Vorlons cant jump point bomb in 2nd Ed? Scout needed?

[tneva82]

But it was the Minbari who chose the asteroid field as the ideal (only?) place to use the jump point bomb.

Why would they deliberatly choose non-ideal position? If there's handy asteroid field to use to your advantage why not use it...

No reason to do job sloppily just for sake of doing it sloppily...Might just as well do it properly utilising every advantage you can.

 

[Sulfurdown]

In the evaluation of the JPB using the six B/S -

If a JPB requires a Scout to perform a CQ9/10 to target a location, doesn't it make sense that it's the location pinpointed by the Scout? Meaning that if you want to perform more than one JPB, you need a scout for each J/P? Ergo if you want the six JPB, you need six Scouts on the table to perform the targeting (tying up two ships per J/P)?

In the case of using one Scout to target one location and opening six jump points there, isn't that the same as the 'Bonehead' maneuver multiplied by five? Which I would say would potentially destroy all of the ships generating, or deploying through, the jump points like a Shadow Jump Point Disruptor hit them. In addition to local realspace targets being damaged.

EDIT: Possibly open one jump point and when the second is opened, treat the first point as if it was a ship in the area to determine if the 'Bonehead Maneuver' was executed? So even opening them too close could prove dangerous.

 

[Jal]

the Black Star effectively lured a group of EA ships into a natural choke point, jumped right into the middle of them and ripped the formation apart from the inside out.

they did as much damage if not more with their ordinary weaponary than with the actual jp, which was a great way to disrupt and stun the enemy.

as a opportunity tactic it`s a good one... but one that that could be easily avoided once known... would be nice if the rules could reflect that.

 

[Da Boss]

Volrons still need a Scout though - even if JPB goes ?

 

[katadder]

In the evaluation of the JPB using the six B/S -

If a JPB requires a Scout to perform a CQ9/10 to target a location, doesn't it make sense that it's the location pinpointed by the Scout? Meaning that if you want to perform more than one JPB, you need a scout for each J/P? Ergo if you want the six JPB, you need six Scouts on the table to perform the targeting (tying up two ships per J/P)?

In the case of using one Scout to target one location and opening six jump points there, isn't that the same as the 'Bonehead' maneuver multiplied by five? Which I would say would potentially destroy all of the ships generating, or deploying through, the jump points like a Shadow Jump Point Disruptor hit them. In addition to local realspace targets being damaged.

EDIT: Possibly open one jump point and when the second is opened, treat the first point as if it was a ship in the area to determine if the 'Bonehead Maneuver' was executed? So even opening them too close could prove dangerous.

its not the scout that needs to pass the CQ check its the ship attempting the JPB so each individual ship needs to pass the check. the scout passes on the information, its down to the ships to try and pull off the hit with that information by passing a CQ check.

 

[Sulfurdown]

Ah, my misunderstanding.

Even so, the idea of opening that many jump points on top of each other was clearly a risk since it's commented on and later shown that the Whitestar was about the only ship that could out run the energy explosion from layered vortices. That was since it already had a head start in realspace. It was enough to destroy a Shadow ship outright. Since the Bonehead Maneuver has as much (if not more) right to cannon and would be a balancing factor against abuse of Jump Point shock wave. I'd like to see ideas for it and possibly instituted for 2nd Ed.

 

[thePirv]

One more thing...

Since the JPB is being kept in the game since it was "In the show", but the new rules require a scout to be on the table to direct the JPB, does that mean the Minbari Flyers are now going to come with the scout trait since unless I'm very much mistaken, it was a Minbari Flyer that led the EA fleet into position for the JPB in the first place.

Or again is this just going to be a case of including one thing because it was in the show (i.e. JPB and Omegas with minibeams) while totally ignoring other things from the show (bonehead, non-boresight G'Quan)?

 

[Burger]

I think one of the asteroids, may have been a Leshath with a Changeling Net on it?

 

[katadder]

perhaps they didnt have a scuot available, and that was a set up ambush anyway. as soon as the flier got to a certain point they would do it. whereas most JP bombs are not set up ambushes, hence the need for a scout to tell you where all the enemy ships are.

 

[Jal]

I think one of the asteroids, may have been a Leshath with a Changeling Net on it?

err.... Changeling Nets alter a persons features.... where did you get the idea ships used them?

 

[Da Boss]

whereas most JP bombs are not set up ambushes, hence the need for a scout to tell you where all the enemy ships are.

Isn't there just the one?

 

[thePirv]

perhaps they didnt have a scuot available, and that was a set up ambush anyway. as soon as the flier got to a certain point they would do it. whereas most JP bombs are not set up ambushes, hence the need for a scout to tell you where all the enemy ships are.

Then surely I can argue in a regular game that I've led my enemy into the exact position required to JPB and therefore don't require a scout to perform this action.

I think one of the asteroids, may have been a Leshath with a Changeling Net on it?

err.... Changeling Nets alter a persons features.... where did you get the idea ships used them?

Methinks Burgers answer may have been a litle tongue in cheek in an attempt to highlight the fact that "It was in the show..." isn't really a good argument at all, but has been used so many times recently to justify some aspects being included in the game.

 

[katadder]

if you argue that you have the ambush set up then sure maybe you could argue for this inclusion in the ambush scenario to make that one even worse for the defender.

 

[thePirv]

if you argue that you have the ambush set up then sure maybe you could argue for this inclusion in the ambush scenario to make that one even worse for the defender.

Hell, why not? After all, it appears to be a viable ambush tactic as seen "in the show"

 

[Jal]

perhaps they didnt have a scuot available, and that was a set up ambush anyway. as soon as the flier got to a certain point they would do it. whereas most JP bombs are not set up ambushes, hence the need for a scout to tell you where all the enemy ships are.

Then surely I can argue in a regular game that I've led my enemy into the

exact position required to JPB and therefore don't require a scout to perform this action.

make the jump in point a written order that must be set to specific cordinates before the game begins, the jpb to be activated once the enemy are in the trap.

or is that too difficult for the game?

I think one of the asteroids, may have been a Leshath with a Changeling Net on it?

err.... Changeling Nets alter a persons features.... where did you get the idea ships used them?

Methinks Burgers answer may have been a litle tongue in cheek in an attempt to highlight the fact that "It was in the show..." isn't really a good argument at all, but has been used so many times recently to justify some aspects being included in the game.

ahh... irony.

 

[emperorpenguin]

Or again is this just going to be a case of including one thing because it was in the show (i.e. JPB and Omegas with minibeams) while totally ignoring other things from the show (bonehead, non-boresight G'Quan)?

and again I say Mongoose don't take or implement all our suggestions

 

[Burger]

Yeah, I was trying to find some canonical justification for requiring a scout on the table. Since there is none, I thought maybe the scout had adapted a changeling net to cover an entire ship! Or isn't there a ship in B5W that can do that, Dargan I believe?

Don't get me wrong, I think having to have a scout on the table is a good idea, it makes sense. But there is absolutely zip from the show to back it up.

 

[Jal]

Yeah, I was trying to find some canonical justification for requiring a scout on the table. Since there is none, I thought maybe the scout had adapted a changeling net to cover an entire ship! Or isn't there a ship in B5W that can do that, Dargan I believe?

Don't get me wrong, I think having to have a scout on the table is a good idea, it makes sense. But there is absolutely zip from the show to back it up.

purely from the movie point of view i think the Black Star scouted out the asteroids itself some time previously and the Flyer was only used as the lure, but that might not work well game wise.

 

[thePirv]

Or again is this just going to be a case of including one thing because it was in the show (i.e. JPB and Omegas with minibeams) while totally ignoring other things from the show (bonehead, non-boresight G'Quan)?

and again I say Mongoose don't take or implement all our suggestions

Yeah, I know, and this isn't intended as a go at anybody in particular, I just find it ridiculous that so much "one shot" stuff from the show is being included while so much other stuff is being ignored or put down to CGI error and the like.

 

[emperorpenguin]

purely from the movie point of view i think the Black Star scouted out the asteroids itself some time previously and the Flyer was only used as the lure, but that might not work well game wise.

IMHO it should require a precise point to get it accurate otherwise you take your chances with scatter