MustEatBrains
Mongoose
lastbesthope said:
"Precise" in perfection
Vorlons cant jump point bomb in 2nd Ed? Scout needed?
- Thread starter Da Boss
- Start date
"Precise" in perfection
emperorpenguin
Mongoose
thePirv said:
and the Omega mini-beams are silly why? :?
Commador Q
Mongoose
my thoughts on some of these issues:
1: JP bombs, i think they should be included as a possible tactic, and i think the perposed second eddition rule does a good jobe of making it hard to actuall pull off. First of all it's no longer a sure thing, you need a CQ check, a scout on the table, and a AJP ship that hasn't used it's jump engins yet in hyperspace (remember jump engins only work once per scenario now). If you want to JP bomb you're going to have to have planed to do it from the beginning (during set up if not fleet selection), and even then only the more adavanced races can attempt it.
2: the ISA using JP bombs, as the most advanced fleet belonging to the younger races, and being largely minbari (the only race to use JP bombs in the series) they are naturally the most likely to use JP bombs. Of coarse there should be steps taken to ensure the tactic isn't over used. Personally i'd say that droping the AJP trait from WS fighters and the Bluestar and repacing it with just JP) would be a start. the argument for this could be that those ships are so small that even the ISA can only get basic jump engine perfomance out of them. remember the white stars were smaller than most jump capable ships, in the series.
3: boresioghted WS, are something i'd support, as long as they got something in return (say their 3+ dodge back, a higher crew score, or maybe a second AD for the beam). it's possible that the 4+ rerolewill compensate for the boresight in it's own right, i haven't tried it yet myself.
I suppot the boresighted WS weapon because it really is that way in the show, and we also see WS not using their neutron lasers very often. Besides with manuverability like the WS have you can always boresight something if you want to (they can come about 180 degrees in one move) this might make WS commanders choose between lining up a beam shot or staying in the enemy's blind spot.
1: JP bombs, i think they should be included as a possible tactic, and i think the perposed second eddition rule does a good jobe of making it hard to actuall pull off. First of all it's no longer a sure thing, you need a CQ check, a scout on the table, and a AJP ship that hasn't used it's jump engins yet in hyperspace (remember jump engins only work once per scenario now). If you want to JP bomb you're going to have to have planed to do it from the beginning (during set up if not fleet selection), and even then only the more adavanced races can attempt it.
2: the ISA using JP bombs, as the most advanced fleet belonging to the younger races, and being largely minbari (the only race to use JP bombs in the series) they are naturally the most likely to use JP bombs. Of coarse there should be steps taken to ensure the tactic isn't over used. Personally i'd say that droping the AJP trait from WS fighters and the Bluestar and repacing it with just JP) would be a start. the argument for this could be that those ships are so small that even the ISA can only get basic jump engine perfomance out of them. remember the white stars were smaller than most jump capable ships, in the series.
3: boresioghted WS, are something i'd support, as long as they got something in return (say their 3+ dodge back, a higher crew score, or maybe a second AD for the beam). it's possible that the 4+ rerolewill compensate for the boresight in it's own right, i haven't tried it yet myself.
I suppot the boresighted WS weapon because it really is that way in the show, and we also see WS not using their neutron lasers very often. Besides with manuverability like the WS have you can always boresight something if you want to (they can come about 180 degrees in one move) this might make WS commanders choose between lining up a beam shot or staying in the enemy's blind spot.
So Vorlons, - can they do the same thing that less advanced races can do? Maybe not as well as ISA :roll: but they can attempt the to use the tactic if they wish.
Again I am talking about it game...............still waiting for a good reason not to give Vorlons a Scout...................
Reasons for:
They have not got one
They can use it for:
Stealth reduction (you can always roll a one or two)
re-rolls on Initiative and Set up
be a actual use for one of the two Vorlon transport models!
they can JPB (if it is in the game ) and apparently according to the forum -it will be.
Give them an additional choice full stop.
Give them an additional choice at lower power levels..................
Again I am talking about it game...............still waiting for a good reason not to give Vorlons a Scout...................
Reasons for:
They have not got one
They can use it for:
Stealth reduction (you can always roll a one or two)
re-rolls on Initiative and Set up
be a actual use for one of the two Vorlon transport models!
they can JPB (if it is in the game ) and apparently according to the forum -it will be.
Give them an additional choice full stop.
Give them an additional choice at lower power levels..................
emperorpenguin
Mongoose
thePirv said:
these are clearly NOT the same shots being used again!
Messages from Earth
Point of No Return
I consider the Hyperion having lasers (which happens once to the three Omega side beam instances) to be a CGI cock up so if you agree to scrap that I'll agree with you :wink:
On the Omega thing...
What ever the weapon looks like do we want it to have all the traits of a beam under the 2ed rules. IE do we want the Omega to be one of the few ships with non-intereptable secondary weapons, do we want it to in effect be SAP, do we want it to have even greater fighter defense. A good argument could be made that just because it uses a flash of light as its weapon does not mean it deserves the 'beam' trait. We've already made the argument the other way for the mag gun, and oddly have largely ignored the shadow beam vs vorlon energy vortex interaction which looked very intercepted to me.
Jump point thing - if this is considered a weapon and part of the load out of the ship likely to be used in at least one scenario in three, sure...if it treated the way it is now as just a free benefit of being AJP, no. No matter how infrequent you think it is, other folks will find a way to max the trait out. Go back to the old Sag debates and read the part about how advantages, no matter how small, stack. If a ship gets to be better than its opponent without paying the price you are chucking balance out the window before you even get started.
Vorlons - a good summation just above of the reasons Vorlons should get scouts, and frankly the other major mission profiles. Carrier (Fleet or otherwise) Bombardment (maybe this is covered) Troop Ship (might be a minion race...but give them the option), basically a ship for every major scenario function. The show might not have shown us what full fledged war between the races would have looked like in the previous shadow war (or any war before the planet destroyers become the answer), but maybe we would want to play that out sometime.
Ripple
What ever the weapon looks like do we want it to have all the traits of a beam under the 2ed rules. IE do we want the Omega to be one of the few ships with non-intereptable secondary weapons, do we want it to in effect be SAP, do we want it to have even greater fighter defense. A good argument could be made that just because it uses a flash of light as its weapon does not mean it deserves the 'beam' trait. We've already made the argument the other way for the mag gun, and oddly have largely ignored the shadow beam vs vorlon energy vortex interaction which looked very intercepted to me.
Jump point thing - if this is considered a weapon and part of the load out of the ship likely to be used in at least one scenario in three, sure...if it treated the way it is now as just a free benefit of being AJP, no. No matter how infrequent you think it is, other folks will find a way to max the trait out. Go back to the old Sag debates and read the part about how advantages, no matter how small, stack. If a ship gets to be better than its opponent without paying the price you are chucking balance out the window before you even get started.
Vorlons - a good summation just above of the reasons Vorlons should get scouts, and frankly the other major mission profiles. Carrier (Fleet or otherwise) Bombardment (maybe this is covered) Troop Ship (might be a minion race...but give them the option), basically a ship for every major scenario function. The show might not have shown us what full fledged war between the races would have looked like in the previous shadow war (or any war before the planet destroyers become the answer), but maybe we would want to play that out sometime.
Ripple
emperorpenguin said:these are clearly NOT the same shots being used again!
Messages from Earth
OK my bad, I clearly missed that one. I jus saw the episodes the other shot was used in.
I'll shut up now
(Though I still think this is a cock up. Since when were Beam weapons fired from the radio aerial? :lol: )
That beam weapon isn't firing from the aerial. It's being fired from a turret off to the right. It passes by the end of the aerial, on its way down to Jupiter's atmosphere, where the White Star is lurking.
I saw Endgame last night, quite a few Omega's fire their forward beam at a non-boresight angle... to open another can of worms
I saw Endgame last night, quite a few Omega's fire their forward beam at a non-boresight angle... to open another can of worms
so then, we would definately be getting minibeams on the omega it seems. Another case of canon, ok, can we confirm that the centauri get NO beams. After all, it is clearly stated by Sheridan, G'Kar and Franklin that the Centauri do not use Beam weapons in a court of law.
However, I would be happy if the weapons that I suspect do have beam, get renamed, and are explained in a similar fashion to the mag gun
However, I would be happy if the weapons that I suspect do have beam, get renamed, and are explained in a similar fashion to the mag gun
Burger said:That beam weapon isn't firing from the aerial. It's being fired from a turret off to the right. It passes by the end of the aerial, on its way down to Jupiter's atmosphere, where the White Star is lurking.
I saw Endgame last night, quite a few Omega's fire their forward beam at a non-boresight angle... to open another can of worms
Suddenly that shot makes so much more sense.
OK, I'm in favour of Omega Mini-Beams.
(Who says arguing on these forums is pointless because people never change their mind? :lol: )
emperorpenguin
Mongoose
hiffano said:
they don't say they don't use beams
they say they use their energy weapons in an "exploding rather than cutting manner" :wink:
emperorpenguin
Mongoose
thePirv said:
the shots from "Point of No Return" are much clearer, you actually see where the shot comes from clearly
emperorpenguin
Mongoose
hiffano said:
I accepted the compromise for less powerful beams and ion cannons :wink:
