What is your approach to languages?

[Anstett]

I have broken them up into separate languages and then dialects. For Traveller I go with the idea that the communicator can give you 25%-90% comprehension of a language which helps with related ones.

I based it on this baseline from my D&D game.

Dragonslayers Society | Main / Languages

 

[FreeTrav]

English in one form or another is pretty much a lingua franca (which, oddly enough, means "french language") in probably most of the world - but that doesn't mean that you can understand someone else speaking it, or be sure that they understand you speaking it. Loren Wiseman once posted a story about taking a tour in Sweden; English was the common language. There was a Norwegian and a Finn in the tour group, and the Norwegian couldn't understand the Finn's English or vice-versa - but Loren could understand both, and both could understand his American. So, he ended up translating between English and English.

On the flip side, English can be butchered pretty badly and still be understandable. I even wrote an article about doing that, specifically to address in a game-useful way the idea of different languages without going all the way to forcing the players to get involved in translating. See "Speaking in Tongues: Simulating Dialects in Your Game", Freelance Traveller, July/August 2017.

 

[Spirit of 1977]

English in one form or another is pretty much a lingua franca (which, oddly enough, means "french language") in probably most of the world - but that doesn't mean that you can understand someone else speaking it, or be sure that they understand you speaking it. Loren Wiseman once posted a story about taking a tour in Sweden; English was the common language. There was a Norwegian and a Finn in the tour group, and the Norwegian couldn't understand the Finn's English or vice-versa - but Loren could understand both, and both could understand his American. So, he ended up translating between English and English.

On the flip side, English can be butchered pretty badly and still be understandable. I even wrote an article about doing that, specifically to address in a game-useful way the idea of different languages without going all the way to forcing the players to get involved in translating. See "Speaking in Tongues: Simulating Dialects in Your Game", Freelance Traveller, July/August 2017.

I totally love this. No formalized rules, just situational tasks for game purposes. Perfect.

 

[Jame Rowe]

I figure that, for the OTU and MTU, every Imperial character gets Galanglic at 2 and Vilani at 0. Though most non human characters get their native language at 2 and Galanglic at 0, except for Bwaps who get it at 1.

For 2300AD, I follow the rules as written except that everyone gets either French or English at 0 if they don't get either during character creation.

 

[MonsterX]

The skill mechanics don't do a great job of representing actual language skill. I've been making language skill 0 mean A2 in a specific language (since the "smattering" rule makes no sense whatsoever). Skill 1 is B1, Skill 2 is B2, Skill 3, C1, Skill 4 is C2. EDU or INT mods apply, in practical situations, possibly SOC in the right context, but if you add a mod, it means you are putting in an effort and being creative about getting your message across.

So with a 0, you can't hold a conversation, but you might manage to understand and be understood, especially if you have a stat bonuses. With a 1 you can kind of hold an awkward conversation, but 2 is needed to get to a real conversation, which won't always be without effort and misunderstandings. Skill 3 means you can interact like a native, but will have an accent and limited vocabulary.

 

[WHULorigan]

This is a response to a post on Languages I once made over on the COTI Board.
(RQ uses Percentile ranges of course, but it resolves into 5 Tier-ranges in the rules).

These are some rules examples from 3rd Edition Runequest (Avalon Hill), which used a 5-tier scale for language skill (you may want to consider this skill 0 thru 4 for MgT):

• Tier-1: Basic words and phrases - "I want food."
• Tier-2: Sufficient to get by in a culture - "How many monies for leg of lamb?"
• Tier-3: Average native-speaker proficiency - " But that leg of lamb was only three coppers yesterday."
• Tier-4: Language of poets and professional speakers - "That lamb was rotten when it was butchered, and isn't worth the spit it took to hit the tax-collector's eye last month!"
• Tier-5: Language of diplomats and elites - "Surely the assessment for this specimen of decomposing provender could be reevaluated in consideration of its advanced state of putrefaction."

 

[MonsterX]

This is a response to a post on Languages I once made over on the COTI Board.
(RQ uses Percentile ranges of course, but it resolves into 5 Tier-ranges in the rules).

'Bout the same as what I came up with.

What do you get on Tier 5 with a 2 SOC, I wonder? Probably entertaining, but neither diplomatic, nor elite.

 

[WHULorigan]

'Bout the same as what I came up with.

What do you get on Tier 5 with a 2 SOC, I wonder? Probably entertaining, but neither diplomatic, nor elite.

It probably means you get someone who was well trained in how to speak a particular way (via that particular training, however it was acquired) that was entirely different than his upbringing, and who can pull the proverbial wool over other people's eyes if you dress him up right. And he still doesn't necessarily choose to speak that way normally, necessarily, but he can do so if he wants to. Great skill for an infiltrator or agent.

 

[G'Naakbusters]

It probably means you get someone who was well trained in how to speak a particular way (via that particular training, however it was acquired) that was entirely different than his upbringing, and who can pull the proverbial wool over other people's eyes if you dress him up right. And he still doesn't necessarily choose to speak that way normally, necessarily, but he can do so if he wants to. Great skill for an infiltrator or agent.

Perhaps there can also be potential negative consequences, as in a character comes across as a fool using overly elaborate language because they learned it by watching footage of archaic court discussions or films of an old genre?

A situation where a character is saying something equivalent to, "my dearest sir, I beseech you forgive my impertinence and rude countenance; your worship has my most sincere apologies" and is being completely earnest but comes across as mocking, making the situation worse. Could be just as bad as using language too "basic" or uncouth when addressing the higher-ups in a status-conscious, stratified society...

 

[MonsterX]

Perhaps there can also be potential negative consequences, as in a character comes across as a fool using overly elaborate language

I was thinking more along the lines of the Gunnery Sergeant from Full Metal Jacket, for example:
"Are you quitting on me? Well, are you? Then quit, you slimy f-cking walrus-looking piece of sh-t! Get the f-ck off of my obstacle! Get the f--k down off of my obstacle! NOW! MOVE IT! Or I'm going to rip your balls off, so you cannot contaminate the rest of the world! I will motivate you, Pvt. Pyle, EVEN IF IT SHORT-D-CKS EVERY CANNIBAL ON THE CONGO!"

Brilliant use of language but would not pass muster with the Ladies' Church Auxiliary.

 

[Condottiere]

Language subspecialization.

How to convey doctrine and influence Privates.

 

[Seffix]

Pygmalion, perhaps?

 

[Geir]

Brilliant use of language

Was it though? As I recall the result, the eventual result was suboptimal for both parties.

Language skill - especially of a native language is not handled all that well with regards to the specialties rules. Language 0 by itself is really kind of pointless, unless it is really Science (linguistics) 1 - Science itself being another one of those 'broad but sort of related' ones that is dealt with a bit better in the Companion, though Science 0 should at least be enough to understand the scientific method.

Skill above full fluency (probably skill level 2) as in the fancy or clever speech examples above might better be considered Art (Performer) - although an 'Oratory' skill is perhaps completely different than an 'Actor' skill or not. Or use Persuade/Diplomat/Carouse/Deception/Streetwise as the other skill in a task chain* to achieve the desired effect - add SOC if it helps.

*Point being to make that sort of instantaneous. Pick one skill as the first 'task', use it to modify the the results of a check using the other skill, and there's your result without thinking too hard about creating a special skill for superfluency.

 

[Condottiere]

1. Being hip to modern youth culture and communication.

2. Pygmalion was ahead of his time.

 

[MonsterX]

Was it though? As I recall the result, the eventual result was suboptimal for both parties.

He did get Pvt. Pile off the obstacle, which is what he said he wanted.

 

[Seffix]

Rather than starting a new thread, I'm adding this here.
Over the course of 3 slow episodes in my current campaign, we have built up a veritable lexicon of 'things that are in common use on Emerald (Spinward Marches), but probably not important in anyone else' campaign. I will bypass those and offer what slang and such have been used.

Boff — (n.) Self important prick
Buldge — (i.) Damn.
Cousin from Kearb — (Trope) A non-existent character from an old vid series. Over the course of the series every single character pretended to be the ‘cousin from Kearb’ without realizing that the cousin had been made up the entire time.
Crat — (n.) Technocrat. Bureaucrat. Autocrat.
Dandinlan — (n. vl. possibly derived from Galanglic) Proud person
Dort — (n.) idiot
Drellop — (n.) Anything that is always in season on Emerald, but might be subject to a seasonal variation on a planet with seasonal variation
Drink a drulch — (v.) Fuck up
Drulch — (n.) chemical waste, something foul
Duffy — (n.) term of endearment
Emeralda gestures:
Emeralda sign-off wave: a gesture that tells Emerald comms to terminate a call after 1 second.
Three finger wave: Indicates you need to visit the amenities
Flakker — (n.) Bastard or Vilani
Gaagapgush — (n. vl.) Idiot
Gagiim. Lushzapdu ir birkhanga mumakgar. — (toast. vl.) Cheers. May you prosper harmoniously.
Gagiim. Kilamishu kugi kirgidni. — (toast reply. vl.) Cheers. May tradition favor you.
Ghe — (i. gv.) Hey or excuse me.
Ghaoudz — (i. vl.) Crud
Gnangkaeak — (a. vl.) Fur-soft. An undesirable quality in meat
Ikash — (n. vl.) A bitch
Jo-hog — (n.) Horny dort
Khuip — (n. vl. (Tauri (Core))) A bitch
Krad — (i.) Crud
Magii-magii — (n. vl.) Hijinks
Meat, the — (a.) Great
Partner Piece, a — (n.) domestic dispute
Pij — (n.) Cute girl
Play Donuts — (v.) Make out
Sayings:
A good pedestrian is a fast pedestrian.
Make a deal with a Hiver
Shlag — (n.) Vulgar term for a prostitute who is not worth Cr1
Shusi — (a. vl.) Comfy and old fashioned
Thugrunner — Street thief who grabs something and runs
Tranna — (n.) Something that looks bad
Umgi — (a. vl.) Folksy and old fashioned
Varm — (n.) Small, annoying animal / pet

 

[paltrysum]

I can’t remember if I already said something about this in a previous post, so bear with me if I did. It has come up before, but speaking alien languages has another factor that we have to consider. One species does not have the physiology to speak the language of another.

There probably exists a median language between various species. Humans speaking Trokh, Vargr speaking Ithklur, K’kree speaking Galanglic. I would imagine that members of each species who are more cosmopolitan, who spend time among other species, learn to understand that median language that exists between the two alien languages. Only by using technology, some sort of translation device, can they truly hear their native tongue spoken by an alien.

 

[NOLATrav]

I'll throw one in from MTU:

Spats - (n.) Derived from System Patrol (frequently referred to as SysPat, thus "spats"), a derogatory term for the local system's law enforcement department (similar to the pigs or les flics, for example: "the frakkin' spats!" or "the gorram spats!")

 

[ottarrus]

As I commented earlier, IMTU languages are really important. While translation systems and software exists, they are still automated. Much of human communication is situational... inflection, inference, tone, etc. While TL 15 expert systems do a great job for most applications, it does not match actual learning of the language for things like negotiations, localisms, etc. By way of example, ask anyone who is a fluent non-native speaker of second language and most will tell you the hardest thing to master is humor. There's a lot of cultural information needed to make a joke funny and if you're not fully informed, a joke will end up flat.
So the way I do things at the table is a bit LBB old school... Mastery of a language takes a grand total of 5 skill ranks, including Lang 0.
- At Language 0 you know many of the by-rote traveler phrases in the main languages of Charted Space... 'Where is the bathroom?', 'How much does this cost?', 'What time is it?' etc.
- At Language 1 you have specify which language you know ['Language [Gvegh] 1'] and you have enough knowledge to have a simple conversation.
- At Language [x] 2, you've improved on your language skills. You can think of the right word easily in most situations and have begun the process of thinking in the second language.
- At Language [x] 3, you've fully mastered the vocabulary and idiom. You're fully conversant in technical and professional language [based on those skill levels you possess]. You can read and understand the cultural references in the classic literature of the language but when speaking you have an accent that still marks you as a foreigner.
- At Language [x] 4, you have absolute fluency. You're fully aware of idiom, technical, and cultural references and someone who doesn't know better would think you a native.
Now, yes, it's true that that is a lot skill levels, but I solve this in game by ruling that only the first level counts against your Skill level limit of INT + EDU.

EDIT:
And JoT levels don't help you with languages.... Trust me on that one. I offended the Hell out of a Norwegian woman one time with my Straßedeutsch back in the day. And your Tex-Mex won't get you much farther with an Argentinian or Castillian Spanish speaker.

 

[Saladman]

What is your approach to languages?

Every full rank of Language is fluency in a separate language. The skill is only rolled for a language you don't know, either to get across a few very common words without a reference, or translating with a reference work.

So with a 0, you can't hold a conversation, but you might manage to understand and be understood, especially if you have a stat bonuses. With a 1 you can kind of hold an awkward conversation, but 2 is needed to get to a real conversation, which won't always be without effort and misunderstandings. Skill 3 means you can interact like a native, but will have an accent and limited vocabulary.

• Tier-1: Basic words and phrases - "I want food."
• Tier-2: Sufficient to get by in a culture - "How many monies for leg of lamb?"
• Tier-3: Average native-speaker proficiency - " But that leg of lamb was only three coppers yesterday."
• Tier-4: Language of poets and professional speakers - "That lamb was rotten when it was butchered, and isn't worth the spit it took to hit the tax-collector's eye last month!"
• Tier-5: Language of diplomats and elites - "Surely the assessment for this specimen of decomposing provender could be reevaluated in consideration of its advanced state of putrefaction."

Perhaps there can also be potential negative consequences, as in a character comes across as a fool using overly elaborate language because they learned it by watching footage of archaic court discussions or films of an old genre?

A situation where a character is saying something equivalent to, "my dearest sir, I beseech you forgive my impertinence and rude countenance; your worship has my most sincere apologies" and is being completely earnest but comes across as mocking, making the situation worse. Could be just as bad as using language too "basic" or uncouth when addressing the higher-ups in a status-conscious, stratified society...

So the way I do things at the table is a bit LBB old school... Mastery of a language takes a grand total of 5 skill ranks, including Lang 0.
- At Language 0 you know many of the by-rote traveler phrases in the main languages of Charted Space... 'Where is the bathroom?', 'How much does this cost?', 'What time is it?' etc.
- At Language 1 you have specify which language you know ['Language [Gvegh] 1'] and you have enough knowledge to have a simple conversation.
- At Language [x] 2, you've improved on your language skills. You can think of the right word easily in most situations and have begun the process of thinking in the second language.
- At Language [x] 3, you've fully mastered the vocabulary and idiom. You're fully conversant in technical and professional language [based on those skill levels you possess]. You can read and understand the cultural references in the classic literature of the language but when speaking you have an accent that still marks you as a foreigner.
- At Language [x] 4, you have absolute fluency. You're fully aware of idiom, technical, and cultural references and someone who doesn't know better would think you a native.

None of these scale well against character creation. If rolling randomly you may exit char-gen with Language 1 but not often higher. And I think, as with other skills, start by assuming competence.

In fairness these are all closer to the book than my own house rule. So I see how you get there. But the book, I think, is misguided in this case.