Telepathy save DCs too high?

[chulbert]

As stated earlier, the telepath is a centauri, and hence not a member of Psi Corps, nor is he under the jurisdiction of Earth to undergo any of their annual analysis (if they even know he's a teep, which we haven't decided yet).

You're right. I didn't pay close enough attention.

If you think I'm not capitalizing on the weaknesses (and it's quite possible given that I've run only one full session with a PC teep in it), what do you recommend I do (keeping in line with the events of Ragged Edge as much as possible)?

I don't have my book with me (here at work, hehe) so I can't comment on the class's specific weaknesses but a high-profile telepath that would rather fry you than look at you will gain some notoriety. There's always the chance someone, perhaps another telepath, noticed what they were doing. As a result...

- Word of their actions reaches their superiors who in turn reprimand them.

- Their opposition to hires its own powerful telepath or targets your telepath directly. Have a villain lace their drink with suppressive drugs that inhibit their telepathy before a possible confrontation. "You thought we couldn't reach you. You were wrong."

- Psi Corps dispatches an officer to their location to investigate "telepathic indiscretion" by one or more unknown telepaths. Centauri or not, once Bester found your telepath, I doubt he'd have any issue sending a clear, strong message to them. "Your indiscretions have required me to travel to Babylon 5 and I very much dislike coming to Babylon 5..."

- People with whom they need to deal flat-out, unconditionally refuse to cooperate due bad history with telpaths - The Ivanova Reason. Make sure those people have a means back up their position. "Sorry, I do not deal with telepaths."

It's all about the consequences.

 

[James McMurray]

Each of the races manages their telepaths in similar manners though - the Centauri Guild of Telepaths (I believe) whilst slightly more "relaxed" operate under the same social pressures as the Earth Alliance - The telepaths have to be seen to be under control.

Source? Is there a book that details the Centauri telepath guild?

But in general, reward good roleplaying with extra XP, and penalise bad roleplaying

Yep, I do that. I also reward intelligent plans and penalize brute force thinking (except when it is the intelligent plan).

a high-profile telepath that would rather fry you than look at you will gain some notoriety.

True, but that's not him. There are so many more things you can do than kill someone that will screw them over or win you the battle. He used Pain only when being attacked himself, and tracking down a known murderer. It looks like his standard M.O. will be to use the reverie version of Daze.

There's always the chance someone, perhaps another telepath, noticed what they were doing. As a result...

How? I didn't think telepaths typically wander around looking through walls with detect telepathy running. What am I missing?

- People with whom they need to deal flat-out, unconditionally refuse to cooperate due bad history with telpaths - The Ivanova Reason. Make sure those people have a means back up their position. "Sorry, I do not deal with telepaths."
[/quote

The Ragged Edge lays out most situations, although it's a given that my players will wander off the beaten path. However, The Ivanova Reason seems to punish the telepath for being a telepath. I'd much rather change a rule so that isn't necessary.

I like the other ideas though. Thanks!

 

[chulbert]

How? I didn't think telepaths typically wander around looking through walls with detect telepathy running. What am I missing?

You're not missing anything, you're just not considering just how easily word of mouth can spread or how easily someone might become suspicious. Someone doesn't always need Detect Telepathy to recognize a telepath using their abilities. Perhaps a nearby telepath hears a commotion and goes to investigate, at which point they see an altercation in which someone is standing there, dazed, while being stared down by another character. That'd be enough to at least raise MY suspicion.

The Ragged Edge lays out most situations, although it's a given that my players will wander off the beaten path. However, The Ivanova Reason seems to punish the telepath for being a telepath. I'd much rather change a rule so that isn't necessary.

Ultimately we are punishing your character, although I prefer to use the term balance. What we are deliberating is the method. Changing the rules or imposing XP penalties are meta-game methods of balance and I choose to avoid them when possible. Story-driven, in-game methods are, in my humble opinion, a far more rewarding and dramatic method for both you and your players.

If you had a marksmen character with a preference to shoot first and ask questions later, would you make PPGs do less damage?

 

[James McMurray]

I wouldn't have to make PPGs do less damage, because you can't instantly neutralize 3 5th level guys with one hard to fail roll with a PPG at first level. So far there have been very few "important" NPCs that would die to a single non-critical hit PPG shot. Every single NPC can die (or worse) to a failed save.

I'm also not just concerned about in combat. There's no need for stealth skills when reverie can't be saved against*. There's no need to interrogation skills when surface and deep scans can't be saved against*. Apart from interacting with technology there's very little that a telepath can't do at least as easily as others.

* "can't" is an overstatement, but the odds are pretty low, especially when you can just keep trying over and over.

 

[Chernobyl]

Perhaps the telepathy powers should be gained through level advancement? Save the really good powers for higher level characters.
Or, creat a proficiency, and really raise the DC to attempt use if not proficient in the telepathy power.

Chern

 

[James McMurray]

Is that closer to how 1e worked? Maybe I'll reread the first edition rules and go back to them if they're not horrible.

 

[frobisher]

Source? Is there a book that details the Centauri telepath guild?

There's some material in the Centauri Fact Book (which is 1st edition so tread carefully) but it isn't as fully fleshed out as Psi Corps. You can mostly wing it though using Psi Corps as a model.

 

[B_Steele]

I have a wide-scale Telepaths book on the dockett for next year, so prepare to see a number of things added to help both you and your player...

...but of course, I can't talk about any of that yet.

-Bry

 

[Chernobyl]

Tease!

 

[B_Steele]

Tease!

Yeah, probably. I just didn't want James to think that we were not listening to his plight.

I plan on making sure that the "uber-teep" situation (that I myself had to deal with in my own home game as well) gets looked at. While I discourage any dumbing down of powers or adding of easier DCs, I have a number of ideas in the mind-bucket to help keep wanton Teeps in check.

But since nothing is on paper yet or even close to official, I don't want to talk about the specifics.

-Bry

 

[R Arceneaux]

Getting back to the original post....

"The save DC of 5 + P-Rating + Charisma mod + level is giving our first level telepaths save DCs of 21. Does that seem a bit high? So far only person has passed a save, and they rolled a nat 20 (needing an 1.

Has anyone house ruled it to drop the DC? We've thought about removing the level portion, or perhaps dropping the base +5.

Back to top "

Equality is not the charistic of a high P and high level telepath. Dominance at will is the charistic of the high P and High level telepath. They are powerful dangerous people if they are your enemies.

But back to the original post. The great equalizer is the skill check. No one mentioned the skill check.

My character is also a telepath, 10 P, max ranks at first level and to be quite honest I consider her skill check terrible. I could make a P 12 character and that would not help me make a skill check acceptable to the abilities of a P 12. There is a very good chance that at the first 3 or 4 levels that I would flat out fail to meet the DC requirements regardless of P level even on a simple scan. Hence there is balance in the pure fact that my failure to even make a skill check gives an auto bonus to the defense of the person who is the target.

And I will not even go into environmental penalties that can be added on to the DC check.

As to advancing in P levels which someone mentioned that would be wonderful except for the fact that the plot line of all the Bab 5 productions was that P ratings were fixed at birth and could be boosted permanently only by Genetic Engineering (Vorlons).

However I on a personal level would see no problem IF the ability to perform a specific task could be upped provided by the ability bonus if a character were to have actually used it frequently. Said bonus P would be based on the application of the +1 ability point being applied to said Psy task rather than applied to an ability. This process would only reflect the telepaths ability to perform a task that they had done many many times over with greater ease--the more you do something the easier it becomes. And a +1 to a single skill at a time would not make a telepath immortal--just skilled at certain things.

In re to telepaths being unbalanced remember what happened to one Vorlon enhanced Chick when she tried to take on all the security on Bab 5 at once in the final season. Sure she could rip a Psy Cop appart BUT one PPG applied to her head from behind made her back down pretty quick.

No character is invunerable. Even the Vorlon was killed by resourceful humans using the proper bait. And we all know how baddddd those vorlons were.

RA

 

[frobisher]

In re to telepaths being unbalanced remember what happened to one Vorlon enhanced Chick when she tried to take on all the security on Bab 5 at once in the final season. Sure she could rip a Psy Cop appart BUT one PPG applied to her head from behind made her back down pretty quick.

By someone she couldn't psionically dominate it should be noted...

No character is invunerable. Even the Vorlon was killed by resourceful humans using the proper bait. And we all know how baddddd those vorlons were.

Using another part of a Vorlon boosted by the lifeforce of Sheriden with help from the original First One. The Humans were the bait there...

 

[James McMurray]

The skill check isn't that big of a deal. He's got a better chance of succeeding on Daze then the soldier has on hitting AC 15, and it just takes one success for him His chances of succeeding on pain are the same as the soldier with a gun (needs a 9+).

But every fight in Cold Equations is against at most a couple of opponents. It's like they wanted telepaths to shine. That's the big reason we're waiting until we've run through the first part of Ragged Edge before making any decisions. It has at least one chance to fight multiple foe, more than can reasonably be expected to succumb to Pain or Daze all at once, leaving behind one guy with a gun to drop the telepath and free his friends.

 

[R Arceneaux]

By someone she couldn't psionically dominate it should be noted...


Using another part of a Vorlon boosted by the lifeforce of Sheriden with help from the original First One. The Humans were the bait there

A reply but first the last poster. IF a character wanted to beef up his defense value all he has to do is put high value in his attribute (Dex or whatever) to get a max plus rating and take a skill that enables the defense to add on or two. If one is a grunt should not the premium be placed in defense. Initiativ is good but defense keeps you alive.

But back to the good lookin chic telepath, Lyta. Well that is not quite true is it. She could have easily dominted the good Captain if she truly wanted to. Remember in the last episode when she looked at the light in her cell and without even trying smashed it. Naa she was capable of killing if she wanted to.

OHHH by the way, mindshreader is one of the major abilities that I will have my character work on. While only P 10 she can be a member of the bloodhound group working as posing as a liason--hopeing to convice the game master to let me apply the attribute +1 to a telepath skill rather than an attribute/guess which one ? As member of a bloodhound group a touch of cruelty would be as natural as the Sun Dawning.

May yall PPG always have a full charge.

RA

 

[frobisher]

But back to the good lookin chic telepath, Lyta. Well that is not quite true is it. She could have easily dominted the good Captain if she truly wanted to. Remember in the last episode when she looked at the light in her cell and without even trying smashed it. Naa she was capable of killing if she wanted to.

Erm the whole point of that scene was that she couldn't effect Sherden because he was "touched by a Vorlon" (oh err missus). The very fact that he managed to sneak up on her, despite her dominance of the surrounding minds etc - she didn't even know he was there.

 

[lastbesthope]

Erm the whole point of that scene was that she couldn't effect Sherden because he was "touched by a Vorlon" (oh err missus).

[Madonna]
"Like a Vorlon, touched for the very first time!
[/Madonna]

:lol:

LBH

 

[Chernobyl]

that was a great scene, I love the PPG coming in frame from off camera...!

Chern

 

[frobisher]

Groan...

Though that could be another one for the hits from Babylon 5. A few years back (7 or 8...) the Edinburgh Alliance did a CD of song covers with a B5 theme...

Most memorable was...

ARMY OF LIGHT

Lyric by Paul Presley (prezzer@cix.compulink.co.uk); 
additional lyrics by Cad Delworth (caddelworth@cix.compulink.co.uk).
Lyrics ©Copyright 1996 by Paul Presley and Cad Delworth; all rights 
reserved.

to the tune of 'Y.M.C.A.' written by Morali, Belolo, and Willis,
©Leesong Copyright Service Ltd. 

Young race, there's a war on the way.
I said, young race, this time you're in the fray.
I said, young race, we know more than we're say,
But please don't-let-that-get-you-down.
Young race, last time our ass got kicked.
I said, young race, so we're mightily pissed!
I said, young race! That's why your minds got messed:
So we'd steer-you-to-the-show-down.

(CHORUS)
It's fun to be in the AR-MY-OF-LIGHT!
It's fun to be in the AR-MY-OF-LI-IGHT!
When those Shadows arrive, you'll fight hard to survive,
And you'll need our tech-nol-ogy,
It's fun to be in the AR-MY-OF-LIGHT!
It's fun to be in the AR-MY-OF-LI-IGHT!
We can't do it alone, we're the slings, you're the stones,
We'll survive, you'll die (pro-ba-bleeee).

Young race, they've been out in the cold.
I said, young race, now the Shadows are bold!
I said, young race, welcome in to the fold
Of the gang-that's-go-nna-meet-them.
Young race, they're amassing a force!
I said, young race, it's no time for a pause!
I said, young race, now you're part of our cause,
We can help-you-all-to-beat-them.

REPEAT CHORUS, substituting:
Now we've got the White Star, and Miss I-van-o-va,
And John She-ri-dan: we can't lose!
...
We'll have plenty of fun! Though we don't have the guns,
We can scare 'em down to their shoes!

No race does it all on their own.
I said, young race, great to have you along!
I said, young race, even though we're Vorlon,
We can't kill-these-Sha-dows-so-lo.
That's why we enlisted your help,
And said: 'Young race! Do some Good for yourself!'
We hope your race won't get left on the shelf
When those beams-and-bombs-all-fly-low.

REPEAT CHORUS, substituting:
We were here once before, in the last Shadow War:
That was only an interlude!
...
Now with you on our side, We can do the job right!
We can finish them off for Good!

HALF CHORUS CODA:
It's fun to be in the AR-MY-OF-LIGHT!
It's fun to be in the AR-MY-OF-LI-IGHT!
Young race, young race, are you listening to me?
Young race, young race, what do you want to be?

 

[B_Steele]

"John, show us on the doll where the Vorlon touched you..."

Sorry, I couldn't resist. 8)

-Bry

 

[frobisher]

You're a sick man Bryan

That's a Helipcopter (ROFL ROFL ROFL etc...).