Spinal Neutron Laser seriously broken

[tytalan]

@MongooseMatt could you look at this

So if you look at spinal mounts the chart looks like this. Spinal Mount Weapons
Weapon TL Range Base Size Power Damage Cost Max. Size Traits
Mass Driver 10 Short 5,000 tons +250 +4D +MCr1500 100,000 tons AP 15, Orbital Bombardment
Meson 12 Long 7,500 tons +1,000 +6D +MCr2000 75,000 tons AP ∞, Radiation
Particle 11 Very Long 3,500 tons +1,000 +8D +MCr1000 28,000 tons Radiation
But the neutron Laser which seems to be the next level spinal weapon (in MegaTraveller it was the disintegrator )stats are this
Neutron Laser 16 Very Long 20,000 tons +6,000 +8D +MCr25000 No maximum —
Now the super laser is definitely for another setting but the Neutron Laser seems like it fits Charted Space but it’s broken in every way. 20000dt and 6000 energy for a more expensive Particle without radiation. Theres literally in improvement. Does anyone else think its stats are a mistake especially since they are identical to the super laser. Seems like the Neutron Laser should be more like this

Neuton Laser 16 Very Long 2,000 Tons +600 power +8D +MCr2500 No Maximum. This seems to me to be 2hat the stats should be

 

[Endie]

I know you do love your dramatic clickbait titles for edge cases that you don't agree with, but could you at least post them in the feedback sub-forum, and maybe in a single thread?

 

[WHULorigan]

Now the super laser is definitely for another setting but the Neutron Laser seems like it fits Charted Space but it’s broken in every way.

The Neutron Laser is NOT a Charted Space weapon; It is from Warhammer 40k. It's text description is pure technobabble.

 

[Condottiere]

It's one of the weapon systems I couldn't figure out, and knew being beyond technological level fifteen, I could afford to ignore.

 

[tytalan]

The Neutron Laser is NOT a Charted Space weapon; It is from Warhammer 40k. It's text description is pure technobabble.

That I didn’t know. Though the ideal of a neutron laser is in a lot of games. We need a TL 16 or 17 spinal mounts since the disintegrator got bumped up to TL 20. As for being technobabble that section of HG is a mixed bag it’s got things that are definitely Traveller Charted Space and things for other settings but most of them are at least somewhat balanced for HG if nothing else.

 

[WHULorigan]

That I didn’t know. Though the ideal of a neutron laser is in a lot of games. We need a TL 16 or 17 spinal mounts since the disintegrator got bumped up to TL 20. As for being technobabble that section of HG is a mixed bag it’s got things that are definitely Traveller Charted Space and things for other settings but most of them are at least somewhat balanced for HG if nothing else.

Things that belong to the Charted Space setting normally have at least some basis or an attempt to relate them to real science or engineering in terms of how they operate; not always hard science (and sometimes hard science as it was perceived to likely be in the Golden Age of Sci-Fi in the 1950s - 1970s), but at least some sense of plausibility scientifically from the description.

I do not know what a laser being "stabilized by a neutron flow" is supposed to mean, or why/how the laser is supposedly unstable in the first place that needs stabilization. Or what a "neutron flow" is supposed to do.

 

[Endie]

Or what a "neutron flow" is supposed to do.

Stabilise lasers, obviously.

 

[Sigtrygg]

And if you reverse the polarity of the neutron flow...

 

[WHULorigan]

And if you reverse the polarity of the neutron flow...

Don't even go there . . .

 

[Arkathan]

I can understand a ground side laser stabilized particle accelerator. In atmosphere, a laser can ionize the air along a path and keep the particle beam from travelling like a lightning bolt.
A neutron beam is just a space based particle accelerator. An ionized beam in space is going to repel itself (output like an aerosol can) and just be an ion propulsion unit for the firing platform.
A neutron beam in atmosphere will scatter as a function of density of the local air.
I cannot understand how a laser is supposed to run herd on millions of neutrons going at a significant fraction of c. Or rather, why you need the lasers in space when the neutrons are going to go straight until they hit something.

 

[Condottiere]

Very old rules say energy weapon system dispersion within an atmosphere is range divided by a thousand.

How that works with spinal mount scale, donno.

 

[AndrewW]

Don't even go there . . .

Just don't cross the streams.

 

[tytalan]

Maybe it’s a weaponization of this “ real-world systems using intense lasers to generate neutron beams for science (like fusion research, materials analysis, fissile detection) ”

 

[phavoc]

I can understand a ground side laser stabilized particle accelerator. In atmosphere, a laser can ionize the air along a path and keep the particle beam from travelling like a lightning bolt.
A neutron beam is just a space based particle accelerator. An ionized beam in space is going to repel itself (output like an aerosol can) and just be an ion propulsion unit for the firing platform.
A neutron beam in atmosphere will scatter as a function of density of the local air.
I cannot understand how a laser is supposed to run herd on millions of neutrons going at a significant fraction of c. Or rather, why you need the lasers in space when the neutrons are going to go straight until they hit something.

It could be that your ground-based neutron weapon follows the path of another energy weapon that essentially clears the majority of the air molecules out of its path. That's been proposed for some energy weapons today - one fires first that is of no threat, it's just clearing the way for the other one to fire and follow the same path of (now) least resistance.

I'm sure there's some additional physics that may have to be worked out on such a thing.

 

[Studio Cat]

The Neutron Laser is NOT a Charted Space weapon; It is from Warhammer 40k. It's text description is pure technobabble.

I thought that it was a Mimbari weapon from Babylon 5.

 

[WHULorigan]

It could be that your ground-based neutron weapon follows the path of another energy weapon that essentially clears the majority of the air molecules out of its path. That's been proposed for some energy weapons today - one fires first that is of no threat, it's just clearing the way for the other one to fire and follow the same path of (now) least resistance.

I'm sure there's some additional physics that may have to be worked out on such a thing.

But there is nothing to "clear out" for a space-based weapon. And the text is implying it is a laser, not a neutron weapon. The neutrons are doing the "stabilizing".

And in atmosphere, it is generally a laser that is used to clear/create a low resistance path for a charged particle beam.

 

[Sigtrygg]

Maybe it’s a weaponization of this “ real-world systems using intense lasers to generate neutron beams for science (like fusion research, materials analysis, fissile detection) ”

That is handwavium of unobtanic proportions.

 

[WHULorigan]

Maybe it’s a weaponization of this “ real-world systems using intense lasers to generate neutron beams for science (like fusion research, materials analysis, fissile detection) ”

That is handwavium of unobtanic proportions.

It is also not an explanation of the wording of the item description fluff. The "Neutron Laser" is a type of Laser, apparently, not a Neutron Beam.

 

[Sigtrygg]

The only way I can make "neutron laser" make sense...

energy is used to excite the quarks that make up the neutron, as they transition between energy levels they generate extremely high energy/v.high frequency gamma rays

or

there could be an electromagnetic radiation analogue generated by the colour charge, in the same way a moving electric charge can generate an electromagnetic wave then the "colour charge" of the quarks could generate a vibration in an as yet unidentified quantim field*, or if you want to stick with "known physics" it could excite the gluon field or the fields associated with the weak force bosons. As these fields lose energy they generate the gamma rays of the "neutron" laser...

*note that it is likely that gluons are actually this analogue, it all depends on which QFT book you read...

 

[tytalan]

That is handwavium of unobtanic proportions.

So is Jump drive, Maneuver Drive and a half dozen other things in Traveller it’s sci-fi not science fact. I’m not even sure you could quantify Traveller as Hard Scifi. If you’re so concerned with the science of the game setting I suggest you limit yourself to 2300 it’s at least closer to Hard scifi.