The new Starship Operator's Manual is here!

The ™ is a symbol in the font.

I assume this is an issue for the Board Admins. I don't suppose there is any way to have the BB-code for things like this enabled on the Board, is there (i.e. Superscript/Subscript, et al)? On a board discussing Science and Sci-Fi, they would be very handy to have available.
 
We did. You didn't see our call, true, but we didn't intentionally exclude the majority of possible respondents.
Then you didn't put the call out beyond a tiny number, and you have definitely excluded people who actually know the canon.
Didn't we use helium, not hydrogen, because helium kept being produced as a waste product of fusion anyway?
How does extremely very hot hot helium cool down the ship? How do you cool the helium down so that it can be used as a coolant?
That is the disconnect. In the explanations we found and used, it acts like a membrane. That's also why we had the note about garbage disposal in jumpspace potentially destabilizing the bubble.
So you go with the one in five explanation that is not needed, invalidates the collectors, and now require even more handwaving to explain something that is in an actual product (Great Rift). So now there are six canon descriptions two of which contradict setting canon, yours being one of them.

That's the other thing I will never use.

A field effect force works at a distance and doesn't require a medium through which to propagate.
 
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Could it be handwaved that at higher TL, the hydrogen bubble is no longer necessary as refinements in jump drives mean the jump field has enough stability? The Vilani dimmed the lights to save every last bit of power to ensure jump, but then with time and advancement this was no longer necessary and persisted purely out of a sense of tradition.
 
That's not a bad idea. The collector appears at TL14, by which time you can make save 30% on jump fuel for jump1 and 2 drives.
 
Perhaps you should have looked at the various iterations (MWM Jumpspace article, MT SOM, TNE FF&S, T4 FF&S, T5)
post 22 of this very thread:
I'll stick with MWM and the majority of Traveller iterations - you have adopted the T4 fanon made canon, one from five sources, it is the outlier.
We did, multiple times. But the long and short of it is this: this book is a Mongoose Traveller book, and Mongoose Traveller has chosen to use the hydrogen-inside-the-bubble paradigm from T4. Irrespective of its merits, it is one of the hanging threads we had the obligation to weave together.

For is worth, however;
Could it be handwaved that at higher TL, the hydrogen bubble is no longer necessary as refinements in jump drives mean the jump field has enough stability? The Vilani dimmed the lights to save every last bit of power to ensure jump, but then with time and advancement this was no longer necessary and persisted purely out of a sense of tradition.

That is my reasoning as well, especially considering that in Mg2nd you can already have a Jump Drive use only 8.5% of the ship's volume per parsec jumped by using three Decreased Fuel advantages (High Guard 2022, Pg.71) on any given jump drive, once at 3 TLs above its introduction.

The existence of Collectors and that they both power and create/expand the jump field without requiring literal tons of hydrogen is already in-universe evidence that, not only is it possible, it is viable and done. From there it is not a stretch to assume a sophont species that has figured out how to miniaturise M/AM Annihilation Plants down to a starship-portable size and create the infrastructure to supply it with its fuel would have figured out how to do that as well.

Why carry water and liquid hydrogen? Just carry water there is a greater density of hydrogen per displacement ton then in liquid hydrogen.

Yes, that's precisely what I was saying, and why despite a good idea, I think a pure "hydrogen-as-coolant" hypothesis presents some problems.

Since you have brought up heat and coolant - where does all the waste heat produced on the ship go?

It flows very efficiently into the good-will of the Traveller players who kindly accept it as part of the suspension of disbelief for the setting*.
*I'm being tongue-in-cheek

At some point any work of fiction, when sufficiently scrutinised, breaks. We paid lip-service to the realities of thermodynamics, but either we'd have retconned huge thermal management systems into Traveller ships, or we accepted that we'd have to dust it under the carpet of disbelief suspension, and that's what we chose.

For what it's worth, I actually think that your idea of gravity waves carrying away the waste heat as part of M-Drive operations is excellent, and I've already readily accepted it into my headcanon.
 
I assume this is an issue for the Board Admins. I don't suppose there is any way to have the BB-code for things like this enabled on the Board, is there (i.e. Superscript/Subscript, et al)? On a board discussing Science and Sci-Fi, they would be very handy to have available.
I can look into it, but no promises!
 
We did, multiple times. But the long and short of it is this: this book is a Mongoose Traveller book, and Mongoose Traveller has chosen to use the hydrogen-inside-the-bubble paradigm from T4. Irrespective of its merits, it is one of the hanging threads we had the obligation to weave together.
Fair enough.
That is my reasoning as well, especially considering that in Mg2nd you can already have a Jump Drive use only 8.5% of the ship's volume per parsec jumped by using three Decreased Fuel advantages (High Guard 2022, Pg.71) on any given jump drive, once at 3 TLs above its introduction.
It's a good compromise.
The existence of Collectors and that they both power and create/expand the jump field without requiring literal tons of hydrogen is already in-universe evidence that, not only is it possible, it is viable and done. From there it is not a stretch to assume a sophont species that has figured out how to miniaturise M/AM Annihilation Plants down to a starship-portable size and create the infrastructure to supply it with its fuel would have figured out how to do that as well.
Maybe it could be a fuel saving option in HG or a HG article in JTAS or Companion 2 - an option to have a fusion powered jump drive with no hydrogen bubble at TL14+
Yes, that's precisely what I was saying, and why despite a good idea, I think a pure "hydrogen-as-coolant" hypothesis presents some problems.
I agree completely.
It flows very efficiently into the good-will of the Traveller players who kindly accept it as part of the suspension of disbelief for the setting*.
*I'm being tongue-in-cheek

At some point any work of fiction, when sufficiently scrutinised, breaks. We paid lip-service to the realities of thermodynamics, but either we'd have retconned huge thermal management systems into Traveller ships, or we accepted that we'd have to dust it under the carpet of disbelief suspension, and that's what we chose.

For what it's worth, I actually think that your idea of gravity waves carrying away the waste heat as part of M-Drive operations is excellent, and I've already readily accepted it into my headcanon.
Not just the m-drive, but all gravitics. It's not too late to briefly include it in SOM and then expand in a JTAS/Companion article (like I said in the feedback thread it would allow referees to go all in on stealth in space) :)
 
We went through several versions of the exact mechanics of jump handwavium before we ended with the one that we thought could tie together as many of the previous interpretations of how jump works. If the one in the book does not appease you, I offer you the following alternative interpretation:

The jump bubble is a physical effect created by the electrification of Lanthanum (& Friends™) while it is in jump space. The diameter of the field is maximal when all the lanthanum is lumped together in a solid sphere (within the jump drive), and smaller the more dispersed it is (like say, a grid on the hull). As long as it is electrified, the field will hold.

Most of the above seamlessly meshes with what is already on the book, so minimal conversion needed. The use for hydrogen then is up to your favourite flavour: power plant flare-up, active cooling, or both.
It doesn't do what you think it does then.
It fails the collector test, and the antimatter test.
The hydrogen has probably been transformed into exotic particles.

OK. It has been already touched upon by others in one way or another, but here is my shot at reconciliation of the "Jump-Bubble" and "Hydrogen gas/plasma cloud" idea:

  • Our perceived "Universe" is a "ground-state bubble" (i.e. reference the "Inflationary Big Bang" model or some version of it) that has dropped out of an Inflationary FTL-Expanding multidimensional "universe" which is itself an "excitation state" of the Greater Universe as a whole. (Or at least so it is believed by Imperial Cosmologists).
  • Jump drive depends upon the creation of a "Jump-field", which is the generation of a spatial "excitation-state" related to the "hyperspatial/hypergravitational spaces/spacetimes" that exist "above/below" the N-Space 4D-Universe we are familiar with (alluded to on MgT2-SOM p. 82). These hyperspatial excitation-state "regimes" exist in various quantized "levels" that correspond to the Higher-order drive technologies that Imperial scientists are beginning to speculate about (Jump/Hop/Skip . . . etc), and can themselves only be individually entered into in quantized whole-number transitions within the particular "regime" (i.e. J-1/J-2/J-3 . . . , H-1/H-2/H-3 . . . , S-1/S-2/S-3 . . ., etc). These correspond to standing waves in the wave-function in Jump-Theory describing the mathematical-transform of J-Space to N-Space.
  • Through a deeper understanding of fundamental forces and particle interactions (@ TL9/10+), the Jump drive mechanisms created by the races of Charted Space transform protons (quarks actually) into exotic " jump-particles * " through an induced reverse-decay-reaction similar to the analogous strong/electroweak-damper mediated reactions of nuclear-dampers. This reaction is a part of the "Consolidated Theory of Gravity (CTG)" (See AotI) which includes the full understanding and manipulation of gravity, pseudo-gravity, and its underlying relationship to hypergravity & jumpspace.
* We need to invent a better "proper name" for these exotic particles/jump-particles, and unfortunately Physicists already nicked "Hyperons" for the heavy baryons long ago. "Hypergravitons"? I don't particularly care for the supersymmetry-inspired "Hypersquarks".

  • The newly-induced exotic particles resultant from the transformed proton-plasma (i.e. Hydrogen) create and correspond to the excitation-state of the field creating the FTL-hypergravity/Jump-space region. The exotic particles are unstable and will exponentially decay into an (unspecified boson), a neutral pion (and the pion into gamma rays) and a positron after a set half-life. (The positrons will tend to annihilate the electrons from the hydrogen plasma, forming more gamma rays). Part of the purpose of the hull-grid or the central jump-coil/core components is also to project a repulsive field (gravitic and/or electromagnetic) against the protons and exotic particles so that a region is maintained between the hull and the inner edge of the exotic particle field that is free of particles, thus maintaining a normal 4D/N-Space environment.
  • Collectors utilize an arcane mechanism to induce direct exotic particle creation from virtual processes in the hyper-gravitational wave ground state and gravitational wave backround, and so do not require a hydrogen plasma to transform into particles thru mediated-induction.
  • Antimatter Power systems can be set up to couple with Jump-drives to induce direct particle-antiparticle pair creation that can be used to generate exotic particle production, and so do not need to carry hydrogen to transform into plasma for exotic particle creation.

That is my best shot for a Handwave-Science/Sci-Fi technobabble explanation to incorporate a Hydrogen "bubble". Feel free to amend or suggest modifications as necessary.
 
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There's some good ideas coming into this from everyone, nice.

Although, to be honest, my players "just need to know where.they.are" 😂

Sure. Different people want different levels of "crunch". :) Some people just need to know: "It works . . . so don't ask questions. It gets you to the adventure / makes the adventure/setting possible". And that's fine. I get it.

But for those of us with the science-techie inclination to things, we want the blueprints . . . ;)
 
You always have to bear in mind, the lanthanum grid doesn't need a jump bubble, just a field that's skin tight.

So the bubble must support the field, or at least, allows it's manifestation without the need to gird the hull with the lanthanum grid.

Essentially, girdless, therefore, gridless.
 
Sure. Different people want different levels of "crunch". :) Some people just need to know: "It works . . . so don't ask questions. It gets you to the adventure / makes the adventure/setting possible". And that's fine. I get it.

But for those of us with the science-techie inclination to things, we want the blueprints . . . ;)
I do too to be honest, it's one of the reasons I was looking forward to the manual coming out.
As a lad I grew up with Thunderbirds Annuals every Christmas which had the cutaway drawings and I used to pore over them to see how those machines worked :)
 
Gabriel's got most of this, but:
How does extremely very hot hot helium cool down the ship? How do you cool the helium down so that it can be used as a coolant?
You put more heat into it and expel it, with its heat, from the ship. This is how hydrogen (after becoming helium) gets used up and removed from the boat, on a non-jump spacecraft.

The helium is super-hot while under super-high pressure, in the fusion reactor. Pressure times volume has a linear relationship to temperature: see the ideal gas law. Thus, manipulating the pressure (assisted by gravitics) and volume (with different-size pipes, as commonly done by refrigerators today) can manipulate the temperature.

Gravitics and fusion modify parts of the process, but the basics of cooling via this method is real world technology.
 
Gabriel's got most of this, but:
Really, I have yet to see any reasonable treatment of waste heat removal.
You put more heat into it and expel it, with its heat, from the ship.
So you are taking waste plasma at 200,000K say and transferring heat to it? How? Hot stuff moves to cold, not the other way around, unless you do work, which generates yet more waste heat. The ship is a closed system, the only way to remove waste heat is to radiate it as EM or gravitic radiation, or dump lots of very very hot stuff out of the ship.

The gravitics and the dampers needed to make fusion+ work will require power, this generates more waste heat.

This is how hydrogen (after becoming helium) gets used up and removed from the boat, on a non-jump spacecraft.
You would be venting huge amounts of very hot gas, say goodbye to any pretense at stealth.
The helium is super-hot while under super-high pressure, in the fusion reactor. Pressure times volume has a linear relationship to temperature: see the ideal gas law. Thus, manipulating the pressure (assisted by gravitics) and volume (with different-size pipes, as commonly done by refrigerators today) can manipulate the temperature.
What happens to the back of a refrigerator? It gets very hot. Why is that?

You should be looking at the combined gas law.
(P1xV1)/T1=(P2xV2)/T2
Gravitics and fusion modify parts of the process, but the basics of cooling via this method is real world technology.
Not even remotely close to real world application of heat pumps to move heat around ie central heating system heat pumps, air conditioners and refrigerators.
 
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Does it matter?

And if so, why?
Does any of it matter? No, not if you are happy with the handwavium. I am not, at least with this one little bit.

I have stated many times it is a good book, well put together and does a good job adding to the verisimilitude of the setting. But thermodynamics is a pretty key concept in science, and Traveller has always lacked a satisfactory way of handwaving it.
This is an opportunity to correct that, and add to the setting rather than cause more issues with it.

As it stands if a ship is venting red hot plasma continuously then you re wasting Cr on stealth coatings and all that guff.

Gravitcs offer a solution to several problems - how so little energy input can have such a massive energy output (the energy released by the fusion+ power plant is a very small fraction of the energy needed to increase the kinetic energy of the ship), it is already hinted at that gravitational radiation can be used in comms, so why not add a sentence to say waste heat can be converted via gravitics to gravitic radiation.

You can now also use stealth coatings etc to play the sub hunt game a lot of people appear to be interested in.
 
Does require expulsion of mass from spacecraft.

Which, outside of the lavatory, seem to happen only with reactionary rockets, and ye jump bubble.
 
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