The Definitive BRAKIRI discussion thread!

[Lordpappanqui]

After reading several threads related to the various B5 races, I quite enjoyed the level and depth of discussion related to the background and fleet lists, combat effectiveness of ships, etc.

Well then, I thought the time had come to post this thread. :wink:


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I would like to begin this discussion by reviewing the effectiveness of some of the Brakiri ships as compared to others, and most notably one in particular that has struck me: the Kabrokta Assault Cruiser.

In my opinion, this ship is quite a good purchase at the Battle priority level as compared to the Avioki or Kaliva class ships.


The Kabrokta has:
> Speed 8
> Hull 6
> Troops 8
> Anti-fighter 3
> Range 20 Beam DD, 6 AD
> 40 AD with AP to Range 12 [an additional 6AD to Range 6]

The Avioki has:
> Speed 6
> Hull 6
> Troops 4
> Anti-fighter 2
> Range 18 Beam DD, 8 AD with Slow Loading
> 30 AD with AP to Range 12

[with the Kaliva sporting a Range 35, 5 AD with Super AP, Triple Damage, but with a lighter secondary compliment and same configuration as the prime Avioki]



Thus, the Kabrokta is quite a better purchase all around, with only two less dice of Beam, but a stronger compliment of secondary weapons. Am I missing something here?

- Have any other players noticed this as well?
- Any feedback from Brakiri players regarding this question?

 

[emperorpenguin]

yep I noticed, as did my Brakiri playing brother

 

[stryve]

After looking at the fleet list, the only negatives I can see are slightly less damage/crew and the the boresight. It's not much, but that can be a real pain, especially combined with Lumbering.

 

[Davesaint]

frankly for 1 battle level point, I would take 2 Haltonas 5AD of beam and 30AD of AP Pulsar each, which gets me to 10 AD of Beam and 60AD of AP. It's not lumbering. Has 3 Troops each and 2/45's with AF 1. Only hull 5, but decent size at 36/8 and 48/8 with speed 8


Dave

 

[Greg Smith]

The Avioki has 20% more damage, and a non-boresight beam. If you are happy to load up with initiative sink ships, you'll be okay.

 

[LaranosTZ]

Let's have a fun blow by blow of the Kabrokta vs the avoiki, pros and cons.


Kabrokta vs Avioki

Movement: 2" Of extra movement sounds great, but coupled with the lumbering trait means that most of the time you won't get to use it, or if you do you overshoot the bad guys. However, it does provide more versatility in maneuvering options and APTE if needed.

Point: Kabrokta

Hull: Six on both sides.

Point: Tie

Damage/Crew: Avioki has a 20% increase in damage, and small increase in crew.

Point: Avioki

Secondary Traits: The kabrokta has both a higher number of shuttles, as well as slightly superior anti-fighter ability. It also has double the troops of the Avioki, 8 vs 4.

Point: Kabrokta

Main Guns: This is more of a subjective thing, the kabrokta has 2 less AD, and is boresited, but is not slow loading. However, the Braikiri do not have a good selection of a 'bulk' initiative sync, and the tendency of the Kabrokta to overshoot the target and throw it's own gun out of alignment I think gives the edge to the avioki in this case. The Braikiri have been my primary fleet for a long long time, so I've played both ships a -lot- and speak from experience.

Point: Avioki

Secondary Guns: The Kabrokta does have signifigantly more secondary firepower then the avioki with 40 dice of AP fury at 12" and 46 dice at 6", vs the Avioki's 30.

Point: Kabrokta


Total Score?

Kabrokta 3

Avioki 2

Ooo, it was a close one friends, but the Kabrokta's obviously superior secondary firepower and secondary traits put this new contender over the top.

Now, personally speaking, I think the avioki has personality, and under the new rules you should -never- underestimate another 2 AD of beam dice against any target. That said, I sincerely believe that Mongoose has had "my ship's are better then your ships" syndrome for quite a while. That is, all the ships they design and originate are all a bit better then anything that was in the same priority level before that design was published.

 

[Target]

I think the Tashkat lacks in firepower as well, i'd put some gravatic lances on it as well & it would be fine.

 

[Greg Smith]

The Tashkat does lack in firepower. But it has 2 45degree turns (something only a handful of warships have) and gravitic shifters can play holy hell with an enemy's firepower. If you can get it work, ie get in amongst the enemy and maneuver around, while they are struggling to turn and your shifters are mucking with their big firepower, then they are great.

 

[Target]

Still a bank of Gravatic Lances wouldn't go amiss.

 

[Lord David the Denied]

I don't think a bank of Gravitic Lances would ever go amiss... :wink:

 

[H]

That said, I sincerely believe that Mongoose has had "my ship's are better then your ships" syndrome for quite a while. That is, all the ships they design and originate are all a bit better then anything that was in the same priority level before that design was published.

you may wish to look at the omega and Marathon. Personally, I believe the Omega is superior, although the missiles helped up the marathon to more respectability!

 

[Ripple]

But the Omega is a response to all the whining about it being undergunned before.

Just saying that previous to current edition there was a long standing issue with 'iconic' ships not being worth taking. Whether that was due to them being from a previous companies stat machine or due to a perception that ships from the show didn't need to be any good to get folks to buy them is open to debate.

Go look at the Bin'Tak vs the G'Vrahn...another real toss up nowdays.

Ripple

 

[Triggy]

All I can say is that most of the ship balances have been determined by the playtesters. We as a group have no such issue about making the new ships more powerful. In fact, we really tried to make the iconic ships from the show stand out (in general) - the total opposite of trying to sell the new ship of the month!

 

[Celisasu]

All I can say is that most of the ship balances have been determined by the playtesters. We as a group have no such issue about making the new ships more powerful. In fact, we really tried to make the iconic ships from the show stand out (in general) - the total opposite of trying to sell the new ship of the month!

So what did the G'Quan do the playtesters that made them nerf it? :lol:

I like the new Omega. It's solid and a viable battle level choice(well as viable as it can be in a game that favors swarms of smaller ships) without being broken.

I'm not sure on the Avioki. Maybe I just don't like the slow loading beam. I tend to favor the Kabrokta myself. The sheer number of guns it wields calls to me.

Switching Brakiri topics for a bit...what about the Cidikar and Corumai?

The Cidikar feels a bit weaker than a Poseidon(using the closest example we have in another race here) although not vastly so. You gain a very slightly tougher ship(maybe..., the Poseidon handles secondary weapons better with twice as many interceptors) and more noticably a medium range boresited beam which the Poseidon has nothing in it's arsenal to match. Secondary armaments favor the Poseidon. The Poseidon needs to get a little closer to bring all of it to bear but once it does it's secondaries are a fair bit better. The Poseidon has much better fighters and more of them to boot. Also +3 Command instead of +2 on a fleet that already has better Initiative than the Brakiri(+1 or +2 depending on the Era vs. +0).

The Corumai while having a hideously huge damage/crew track(better than the Narn even) has only Hull 5. Obviously a poor target for beams compared to something with Hull 6 but an excellent choice for just about any other weapon system which will score more hits and thus more criticals. It mounts a lot of guns but it feels a bit undergunned compared to a lot of War ships. Maybe I feel this way because the Kabrokta mounts almost as many guns on a Battle level hull. On the other hand there is something to be said for launching 12AD of DD beams in one turn even if the next turn you don't get to shoot at all. Most other races only get 6 to 8AD although they're also usually not slow loading and some of their beams have other traits such as Precise(Minbari, ISA) or Triple Damage(Narn, EA). I honestly haven't tested it out much as I have an instictive desire for Hull 6 at high priorities meaning I tend to grab Kalivas and Kabroktas. I'm not really sure what to compare the Corumai to. Maybe the Bin'Tak? They seem to fill similar fleet roles although there are some definate differences in the tactics of each.


Both are very sexy ships though. Not as beautiful as a G'Quan but hey, that'd take a miracle.

 

[Lone Gunman]

To keep it short, always take a few Haliks and the Haltonas. They are much better than any battle+ choice you can take. 5 Ad beam per ships and the same Gravitic Bolt firepower like an Avioki make the Haltona the default choice (again the swarm-of-small-ships-syndrom). Neither Avioki nor Cabrotca nor Corumai.

 

[Triggy]

The Haltona is kind of like the Hyperion - good guns but very fragile. If you look at it the wrong way then it blows up! The Avioki/Kaliva and the Kabrokta add survivability, which is very nice in larger games but not so necessary in smaller games.

Other good Raid PL choices include the Brokados (great carrier) and the Batrado if you want a ship that you can use as an initiative sink and the enemy just can't shift!

 

[Iain McGhee]

The Corumai's not a bad choice even with hull 5. It's Interceptors/3 makes up for that a bit, more so with the Defensive Fire SA when you're closing with the enemy (and can stop missiles and railguns better than another point of hull, at least the few times I've used it). The sheer size of the model is pretty intimidating too . I prefer the Halik to the Haltona. Once you get in amongst the enemy all those twin-linked AP guns really hurt. The Escort ability is very useful too (having one escort a couple of Riva wings can be pretty effective). The Ikorta is another good ship, with a Precise main weapon and lots of marines.

 

[thehod]

How is the Brikorta working for people? I find a good mix of Ikorta and Brikorta works nicely in a Brakiri fleet along with a Kabroka or Avioki.

 

[MustEatBrains]

Get an opponent of whom you know that he likes fungames (read: who´s not minimaxing at 150% capacity), play a War 5 game, and play a fleet of 3 Aviokis, 3 Kalivas, 2 Kabroktas and 1 Takata. You´ll love it, truts me! Really, give it a try!

 

[Iain McGhee]

Not a bad ship at all, but with the Brokados going down to Raid I've not been using it. Might be a good pick for lower-PL convoy raids.