The new Starship Operator's Manual is here!

[phavoc]

CT did not have a lanthanum hull grid. Only MT, T4 and now MgT. Zuchai crystals were introduced in A4.
A black globe could power your jump capacitors, but the rules state you still need fuel to jump.

It's mentioned specifically in the Kinunir supplement - "Lanthanum: A rare earth element, the first of the inner transition metals. Vital
to the construction of the inner coils of interstellar jump drive units." and in the Library Data A-M booklet. And a few other places within CT.

In HG it does specifically state that black globes can power the jump drive, but that the ship also needs jump fuel. However this is contradicted elsewhere in CT where it describes the process by which the ship rapidly consumes its fuel to power the capacitors to power the jump drive (and, of course, the Annic nova accumulators). Traveller is full of contradictions, but the idea that your fusion plant rapidly cycles through its' fuel to charge the capacitors isn't an idea that I (recall at least) being contradicted elsewhere in the literature. So, for me personally, I interpret the need for fuel when your capacitors are fully charged as one of the errors. I try to generally stay within each iteration of Traveller for a fair comparison of tech and explanations.

 

[WHULorigan]

CT did not have a lanthanum hull grid. Only MT, T4 and now MgT. Zuchai crystals were introduced in A4.
A black globe could power your jump capacitors, but the rules state you still need fuel to jump.

It's mentioned specifically in the Kinunir supplement - "Lanthanum: A rare earth element, the first of the inner transition metals. Vital
to the construction of the inner coils of interstellar jump drive units." and in the Library Data A-M booklet. And a few other places within CT.

That's the difference. In CT (including Kinunir, Library Data, et al), there is no Lanthanum hull-grid. The Lanthanum is used for the "inner coils", whatever those might be. But a hull grid certainly is not the same as inner coils.

MT introduced the idea of a hull-grid, and that Lanthanum was also used in its construction as well.

 

[Sigtrygg]

It's mentioned specifically in the Kinunir supplement - "Lanthanum: A rare earth element, the first of the inner transition metals. Vital
to the construction of the inner coils of interstellar jump drive units." and in the Library Data A-M booklet. And a few other places within CT.

Inner coils, not hull grid. Doping the jump cables (which are mentioned in MWMs article) with lanthanum is a DGPism. Mongoose has now settled it by having lanthanum drive coils and lanthanum doping in the hull grid.

In HG it does specifically state that black globes can power the jump drive, but that the ship also needs jump fuel. However this is contradicted elsewhere in CT where it describes the process by which the ship rapidly consumes its fuel to power the capacitors to power the jump drive (and, of course, the Annic nova accumulators).

The MWM article explains that you need the fuel for energy generation, coolant, and carrying away waste products. The article mentions a capacitor charging sequence but it is not clear if fuel must continue to be fed through the system until the ship jumps. if all that is needed is charged capacitors then HG is wrong, and there is no reason a fission power plant orr even diesel generators couldn't power a jump drive

Traveller is full of contradictions, but the idea that your fusion plant rapidly cycles through its' fuel to charge the capacitors isn't an idea that I (recall at least) being contradicted elsewhere in the literature. So, for me personally, I interpret the need for fuel when your capacitors are fully charged as one of the errors. I try to generally stay within each iteration of Traveller for a fair comparison of tech and explanations.

I think the majority consensus is tied between the fully charged capaciitors are either a power rectification or are akin to a starter motor.

 

[Condottiere]

The hydrogen has probably been transformed into exotic particles.

 

[WingedCat]

Obviously, SOM is for MgT2e so should work with that description. Which it does. I'm just going to change it IMTU

Yeah, sorry, we couldn't resolve ALL the discrepancies, though we tried.

 

[Sigtrygg]

The hydrogen filled bubble could have been removed, I have shown you its evolution due to misunderstanding and the fact that T5 doesn't use it, collectors don't use it, antimatter powered drives don't use it.

I look forward to the convoluted handwavium necessary to now explain something that could have just been consigned to the cutting room floor.

I'd rather the hydrogen jump bubbles were cut and you kept the collector section, since collectors are used in the Great Rift.

It may even have freed up space for you to deal with waste heat

 

[vargr1]

Yeah, sorry, we couldn't resolve ALL the discrepancies, though we tried.

Don't sweat it. You'll never be able too.

Most people don't really care as long as an edition is self-consistent. Locking yourself into some sort of 'canon' just because it was published in an earlier edition isn't necessary. I really doubt any adventure is going to hinge on whether or not there's a bubble of H2 around a ship or not.

 

[WHULorigan]

. . . I really doubt any adventure is going to hinge on whether or not there's a bubble of H2 around a ship or not.

Well, if you have a minor hull-breach during jump and you are venting Oxygen . . .

 

[Iracundus]

Could one way to rationalize it be just having these be different ways of jumping? Just like it said Vilani and Terran fusion plant designs varied before Fusion+ but now most are developments based off of Fusion+. So maybe there are different designs of jump drive and some use the H2 bubble and some don't.

 

[WHULorigan]

Could one way to rationalize it be just having these be different ways of jumping? Just like it said Vilani and Terran fusion plant designs varied before Fusion+ but now most are developments based off of Fusion+. So maybe there are different designs of jump drive and some use the H2 bubble and some don't.

I think it is more a matter of finding a rationalization of why do you need an H2 jump bubble for a given jump drive configuration in the first place? What is it really (believably) supposed to do or accomplish? At least that is the issue for me. I can't figure it out (other than the possible coolant/venting/heat-radiating issue in a domain without g-fields to transfer the heat away gravitically).

 

[WingedCat]

I think it is more a matter of finding a rationalization of why do you need an H2 jump bubble for a given jump drive configuration in the first place? What is it really (believably) supposed to do or accomplish? At least that is the issue for me. I can't figure it out (other than the possible coolant/venting/heat-radiating issue in a domain without g-fields to transfer the heat away gravitically).

To keep the jump bubble from collapsing in on the ship. The H2 impacts the bubble and gently pushes it away, just enough to keep it away from the ship for the duration of the jump.

 

[WHULorigan]

To keep the jump bubble from collapsing in on the ship. The H2 impacts the bubble and gently pushes it away, just enough to keep it away from the ship for the duration of the jump.

That is what I gather is the standard explanation. I guess for me I just have never bought that rationalization. To me, if Jumpspace will decompose the atoms/particles of my ship & crew thru altered physics, it will do it just as effectively to the hydrogen gas/plasma around my ship & crew. It doesn't seem to me that a hydrogen gas/plasma bubble should significantly slow that process down. I do not imagine the "Jump-bubble" as a "membrane" that can have pressure exerted against it.

 

[vargr1]

That is what I gather is the standard explanation. I guess for me I just have never bought that rationalization. To me, if Jumpspace will decompose the atoms/particles of my ship & crew thru altered physics, it will do it just as effectively to the hydrogen gas/plasma around my ship & crew. It doesn't seem to me that a hydrogen gas/plasma bubble should significantly slow that process down. I do not imagine the "Jump-bubble" as a "membrane" that can have pressure exerted against it.

Other people do.

 

[Condottiere]

Think of the jump bubble as a pimple.

 

[GabrielGABFonseca]

That is what I gather is the standard explanation. I guess for me I just have never bought that rationalization. To me, if Jumpspace will decompose the atoms/particles of my ship & crew thru altered physics, it will do it just as effectively to the hydrogen gas/plasma around my ship & crew. It doesn't seem to me that a hydrogen gas/plasma bubble should significantly slow that process down. I do not imagine the "Jump-bubble" as a "membrane" that can have pressure exerted against it.

We went through several versions of the exact mechanics of jump handwavium before we ended with the one that we thought could tie together as many of the previous interpretations of how jump works. If the one in the book does not appease you, I offer you the following alternative interpretation:

The jump bubble is a physical effect created by the electrification of Lanthanum (& Friends™) while it is in jump space. The diameter of the field is maximal when all the lanthanum is lumped together in a solid sphere (within the jump drive), and smaller the more dispersed it is (like say, a grid on the hull). As long as it is electrified, the field will hold.

Most of the above seamlessly meshes with what is already on the book, so minimal conversion needed. The use for hydrogen then is up to your favourite flavour: power plant flare-up, active cooling, or both.

(Though, as a tangent; while the idea of hydrogen as coolant is superficially a good one, I find it makes very little sense when scrutinised a bit deeper. Why would you use such a non-dense substance when you could use plain water, which has an enormous heat capacity, is comically common, and is vastly denser than hydrogen? But I digress.)

 

[Sigtrygg]

We went through several versions of the exact mechanics of jump handwavium before we ended with the one that we thought could tie together as many of the previous interpretations of how jump works. If the one in the book does not appease you, I offer you the following alternative interpretation:

It doesn't do what you think it does then.
It fails the collector test, and the antimatter test.
Perhaps you should have looked at the various iterations (MWM Jumpspace article, MT SOM, TNE FF&S, T4 FF&S, T5)
post 22 of this very thread:

The new Starship Operator's Manual is here!

At some point someone wrote that the masses of hydrogen in fuel were used to fill the area of the jump bubble. I'm assuming this is an attempt to reconcile that era with the other explanations of jump tech. But I never liked that hydrogen bubble theory. Of course, I don't like the "power plant...

forum.mongoosepublishing.com

Or asked outside your small group - SJG used to take onboard suggestions from the playtest group.

The jump bubble is a physical effect created by the electrification of Lanthanum (& Friends™) while it is in jump space. The diameter of the field is maximal when all the lanthanum is lumped together in a solid sphere (within the jump drive), and smaller the more dispersed it is (like say, a grid on the hull). As long as it is electrified, the field will hold.

Force fields - electric, magnetic, gravitic - do not require a medium to operate. You don't need hydrogen to maintain a field effect.

Most of the above seamlessly meshes with what is already on the book, so minimal conversion needed. The use for hydrogen then is up to your favourite flavour: power plant flare-up, active cooling, or both.

I'll stick with MWM and the majority of Traveller iterations - you have adopted the T4 fanon made canon, one fromfive sources, it is the outlier.

(Though, as a tangent; while the idea of hydrogen as coolant is superficially a good one, I find it makes very little sense when scrutinised a bit deeper. Why would you use such a non-dense substance when you could use plain water, which has an enormous heat capacity, is comically common, and is vastly denser than hydrogen? But I digress.)

Why carry water and liquid hydrogen? Just carry water there is a greater density of hydrogen per displacement ton then in liquid hydrogen.

Since you have brought up heat and coolant - where does all the waste heat produced on the ship go?

 

[WHULorigan]

. . . (& Friends™) . . .

Another totally off-topic question: How on Earth did you get the Superscript and Subscript functions to work on this post??? I have tried unsuccessfully to use the standard BB-Code brackets for it already in the past and I am at a loss. What is the secret?

 

[CordwainerFish]

Another totally off-topic question: How on Earth did you get the Superscript and Subscript functions to work on this post??? I have tried unsuccessfully to use the standard BB-Code brackets for it already in the past and I am at a loss. What is the secret?

™ is a Unicode character. (It was added to the standard so that one could write Harlan Ellison™'s name with the appropriate level of snark.)

 

[WingedCat]

Another totally off-topic question: How on Earth did you get the Superscript and Subscript functions to work on this post??? I have tried unsuccessfully to use the standard BB-Code brackets for it already in the past and I am at a loss. What is the secret?

I believe that was using ™ the Unicode character. I was able to copy and paste it into this post, no tags needed.

Or asked outside your small group

We did. You didn't see our call, true, but we didn't intentionally exclude the majority of possible respondents.

while the idea of hydrogen as coolant is superficially a good one, I find it makes very little sense when scrutinised a bit deeper. Why would you use such a non-dense substance when you could use plain water, which has an enormous heat capacity, is comically common, and is vastly denser than hydrogen?

Didn't we use helium, not hydrogen, because helium kept being produced as a waste product of fusion anyway?

I do not imagine the "Jump-bubble" as a "membrane" that can have pressure exerted against it.

That is the disconnect. In the explanations we found and used, it acts like a membrane. That's also why we had the note about garbage disposal in jumpspace potentially destabilizing the bubble.

 

[shirgall]

The ™ is a symbol in the font.