Traveller Fifth Edition

[ShawnDriscoll]

For $950, I'd expect to see CG models of nearly every Traveller ship and character figures in at least three different CG formats included on a CD. All fully textured with proper lens flares for the engines and muzzle flashes for weapons.

 

[lordmalachdrim]

I wonder how much the final book is going to cost? 60-70 dollars? It is a 600 page book after all...

Mark said the book would be available for purchase early 2013 and would retail for $75

 

[nats]

I wonder how much the final book is going to cost? 60-70 dollars? It is a 600 page book after all...

Mark said the book would be available for purchase early 2013 and would retail for $75

It would have to be flaming marvelous for me to consider maying that much for one book. I would consider paying £30-40 for a core rule book/set of core rules max. He is pricing himself out of the market at that price. And even if it was £35 I probably wouldn't buy a 600 page book anyway it would weigh a ton!

I think he's really lost the plot. All T5 needed was an updated CT deluxe box set to start it off. Or he should have followed Pathfinder's Beginners Box example and got new people into the game that way with some rules, adventures, tokens, maps, character sheets and dice. I would have bought that.

 

[lordmalachdrim]

Given he's past $180,000 mark I don't know if I'd say he was off the mark that much. Besides, Pathfinder's core book is nearly 600 pages for $50 and Fantasy Flight Games' Warhammer 40k cores are about 400 pages for $60. And in each case you are probably talking much larger print runs which mean significantly lower printing costs. And given that the publisher is getting maybe half the retail cost of the book when they go through a distributor (and the guys at kenzer have said they've had to give discounts of 60% for books in the past), I'm not sure if he would really have been able to go too much lower in price.

Heck even the Mongoose Traveller book is $40 and is under 200 pages.

 

[ShawnDriscoll]

I think Traveller 6 will be the supreme Marc Miller edition collector's ultimate gold game-of-the-year limited exclusive book rules to get, selling for $200 each (still with only the original 1980s pencil art and no color pictures for Traveller).

 

[AndrewW]

I think Traveller 6 will be the supreme Marc Miller edition collector's ultimate gold game-of-the-year limited exclusive book rules to get, selling for $200 each (still with only the original 1980s pencil art and no color pictures for Traveller).

And available in 1105.

 

[locarno24]

still with only the original 1980s pencil art and no color pictures for Traveller

If I'm honest, that's the main thing putting me off a bit.

One thing I like about the MgT core rulebook (and dislike about the CSC approach) is that I don't need a 'things-maker' that allows 1,435,246 types of revolver and semi-automatic - I'm quite happy with a reasonable rule for 'handgun' with two or three different pictures and leave it at that, and spend more time giving me maps, background and awesome colour vistas to help describe the worlds, ships and regions of space where the game is set.

 

[ShawnDriscoll]

still with only the original 1980s pencil art and no color pictures for Traveller

If I'm honest, that's the main thing putting me off a bit.

One thing I like about the MgT core rulebook (and dislike about the CSC approach) is that I don't need a 'things-maker' that allows 1,435,246 types of revolver and semi-automatic - I'm quite happy with a reasonable rule for 'handgun' with two or three different pictures and leave it at that, and spend more time giving me maps, background and awesome colour vistas to help describe the worlds, ships and regions of space where the game is set.

Do you remember the Deluxe Traveller book? It was a hardcover that combined Books 1 - 3. Now that was one fine book in its day. That's why the Mongoose Traveller Core Rulebook caught my eye in the bookstore, because it looked just like the Deluxe Traveller book. Only Mongoose had better defined rules (and some new art finally).

 

[Jame Rowe]

still with only the original 1980s pencil art and no color pictures for Traveller

If I'm honest, that's the main thing putting me off a bit.

One thing I like about the MgT core rulebook (and dislike about the CSC approach) is that I don't need a 'things-maker' that allows 1,435,246 types of revolver and semi-automatic - I'm quite happy with a reasonable rule for 'handgun' with two or three different pictures and leave it at that, and spend more time giving me maps, background and awesome colour vistas to help describe the worlds, ships and regions of space where the game is set.

Do you remember the Deluxe Traveller book? It was a hardcover that combined Books 1 - 3. Now that was one fine book in its day. That's why the Mongoose Traveller Core Rulebook caught my eye in the bookstore, because it looked just like the Deluxe Traveller book. Only Mongoose had better defined rules (and some new art finally).

And more stuff than "guns guns guns." Like commo gear and electronics.

 

[hdan]

Do you remember the Deluxe Traveller book? It was a hardcover that combined Books 1 - 3. Now that was one fine book in its day. That's why the Mongoose Traveller Core Rulebook caught my eye in the bookstore, because it looked just like the Deluxe Traveller book. Only Mongoose had better defined rules (and some new art finally).

Hey, I *like* the b&w art! Well ok, not all of it.

Of course I remember "The Traveller Book" - I still have mine, and though it's a bit beat up, it's still in usable shape. (Including my penciled in house rules and typo fixes!) The dust jacket is long gone though, presumably off to whatever gaming pocket universe also swallowed my LBB Book 2. (Luckily it didn't get my CT Book 5....)

Like you, Mongoose's book caught my eye because it seemed like (and is) an updated TTB. Though there are a few things that I don't think came together quite right, MgTRB is a worthy successor to the classic TTB.

Considering that TTB and MgT are really two interpretations of the same game, I do wonder how T5e is going to come out.

 

[ShawnDriscoll]

Considering that TTB and MgT are really two interpretations of the same game, I do wonder how T5e is going to come out.

Reading the T5 rules are kind of like reading an IBM PS/2 Model 80 manual for OS/2 Warp. I kept hoping to read fun parts of the game rules. If game rules are not interesting to me, I can't see a game being very interesting.

 

[Treebore]

The early T5 CD Rom had it being a continuation of T4, is that still true, or is it like Classic in the same manner Mongoose is?

 

[far-trader]

If game rules are not interesting to me, I can't see a game being very interesting.

I don't get that, but I guess we all have different criteria.

Most game rules I've read could be described as uninteresting, the interesting (fun) comes in actually playing the game. Or even playing with the game. The rules for stellar system generation are boring, actually sitting down and working up a living breathing stellar system is not only interesting but fun. The rules for building a starship are boring, using them to craft a starship though is fun. The rules for engaging in combat, personal or other, again boring, but playing a game with friends and running a gun battle or huge fleet action, great fun. And so on...

...I just don't get the need or desire for interesting reading rules.

I've read RPG rules that tried to be interesting that failed miserably. They came off as juvenile and "try hard" everytime they tried to punch up the interesting quotient with little witticisms and such. I think the time could have been better spent making sure the rules were actually usable and providing clear and complete examples of the application of the rules.

Now, RPG campaign background material, which might also cover examples of rule usage (essentially fiction) yes, that should be an interesting and inspiring read.

 

[ShawnDriscoll]

I'm not saying I need game rules to read like a Dummies book with cute puns or anything. I just don't want game rules that read like "A PC's endurance characteristic is used to assign a PC's endurance characteristic value.

Sure, I can gloss over some of the text. But if I find myself glossing over entire chapters that repeat things or have nothing to do with role-playing, I might as well just keep using the system I have already. SPI's Universe has a much more interesting/fun star system generator. Traveller rules can be borderline dull because of its hexadecimal use for character stat values and the format that characters and planets are represented in.

 

[far-trader]

I'm not saying I need game rules to read like a Dummies book with cute puns or anything. I just don't want game rules that read like "A PC's endurance characteristic is used to assign a PC's endurance characteristic value.

Agreed. I think I see what you're saying now, and that example is painful to read.

 

[ShawnDriscoll]

Most software manuals read like "Selecting the OPEN command from the FILE menu will prompt you for a file you would like to open." But as long as the software uses Windows' GUI (and not its own made up GUI that doesn't use any Windows menus), I'm ok with not having to read the manual and just use the software.

T5 may end up being used as just a reference book. It will have more than just LBBs 0-3 contained in it. Someone buying T5 as their only source of Traveller anything will of course be lugging around a hefty 600 page book. Or a laptop and all that other stuff in the laptop case.

 

[hdan]

Reading the T5 rules are kind of like reading an IBM PS/2 Model 80 manual for OS/2 Warp. I kept hoping to read fun parts of the game rules. If game rules are not interesting to me, I can't see a game being very interesting.

By odd coincidence, I know exactly the pain you are talking about. Well ok, not OS/2 Warp. Mine was 1.x where x < 3.

I have to admit, I always kind of liked the hexadecimal "Universal Whatever Profiles". Sure they're impenetrably hard to read (does anyone really have all the Gov codes memorized?) but they help illustrate the Vilani underpinnings of the Empire to me for some reason.

I like my rules to be relatively tight in general. I'd rather have a few hard rules than a handwave, even if I then decide to ignore those rules. At least I know the author bothered to come up with a system instead of just punting it to the player.

Having said that, I can't focus on rules that are too dry. A good example is Osprey's miniature war game "Field of Glory". Wow are those rules dry. And this from a guy who plays DBA.

An RPG is a whole different matter though. The rules have to make you want to play them or they aren't going to get played.

 

[Jacqual]

Or in my case lugging around a 600 page rule book in my laptop case, so I can choose whether to read dead tree or electrons lol. I am very excited about T5, but I also very much enjoy playing MGT. I think Mongoose publishing has done a fantastic job on keeping Traveller alive, I know there are errata issues and such but I don't care Mongoose has given me quite a few hours of enjoyment So thanks Matt, and tell all the Traveller team at mongoose thanks from Jacq.

 

[AndrewW]

Reading the T5 rules are kind of like reading an IBM PS/2 Model 80 manual for OS/2 Warp. I kept hoping to read fun parts of the game rules. If game rules are not interesting to me, I can't see a game being very interesting.

By odd coincidence, I know exactly the pain you are talking about. Well ok, not OS/2 Warp. Mine was 1.x where x < 3.

Hey now OS/2 is interesting... Changed a fair bit in the 3.0 interface, used 2.0, 2.1, 3.0, 4.0, WSeB, eCS myself. (Got a system here with WSeB installed though don't really use it).

 

[ShawnDriscoll]

I like my rules to be relatively tight in general. I'd rather have a few hard rules than a handwave, even if I then decide to ignore those rules. At least I know the author bothered to come up with a system instead of just punting it to the player.

Funny you said "punting". That's what I think when I see the "football field" in the combat rules for Classic Traveller. Not even a square grid for the game. You had to buy another GDW product to use square grids. Striker got rid of any grids and used miniatures rules. That's too far in the other direction from square grids for me because now you are dealing in 3D combat with elevations. The LBBs do hint at a square grid map though when describing cubic meters for ship building.