a year down the way and then return. Senior Scout 'Eneri' typically works the Trin to Regina run, for example. He does three or four jumps and then gets maybe a couple weeks off, and then uses actual leave time at each end of the run. By the time he finishes a term of service, he's completed the whole run about 3 times.

 

[tytalan]

You need as many tugs as you would tenders. And those craft will need full life support, not just the 24 hours of basic life support for small craft.
And your transit time for getting the XBoats ready is still multiplied by two.
As I said, You do you. Just don't keep arguing a point proven to be a matter of opinion.

One no your transit time is not multiplied by two. You do understand that such a station would not be in orbit of a planet right.
No you wouldn’t need full life support for the tugs this is part of your assumption that the station would be orbiting a world. I can actually prove my point economically.

 

[tytalan]

Eight Tenders is excessive. Few places will need anything more than 4-5.
Jewell/Jewell/Spinward Marches has four routes and there are five routes in Bahadur/Sabine/Deneb and Buagki/Strand/Corridor. So those are outliers.
Most others will need a pair and a spare.

Don't forget a 10% discount for the tenders.
A station will either need to be based on either the needs of that system, the worst case scenario, or have multiple stations. Most likely NOT a standardized design unless you go the multiple stations route.

Well you certainly showed that you can always twist the numbers to prove your point.
1 a tender only has 1 full dock so you massively over did that.
2 10 grappling arms for 4 X-Boats over done a little
3 you do realize that at M2 you can reach mars in less than a week right no reason for extended life support
I can literally design a station at half that tonnage that will do the job better with a better cost efficiency.
TL 13 why the station is easily made self efficient needing a restock from a TL 15 system once every 4 to 6 months.
I’ll put up my design sometime this week

 

[Arkathan]

Well you certainly showed that you can always twist the numbers to prove your point.
1 a tender only has 1 full dock so you massively over did that.
2 10 grappling arms for 4 X-Boats over done a little
3 you do realize that at M2 you can reach mars in less than a week right no reason for extended life support
I can literally design a station at half that tonnage that will do the job better with a better cost efficiency.
TL 13 why the station is easily made self efficient needing a restock from a TL 15 system once every 4 to 6 months.
I’ll put up my design sometime this week

1. I stated as much, however the cost savings was measured in five figures.
2. 10 grappling arms allows the station to move 100 tons, exactly the amount required to stuff a non-manuevering X-boat into whatever hole you choose to put it in. Also not particularly expensive.
3. You do realize that a standard small craft has life support for 24 hours of operation, Yes? If your pilot is going to be out for more than 24 hours, you will need somewhere for them to eat/sleep/etc.

Smaller: Someone asked you to. So go do that.

 

[Arkathan]

One no your transit time is not multiplied by two. You do understand that such a station would not be in orbit of a planet right.
No you wouldn’t need full life support for the tugs this is part of your assumption that the station would be orbiting a world. I can actually prove my point economically.

A tender goes out and tends the Boat.
A tug goes out. Gets the Xboat. A tug goes in. Boat gets tended.
A station in open space not at a Le Grange point is in an unstable orbit. Le Grange points move. At some point, unless the target star's disc is seen as a circle from the point of origination, the 100D limit of the star will occlude the station. This means an Xboat cannot just pop out at the 100D radius of the station during a large percentage of the orbit, which would be calculated based on the position seven days from the date of departure, but would be up to 1.5 days off in either direction.

As has been stated repeatedly, You do you.

 

[Nelphine]

Id personally make it a station orbitting outside the 100d of a planet outside the 100D of the star. That way you can have a stable location for all xboats to jump to.

 

[Arkathan]

Id personally make it a station orbitting outside the 100d of a planet outside the 100D of the star. That way you can have a stable location for all xboats to jump to.

But remember that the 100d limit of a star goes above and below the plane of the ecliptic.
Relative to your starting point, you need that plane to be angled so that the planet is never occluded in order to always be able to jump to that point. Otherwise, for a sizeable minority of the planet's year, attempting to go straight to the planet will have you hitting the stellar gravity well far from your destination. Since most star systems on a jump route have at least TWO connections, Now you need that to be true in all linked directions.

 

[Nelphine]

I specifically do away with that particular problem. Its not specified in the rules as written that you have to avoid large chunks of any given solar system when jumping in - or out, depending on your destination. Indeed, that would make many adventures not function properly, and completely destroy most trade rules as written.

I assume that you can in fact jump to a destination system, as long as your destination is not within 100d of any object, and if that means the jump has to do circles around local gravity wells to do so, that is what it does - conveniently for me, this gives a very nice explanation for the varied time it takes to arrive - you have to navigate around all gravity wells, which are constantly moving.

But it means, imtu, and arguably in the otu, if the station i describe exists, you can always go there, at any time, from any system.

 

[Nelphine]

Imtu, i then take this a step further. The rest of the reason that the time varies, is because throughout the jump, rogue gravity wells are encountered. Small objects, like comets or rogue moons, that are simply impossible to account for in the original jump plan. This is why there has to be an astrogator on duty at all times during a jump, to plot micro changes in the jump as these are encountered.
Its.. far fetched, but i like what it does in terms of mechanics for routine during a jump.

These micro changes need no roll, but they need a sentient brain to decide on. Sonething something, computers cant properly interpret the jump shadows.