The Gray Council Sharlin

[Locutus9956]

Assumtion 4 B5 wars got there first yet again

(cue usual 'B5 Wars isnt ACTA' rant... got that out of your systems? good then I'll carry on )

In B5 Wars the Grey Sharlin was identical to a standard one, but had SLIGHTLY better engines, sensors and a small increase in armour on its hull and main systems. Its weapons and fighter compliment and jammers were identical to a regular sharlin.

I would translate that to ACTA as:

War Level but Unique
Standard sharlin, but give it speed 9 or 10, an extra 4-6 crew and damage points, an extra troops point. MAYBE give it an extra point of antifighter to represent the bonus you could get in locking multiple targets for the sensors.

Thats it. No extra weapons, no decreased fighters. It's a unique ship and as such SHOULD be slightly ahead of the curve compared to a standard one. (I personally think that the 'Unique' trait should make a ship worth extra victory points anyway but thats neither here nor there)

 

[nekomata fuyu]

I'd give it an equivilent of the Gaim's queen rule, when you get double VP for the vessel. Then again, there's a few ships in ACTA that I'd give that rule to...

 

[Triggy]

Assumtion 4 B5 wars got there first yet again

(cue usual 'B5 Wars isnt ACTA' rant... got that out of your systems? good then I'll carry on )

In B5 Wars the Grey Sharlin was identical to a standard one, but had SLIGHTLY better engines, sensors and a small increase in armour on its hull and main systems. Its weapons and fighter compliment and jammers were identical to a regular sharlin.

I would translate that to ACTA as:

War Level but Unique
Standard sharlin, but give it speed 9 or 10, an extra 4-6 crew and damage points, an extra troops point. MAYBE give it an extra point of antifighter to represent the bonus you could get in locking multiple targets for the sensors.

Thats it. No extra weapons, no decreased fighters. It's a unique ship and as such SHOULD be slightly ahead of the curve compared to a standard one. (I personally think that the 'Unique' trait should make a ship worth extra victory points anyway but thats neither here nor there)

The trouble with doing that in ACtA is that everybody will take this over a standard Sharlin as their first "Sharlin" choice. I'd be happy with your changes but just drop a little on the Mini-Beams or 1AD on the Neutron Lasers to compensate for the increased defences.

After all, although loads of people are saying "would you rather have the weapons or not?", if there is a space/resources issue, the question should be, "For your world's leaders, would you rather have better defences or better weapons?" Then the answer becomes a little clearer why Air Force One is equipped as it is rather than having lots of weapons.

 

[Da Boss]

I presume it is too comlicated to make a ship worth a War point and a Skirmish point or similar.

It is very difficult to make a ship a bit better than another without jumping to the whole next PL..........

 

[Sammich!]

So what's the weaponry in air force one USA has these days? By this logic it would make your average fighter pale in comparison! F-16 is joke! Bring on the air force one with it's superior weaponry!

I'm not getting your Air Force comparisons. >_>


I thought the rules I wrote up/changed are decent. They make it even-ish for a war level, and give you reasons to possibly want a different variant more.

give it an extra 4-6 crew and damage points, an extra troops point.

More people? The halls of the Council Sharlin are usually like, abandoned. :? (Not that normal Sharlins are crowded, but, you know.)

 

[Triggy]

So what's the weaponry in air force one USA has these days? By this logic it would make your average fighter pale in comparison! F-16 is joke! Bring on the air force one with it's superior weaponry!

I'm not getting your Air Force comparisons. >_>


I thought the rules I wrote up/changed are decent. They make it even-ish for a war level, and give you reasons to possibly want a different variant more.

give it an extra 4-6 crew and damage points, an extra troops point.

More people? The halls of the Council Sharlin are usually like, abandoned. :? (Not that normal Sharlins are crowded, but, you know.)

Your stats make it way over the top defensively, with increased firepower and only a drop in Fighters that really has any negative effect. Although I do like a rise in Stealth being the boost that it gets...

 

[locarno24]

Given the Valentha's role, it is going to be better in some areas, and worse in others, than a normal Sharlin.

Improved neutron lasers are a no-no, I'd say. Improved firepower generally is a no-no. It's not supposed to get into a fight, and even a down-gunned Sharlin can bend over just about any other race's normal ship of the line and do unspeakable things to it in pretty short order.

The model one should be looking at is the Abbai Milani carrier which was refitted into the Marata diplomatic transport, swapping its fighters and most of its main armament for shields, armour and speed.
Obviously not shields, but armour and speed seem sensible, as would some additional hit points and a small command bonus. The Valentha might not be commanding the battle by committee but it has (by definition) got the three most 'ard members of the warrior caste on board and it's a fair bet that one of them will be in overall command of any fleet action happening in the vicininty.

As for fighters - less nials, but probably more flyers; they're the minbari's diplomatic runaround and it's hard to imagine that the effective of government can manage with only six.

 

[H]

I have to say I'm not seeing the point here at all?

Why would a C+C ship be better? surely it would be worse as it has better command facilities, which need to be powered somehow?
the SHarlin "was" incomparable in the Galaxy, nothing but an Ancient could touch it when in a war footing apart from a one off cleverly laid trap.

is the Royal Navies Flagship the best it can be? Nope, is the US Navies flagship the bvest it can be? nope.. both are vulnerable to attacks from certain types of warfare and their own actual weapons loadouts are quite poor.

Why the Command Omega? well the Omega is not the Pinacle of current earth design, it is inferior to the Sharlin for one, and can be argued that it is inferior to any number of other ships at the time of it's inception. ot is natural progression, like the Sharoos "could" be considered a progression of the Sharlin.

I don't dislike the idea per se, i just find your argument for it very flawed.

 

[M1ndr1d3rs]

I can't say much about the Valen'Tha, so maybe this is kinda off topic, but...
Wouldn't the Drala'Fi aka Black Star (Shargoti Class according to Wiki) be a better choice if you want to do an even nastier Sharlin. It may even warrant Armageddon level.

 

[Taran]

The best defence is NOT a good offence. It's not being shot at by the enemy AT ALL. Preferably by being nowhere near them!

Minor alteration:
The best defense is not getting shot at because your enemies are unable to shoot at you.

Now you figure out how YOU want to make them unable to fire on you.


As for the Air Force One comparisons, AFO is not even particularly heavily protected by onboard defenses. It has a respectable anti-missile defense, but a craft that size (Boeing 747) could easily carry more if more space was devoted to it. Unfortunately, that extra space is dedicated to office and living space and the other neccessities of a mobile diplomatic/command center.
The main defenses of AFO are in the fighter escorts...

 

[eldiablito]

Why should the Sharlin for the Grey Council be any better than a standard Sharlin?

Why not just give it the existing Admiral special rules? Now it gets a few funky things that improves it, but the cost of the ship is now at Armageddon? Seems like an easy way to me...

 

[tneva82]

So what's the weaponry in air force one USA has these days? By this logic it would make your average fighter pale in comparison! F-16 is joke! Bring on the air force one with it's superior weaponry!

I'm not getting your Air Force comparisons. >_>

If they would beef up grey council sharin to have more impressive weaponry because "it contains worlds leaders" then by same logic air force one(carrying as it does leader of the nation) should have more impressive weaponry than reqular fighters(like grey council sharin would have more impressive weapons than reqular sharlin).

 

[greenboy]

Why not just use the isa sharlin with an admiral on board

For another real world example look at the royal yahct it has no weapons at all ( when it was in service )

 

[Greg Smith]

The Royal Yacht/Air Force One analogy isn't a particularly good one. The Sharlin is a war ship, AF1 and the RY are not combat vessels.
The analogy would hold if the President was flown in an AC130 or the Queen sailed about the Ark Royal.

We see the Grey Council Sharlin go into battle at The Line, with the council aboard. That is something the Queen or the President will never do.

 

[mikelosaurus]

The Minbari flagship was the Emfeeli, but I think this was the warrior caste ship normally commanded by Neroon, rather than the Grey Council ship, which was seperate. The latter only attended the battle of the line because the Minbari leadership wanted to capture a human to decide whether or not to exterminate them - I don't think the ship played a commanding role in the battle as such.

 

[skavendan]

The Royal Yacht/Air Force One analogy isn't a particularly good one. The Sharlin is a war ship, AF1 and the RY are not combat vessels.
The analogy would hold if the President was flown in an AC130 or the Queen sailed about the Ark Royal.

We see the Grey Council Sharlin go into battle at The Line, with the council aboard. That is something the Queen or the President will never do.

You might have a tad more respect for her if you sore her waving with one hand and her korgy in her other hand in Iraq? lol

 

[Da Boss]

Hmm true but they were close enough to have enemy fighters attack them - however ineffectively - Greg's point is that no present Head of State (to my knoweldge) does that in their standard transportation?

 

[Da Boss]

The Royal Yacht/Air Force One analogy isn't a particularly good one. The Sharlin is a war ship, AF1 and the RY are not combat vessels.
The analogy would hold if the President was flown in an AC130 or the Queen sailed about the Ark Royal.

We see the Grey Council Sharlin go into battle at The Line, with the council aboard. That is something the Queen or the President will never do.

You might have a tad more respect for her if you sore her waving with one hand and her korgy in her other hand in Iraq? lol

Really? - I am not sure she has / had any say in that matter - she is the Head of State not a policy maker - else something has changed in our nation recently :wink:
Of course her Grandson was out in a warzone recently - be interesting to know how many of the UK politicians famlies or most importantly the Cabinet had relatives out there? -
Of course this is speaking as someone who sits in a nice safe civie office job

 

[skavendan]

Yeah but it's not "war" as we look at it.

To me war is 2 nations actually having fights with ships/tanks/planes etc.....

I certainly wouldn't go in suicide bomber central just to secure oil, and all because america would rather use the rest of the worlds oil before it runs out of it's own so that we have to come up with a good alternative and then they can just buy it off who ever invented. Rant,Rant,Rant,Rant,Rant,Rant.

OK i'll shut up now just ignore m lol

 

[skavendan]

The Minbari flagship was the Emfeeli, but I think this was the warrior caste ship normally commanded by Neroon, rather than the Grey Council ship, which was seperate. The latter only attended the battle of the line because the Minbari leadership wanted to capture a human to decide whether or not to exterminate them - I don't think the ship played a commanding role in the battle as such.

Actually it was to determine to the strengh of Earths defences they used the de-dar to probe his mind and it did some thing it shouldn't have and they went bugger....