The Orieni Empire in the ISA Era for A Call to Arms

Well even the Ori had those amongst their followers who doubted and conspired against them.

Those who abandon the path are evil

Maybe coming into contact with other races makes them doubt their beliefs - or perhaps even more deviously they are actaully a fifth column who will reveal their true faith whe the time is right - nasty :)

Amica strayed from the path of enlightenment. He was forgiven, and was allowed back on the path."
 
To be honest, I somewhat disagree with an open attack on the Minbari Protectorate since I think the Minbari are wayyyy too tough for the Orieni plus the ISA would support their allies but its up to the people how they want to run it

Remember that the Minbari Protectorate isn't the Federation proper; the militia are nowhere near as well armed as the warrior caste (see signature link!)

I wouldn't think the Orieni would be dumb enough to take on their master's favoured sons in open battle (but I guess you never know), but striking during the Drakh war means that the ISA, EA and Warrior Caste are otherwise occupied. Not to mention that many of the worlds of the protectorate are former Vorlon servants from the last Shadow War, so would be attractive to the Orieni as 'those led astray by the apostate Minbari' that they can go and 'redeem'.

They could, for that matter, do it in proper ori fashion; go in as missionaries, seek converts (a lot easier than normal for telepaths :wink: ), and 'defend themselves' in a violent fashion if the planet's government tries to eject them once they become entrenched. Not covert like the Drakh, but in its own way just as insidious.

The minbari would no doubt get annoyed, and potentially even concerned, by a new religion sweeping through minor races near their space which paints them as Lucifer incarnate but they aren't being directly attacked...nor are the Orieni race 'responsible' for the acts of individual preachers (honest, guv)


Technology-wise, they did take on the Centauri but that was the early republic fleet; the Primus-class battlecruiser, if I remember correctly, was the final, high-tech, nail-in-the-coffin Centauri development. Whilst the Orieni Empire might well have developed itself in the intervening time, given the theocratic control and insular nature, they probably wouldn't have developed as much.

As noted, though, they would probably have gone into vorlon space after Corianna, looking for sacred relics, etc. This would have probably cost a lot of ships but it would be better than leaving relics around for the Minbari or Humans to loot (sadly they still stole at least one lightning cannon and quantum-space drive). In the case of the crusade's command ships this might translate to limited vorlon technology, but would be more likely to be 'bolt-ons' like a shadow omega than properly integrated like a white star. In fact, I can imagine that they might well get obessed with vorlon relics and the 'unfinished plans' of their gods - to the point that one starts seeing a certain resemblance to the Halo-verse Covenant.

If they gain ISA membership, though, the secularists might rapidly learn to produce true vorlon-tech ships rather than crude hybrids - but then it would mostly be the priests who would have the vorlon artifacts they'd need. Would they share with anyone who abandoned the faith?





The Orieni Fleet as seen was:

Flocks of small ships
Obedient-class Patrol Frigate
Steadfast-class Escort Corvette
Benevolent-class Heavy Scout

A few big ships
Prophet-class Command Ship
Paragon-class Strike Force Command Ship

And
Hunter-Killers (remote-guided suicide fighters).


The trick will be (a) making the fleet feel right so that you have a heavy and light bias without midweight ships without the priority points system falling over. I might suggest including raid-priority "two-fors" or "three-fors" and (b) stopping it feeling like Gaim or Dilgar.
 
But would the ship classes (from the navy, the OISF and the Rogolon Dynasty) detailed in The Great Crusade and Showdowns 11, and the kind of weapons and upgraded technologies seen within, not be a good place to start when dealing with an ISA-era Orieni Empire?


War lances, upgraded HKs and capital ships, medium-sized Rogolon ships to provide greater flexibility, and oher examples of the 'modern' Orieni fleet capabilities.


Plus, the OISF and Rogolons make anti-pirate operations interesting, too.
 
locarno24 said:
Remember that the Minbari Protectorate isn't the Federation proper; the militia are nowhere near as well armed as the warrior caste (see signature link!)

While true, I just take issue with the idea of the Orieni going in a straight war with the Minbari who scared the Centauri silly :D minor conflicts perhaps but if the Minbari got ticked off they can just do another Garmak/Earth style purge and nothing could save the Orieni except perhaps diplomatic pressure from the ISA or some Vorlon artifacts.

I wouldn't think the Orieni would be dumb enough to take on their master's favoured sons in open battle (but I guess you never know), but striking during the Drakh war means that the ISA, EA and Warrior Caste are otherwise occupied. Not to mention that many of the worlds of the protectorate are former Vorlon servants from the last Shadow War, so would be attractive to the Orieni as 'those led astray by the apostate Minbari' that they can go and 'redeem'.

Indeed I agree with this, infact the idea of preaching to people openly acts as a nice and opposite version of the Drakh subversion.

They could, for that matter, do it in proper ori fashion; go in as missionaries, seek converts (a lot easier than normal for telepaths :wink: ), and 'defend themselves' in a violent fashion if the planet's government tries to eject them once they become entrenched. Not covert like the Drakh, but in its own way just as insidious.

Definately agree with this, infact the Minbari's political turmoil with the whole caste problems might mean they arent very active in the Protectorate so it could become a battlefield between the minor Warrior Caste clans, Drakh and the Orieni. The first one could be attempting to maintain order, the second trying to subvert everything while the last try and spread 'enlightenment' to all.

Would be very nice to see something like the Minbari attempting to protect a world which has some Drakh trying to entice the populace against the Federation while some Orieni telepathic missionaries (read Prior of the Ori) attempt to convert them also.

The minbari would no doubt get annoyed, and potentially even concerned, by a new religion sweeping through minor races near their space which paints them as Lucifer incarnate but they aren't being directly attacked...nor are the Orieni race 'responsible' for the acts of individual preachers (honest, guv)

Indeed thats a possibility but I would suggest that it would be minor low clans of the Minbari warrior caste. That way it won't be so one sided. Another thing that the Orieni's way might appeal to certain Minbari caste who might secretly attempt to support them.

Technology-wise, they did take on the Centauri but that was the early republic fleet; the Primus-class battlecruiser, if I remember correctly, was the final, high-tech, nail-in-the-coffin Centauri development. Whilst the Orieni Empire might well have developed itself in the intervening time, given the theocratic control and insular nature, they probably wouldn't have developed as much.

That and the devastation caused with their war with the Centauri means that they might not have made many technological developments.

As noted, though, they would probably have gone into vorlon space after Corianna, looking for sacred relics, etc. This would have probably cost a lot of ships but it would be better than leaving relics around for the Minbari or Humans to loot (sadly they still stole at least one lightning cannon and quantum-space drive). In the case of the crusade's command ships this might translate to limited vorlon technology, but would be more likely to be 'bolt-ons' like a shadow omega than properly integrated like a white star. In fact, I can imagine that they might well get obessed with vorlon relics and the 'unfinished plans' of their gods - to the point that one starts seeing a certain resemblance to the Halo-verse Covenant.

Funny, I was totally picturing the Covenant as well :D an Ori/Covenant style thing. Infact, the acquisition of some Vorlon technology might help boost the Orieni's tech base might make them a dangerous threat for the other races.

If they gain ISA membership, though, the secularists might rapidly learn to produce true vorlon-tech ships rather than crude hybrids - but then it would mostly be the priests who would have the vorlon artifacts they'd need. Would they share with anyone who abandoned the faith?

Well I picture that the leadership of the Orieni (the Blessed) trying to continue the Vorlons ways while an underground movement attempts to change their ways by perhaps trying to get the ISA to help them?

Another point would be the Orieni trying to create a living vessel that mimics the Earth Alliance's attempt at creating Shadowtech vessels.

The Orieni Fleet as seen was:

Flocks of small ships
Obedient-class Patrol Frigate
Steadfast-class Escort Corvette
Benevolent-class Heavy Scout

A few big ships
Prophet-class Command Ship
Paragon-class Strike Force Command Ship

And
Hunter-Killers (remote-guided suicide fighters).

The trick will be (a) making the fleet feel right so that you have a heavy and light bias without midweight ships without the priority points system falling over. I might suggest including raid-priority "two-fors" or "three-fors" and (b) stopping it feeling like Gaim or Dilgar.

Agreed.
 
As far as fleet composition goes, the above list might be fine for a Wars of the Centauri Republic-era fleet list (which is doable - a WCR-era Centauri fleet would be fine, too!) but I was hoping to incorporate the various ship and unit types seen in The Great Crusade and Showdowns 11 for the Crusade-era Empire.


So, the Hand of the Blessed (Orieni Navy) would have the following ships:

Crusader-class Fleet Carrier
Zealot-class Cruiser
Paragon-class Strike Force Command Ship
Prophet-class Command Ship
Templar II Interceptor
Blazing Star Hunter-Killer
Overseer-class Hunter-Killer Conveyor Ship
Purifier-class Bomber
Vangeance-class Attack Frigate
Storm Front-class Missile Frigate
The Flame of Purity - flagship Paragon-class Command Ship
Devout-class Escort Frigate
Resolute-class Military Freighter
Steadfast-class Corvette
OSAT Defence satelltes

The OISF (Orieni Internal Security Forces, if I'm not mistaken - which used ships designed to echo Usuuth, Orieni and Phanop design philosophies) would have the following options:

Artokus-class Police Cruiser
Baroon-class Cutter
Novice-class LCV Carrier
Serra-class Attack Ship
Swequall-class Assault Ship
Sarlon-class Sniper mk2
Rowlon Light Fighter
Davorum-type Microsat

While the Rogolon Dynasty, incorporated into the Orieni Empire, would have ships like these in their RDSF (Rogolon Dynasty Space Force):

Garantha-class Dreadnought
Garlac-class Light Cruiser
Novice-class SHF Carrier
Taragar-class Missile Cruiser
Tolar-class Cruiser
Toron-class Attack Frigate
Tronga-class Carrier
Terak Fighter
Vastur SHF (Super Heavy Fighter)

Also, on board these ships, there would be the newer weapon systems showcased in TGC and S11 - such as the Gauss Rifles, Heavy Gauss Rifles, Laser Spears, War Lances and newer missile classes - as well as the unique Gatling Rail Gun and Flak Array systems seen aboard the Flame of Purity.

At least, those systems would be aboard Navy ships - the OISF and Rogolons had their own systems shown on the ship displays in S11.
 
Well, for one, if you are familiar with how B5W works, you could be kind enough to look at the ship details shown in TGC and S11 for those listed ships and weapon systems, and help me/us figure out what they would equate to in ACTA!

Oh - if this project actually gets off the ground, would it be a good idea to have threads dedicated to the three types of Empire-affiliated space assets (the Navy, the OISF and the RDSF) or simply stick with this thread for all three factions?

Also, again if this thread builds up a head of steam, could a dev thread for the Orieni Empoire be stickied, for people to notice and for it not to be buried should one or more of us be temporarily off the boards for whatever reason?
 
Since there might be some adapting of the background, possibly Navy becomes Crusade fleet and OISF becomes Orieni Imperial Security Forces (i.e. the secularist's fleet)?
 
Perhaps OISF ships might be the bulk of the Orieni secularists's forces - along with the Rogolons, who might well find the idea of a secular Orien to be preferable to doing everything those damned preachy teeps tell them...

...although I would still want to see a split in the Navy, between those which become a part of a secular 'Imperial' force, and those which remain committed as the Hand of the Blessed.

So while Orien becomes the secularists' new capital, the Flame of Purity would be the flying site of the Crusading Blessed's efforts to assert their authority.
 
Long time no see :shock:
I put a possible army list for Centauri vs Orieni up on the forums probably about 1-2 years ago so i would be surprised if it is still actually here
if not i may still have the original ideas somewhere if anyone is interested
 
There are two separate issues here.


One is whether we can do an historical Centauri-Orieni War setup for ACTA - basically porting over Wars of the Centauri Republic to A Call to Arms.

While that is certainly a valid setup, and one I'd be happy to see, I guess this thread seems to be more about a Crusade-era Orieni fleet, based (or not) on the Orieni, OISF and Rogolon ships seen in The Great Crusade and Showdowns 11 (but re-working the political aspect of the re-emergent Empire from that seen in TGC to more closely match Mongoose's take on the Crusade era) - and which would also allow for would-be Orieni Empire players to take their ships up against Drakh, ISA and other fleets in something approximating an historically accurate setting.

Well, technically one could use Orieni ships with the appropriate YIS dates to field Third Age-era Orieni fleets, too.


I wonder if there should not be a further thread which goes into the C-O War as an historical setting (which, of course, gives us historical Drazi, Abbai and other factions' ships to consider - though the Minbari and Drakh would not need a lot of work in that regard) and therefore keep the focus of this thread on the 'contemporary' Empire?


Of course, your lists are most welcome - but if they are based on WCR as opposed to TGC, would they be best served by going in a parallel thread to this one?
 
Actually the oreni already came back and fought the ISA, looky here:

http://planetside.firenebula.com/supplements/index.php
The Great Crusade: The Rebirth of the Orieni Empire
Also the Showdowns 11 is a good addition to this one.

It is a fan based supplement for b5wars of which i know a great deal. just ask and i can maybe help you work out some things.
 
I suggest two seperate threats as the Orieni Centauri War and the Great Crusade are two very different issues.

Looking at the weapons the Orieni use a very large variety of weapons,
ranging from small gatling railguns and missiles up to laser lances and gauss cannons. In addition they use kamikaze fighters in a similar way to the Gaim. The Orieni Fleet is split into two separate classes of ships, similar to the Drakh. They use small Frigates for attack, defense and escort and the large ships like the Prophet as battleship and command element.
 
Knave1:

Hi there!


We have already been talking about TGC and S11 in this thread - however it seems that while I would like to use the ships and tech seen in those supplements without much in the way of changes, the Crusade as described in TGC needs to be re-written significantly if it is to fit the ISA-era B5 setting as portrayed by Mongoose.

Please have a read of the thread as it stands, and let us know if you have any new ideas!


Tolwyn:

Noted.

Though bear in mind that with the new Navy ships, OISF vessels and Rogolon craft seen in TGC and S11 on offer, the ISA-era Empire has more options than its WCR-era equivalent had.
 
Technology:

Well, railguns have an existing statline in A Call To Arms, and it's a simple enough technology that it can be cross-race. I never quite understood why every race simply must have completely different armament to every other race....I'd make a gauss rifle a railgun as a default starting weapon.

Missile/Railgun pairings, however, will make the fleet look a lot like Dilgar and Early EA.....not ideal.

If we take the ship classes as listed:


Templar II Interceptor
Purifier-class Bomber

Default attack craft. A dogfighter and a lightweight missile bomber?
One could field Templars in the early era and the Templar IIs in the post Vorlon Exodus fleet

Crusader-class Fleet Carrier

Exactly what it says on the tin, I guess.

Blazing Star Hunter-Killer
Overseer-class Hunter-Killer Conveyor Ship

I'd suggest the HK being a super-heavy weight suicide fighter; exceptionally vulnerable to interception but packing an almighty bang! Having them on a specific carrier other than the crusader class helps seperate them out and stops you fielding dozens and dozens of them...since they're supposed to be remote-piloted, some sort of limit to the number in the air at once might be good.



Zealot-class Cruiser
Vengeance-class Attack Frigate
Devout-class Escort Frigate
Steadfast-class Corvette
Three weights of warship - presumably patrol, skirmish & raid vessels, with the Devout being a fighter defence version of the Vengeance...

Storm Front-class Missile Frigate
Same size as the Devout and Vengeance, this time an artillery ship.

The Flame of Purity - flagship Paragon-class Command Ship
Paragon-class Strike Force Command Ship
Prophet-class Command Ship

The Paragon is the Prophet's big brother - or possibly the Prophet is the newer, more sophisticated (hence smaller & cheaper) command ship for missions that don't demand the presence of a Paragon-class. I quite like the idea of the Flame of Purity featuring in both eras - a unique ship, obviously - but going up a priority level and gaining vorlon relics in the later fleet.



Resolute-class Military Freighter

Probably rename and rerole to an assault troopship
 
Well actually they could happen at the same time, during the 2260s. Here is why:
Earth supposedly had cut off its borders because of the plague (according to great Crusade) but in acta Earth is trying to kill as many drakh as possible in vengence.
Centauri mostly kept out of the Great Crusade if i remember correctly.
Most of the League was still! building its fleets back up after the Shadow war (what do they only have one shipyard a piece? haha).
The league that did go to help the Minbari had to go around the EA, so took a while.
And the White Star fleet went in to take on the Oreni, but needed support or they would get overwhelmed and destroyed and considering once you lose a white star it is gone for good, because the volrons aren;t there to help build them as well as they originally did. (which is my reasoning for them building the other weapon varian whitestars, and also why the gunship and carrier are not as good as the original).

Plus if you make the Oreni Great Crusade at the same time then it causes more upheval in the galaxy which could explain why they and also the Drakh (seperately) could stand up to the other races in the galaxy.

Also if i remember correctly the Drakh are mentioned in Centauri wars of the Republic and pretty much set up the Oreni for a hard fall. And also end up gaining some hatred of the Centauri because of that whole war.
 
Back
Top