What use is Culture (Own) skill? Where did the Peasant go?

[vivsavage]

I love RQII to bits, but have two small issues thus far...

I'm not sure I really "get" the purpose of the Culture (Own) skill. When would you use it? Isn't it reasonable to assume everyone knows their own cultural traditions to the extent that you wouldn't have to roll against that skill? Even the description of the skill in the game seems more to do with Culture (Specific Culture) than anything else.

One other minor thing... there really doesn't seem to be any peasant background anymore. I realize you're supposed to use the Civilized background for that, but IMO it doesn't fit. No peasant is going to have Courtesy as an automatic skill, and I'm not really convinced about receiving Evaluate and Influence either. These seem more like 'upper class' skills. One thing I feel RQ I got right were the backgrounds. I wished these had stayed the same. Is there any harm in using the RQ I backgrounds instead?

 

[Loz]

I'm not sure I really "get" the purpose of the Culture (Own) skill. When would you use it? Isn't it reasonable to assume everyone knows their own cultural traditions to the extent that you wouldn't have to roll against that skill? Even the description of the skill in the game seems more to do with Culture (Specific Culture) than anything else.

Okay... look at it this way. You come from a certain country, state/province/county, city, borough and neightbourhood. You know your local culture. But you belong to a wider culture that, whilst not foreign, will do some things in different ways at different times and for different reasons even though you're still part of the same tribe. Your ability to establish those customs, differences and nuances are what the Culture (own) skill is for.

One other minor thing... there really doesn't seem to be any peasant background anymore. I realize you're supposed to use the Civilized background for that, but IMO it doesn't fit. No peasant is going to have Courtesy as an automatic skill, and I'm not really convinced about receiving Evaluate and Influence either. These seem more like 'upper class' skills. One thing I feel RQ I got right were the backgrounds. I wished these had stayed the same. Is there any harm in using the RQ I backgrounds instead?

I would argue with this considerably... peasants are often the most courteous of people whilst the 'higher' classes are, despite their veneer, not. I think you're confusing class and culture. They're different. You can be civilised and poor, barbarian and rich. If you think Courtesy, Evaluate, and Influence are really 'upper class' skills, you should consider the fact that people both operate within their own social boundaries and have just as much use for these skills as higher classes or castes, but also that those who have less material wealth quite often have a higher notion of value (social and material) and how to get the best from people, than those who believe their station in life provides certain rights.

One thing I feel RQ I got right were the backgrounds. I wished these had stayed the same. Is there any harm in using the RQ I backgrounds instead?

By all means! Its your game.

 

[Jarec]

I had my party rolling it when they first visited the tribal chief. Coming from a small hearth in the mountains the first adventure had them visiting the tribal chief for aid and they had to roll to make sure they did things right.

 

[kintire]

One other minor thing... there really doesn't seem to be any peasant background anymore. I realize you're supposed to use the Civilized background for that, but IMO it doesn't fit. No peasant is going to have Courtesy as an automatic skill

In a society where you can get killed on the spot for being rude to a social superior, EVERY peasant will have it. Even in less draconian cultures, being polite, especially to your social superiors is an important skill regardless where you sit on the social spectrum. Peasants are often the most polite members of society, because they can't get away with being rude!

and I'm not really convinced about receiving Evaluate and Influence either. These seem more like 'upper class' skills

In most cultures, the upper class will rarely have evaluate. They may haave knowledge of specific things like weapons, armour, horses or artworks, but the praactice of commerce is lower class.

 

[Mongoose Pete]

In most cultures, the upper class will rarely have evaluate. They may haave knowledge of specific things like weapons, armour, horses or artworks, but the praactice of commerce is lower class.

Everyone has evaluate. Its just that you'll more likely know the prices of items or services valid to your class. Commoners may know the fair price for a turnip, but haven't the foggiest idea how much a piece of artwork or a night with a courtesan costs. Whereas it would be reversed for high class members of society.

Evaluate is an inherent part of living in a society where people barter or use money. We all have a general idea of how much air fairs, pints of beer, or a paperback book should cost, but some are better at finding bargains, or realising when a seller or contractor is cheating them.

 

[vivsavage]

I would argue with this considerably... peasants are often the most courteous of people whilst the 'higher' classes are, despite their veneer, not. I think you're confusing class and culture. They're different. You can be civilised and poor, barbarian and rich. If you think Courtesy, Evaluate, and Influence are really 'upper class' skills, you should consider the fact that people both operate within their own social boundaries and have just as much use for these skills as higher classes or castes, but also that those who have less material wealth quite often have a higher notion of value (social and material) and how to get the best from people, than those who believe their station in life provides certain rights.

I see what you mean, but the way the Courtesy skill is written up in the rules, it sounds very much like an upper class skill. I wish I had the book in front of me to quote it

My overall problem is this: there is no differentiation between class background in RQII. A peasant and a noble start with the same amount of money, have the same basic skills, et. Now, I see what you mean by class vs culture, but it just doesn't work for me. It isn't a big deal, but I simply prefer the dichotomy that was present in RQ I's backgrounds.

 

[vivsavage]

In most cultures, the upper class will rarely have evaluate. They may haave knowledge of specific things like weapons, armour, horses or artworks, but the praactice of commerce is lower class.

Then, again, if that is the case then why are peasants and nobles on "equal footing" with the civilized background? Shouldn't there be a difference? The Civilized background assumes everyone, regardless of class, has these skills.

 

[kintire]

Everyone has evaluate. Its just that you'll more likely know the prices of items or services valid to your class.

Not everyone. In many cultures, the upper class will derive all their needs from their estates, and for the occasions where they need to get anything else a steward or a valet will get it for them.

 

[HalfOrc HalfBiscuit]

One other minor thing... there really doesn't seem to be any peasant background anymore. I realize you're supposed to use the Civilized background for that, but IMO it doesn't fit. No peasant is going to have Courtesy as an automatic skill

In a society where you can get killed on the spot for being rude to a social superior, EVERY peasant will have it. Even in less draconian cultures, being polite, especially to your social superiors is an important skill regardless where you sit on the social spectrum. Peasants are often the most polite members of society, because they can't get away with being rude!

Have to say I have some sympathy with vivsavage on this one. The description of the Courtesy skill says:

A noble court, from that of a minor lord to the grand palace of an emperor, usually conducts its business or communicates in ways that would seem utterly alien to a commoner. With this skill the Adventurer knows how to navigate the murky waters of life amongst the nobility. He understands the subtleties and extravagances of courtly behaviour and can use them to his own advantage.

This seems to imply that the skill is focused the politics of on life at court.

Being polite a noble in the street would seem to me to be more a matter for the relevant Culture skill.

That said, if one favours that interpretation, it seems a trivial matter to create a civilised peasant by dropping Courtesy and taking four of the other advanced skill options rather than three.

 

[Mikko Leho]

A peasant and a noble start with the same amount of money, have the same basic skills, et.

Nobles do get something extra per page 27.