Spaceship Armor

[Drakxii]

I was reading my rulebook as I am getting prepared for my first Traveller game and I am confused on how spaceship armor works.

On page 150 it talks about how the effect of damage are determined, but what I don't get is what damage number am I using?

I see three different options:
Each weapon
Each Turret
All the damage done in a turn.

Right now I am guessing it's each turret or the last option as the first option makes armor overpowered.

 

[cjs65]

Hopefully without hijacking the thread, I'd like to extend the question to hit rolls. If you have multiple (same type) weapons in a turret, do you roll to hit for each weapon or once for all weapons?

The book doesn't seem clear on the whole space combat hit/damage thing... Unless I've missed something vital in my four re-reads..?

 

[Old timer]

The way i use damage and hit rolls in space combat is that you roll to hit with each turret, and them roll damage for each weapon in the turret if you hit. Damage is rolled for each weapon in the turret, and armour deducted from each damage roll.

 

[The Chef]

ok example

a tripple beam laser turret

i'd roll

3x 2d6 assigning pairs to hit modified by range, circumstance, skill etc.

any hits roll damage for each hit seperately, deduct the value for armour.

Apply damage using the damage table and then roll for location.

Space combat can be drawn out so make sure you have plenty of time, have an idea of what you want to achieve out of it and have fun...

of course this is my take on the rules..

Chef

 

[drnuncheon]

To-hit and damage are resolved individually per weapon. Turrets are just a convenient way to be able to mount more and/or multiple types of weapons in a smaller space.

 

[cjs65]

So far three replies and three different methods...

I (and I'm guessing Drakxii too) was rather hoping for something official. A reference to a rule/errata/something..?

I suspect reply #3 is correct (ie. as intended by the designer even if not actually in print anywhere) even though I don't like it.

 

[Infojunky]

So far three replies and three different methods...

I (and I'm guessing Drakxii too) was rather hoping for something official. A reference to a rule/errata/something..?

Heh... Your Hitting on one of the great ambiguities of the TMB.

The Clearest answer is roll per weapon. To-Hit and for Damage.

But the wording and indications of other sections lead to lots of questions.

And for the record the writers haven't said one way or another...

 

[apoc527]

I find that a good solution is to add Effect to damage even on Starship attack rolls. This allows beam lasers to do damage against armor, but still makes armor the best defense against low level weapons.

 

[BP]

I find that a good solution is to add Effect to damage even on Starship attack rolls. This allows beam lasers to do damage against armor, but still makes armor the best defense against low level weapons.

That's an interesting mod!

 

[Rikki Tikki Traveller]

My interpretation has been that if the weapons in a turret are all of the same type, the gunner can choose to either roll ONCE for all weapons (all hit or all miss) and combine the damage into one roll.

OR the gunner can choose to roll each weapon as a separate attack.

The first option gives the gunner a better chance to do significant damage, but at the risk of only one to-hit roll. The second option gives the gunner a much better chance to do SOME damage.

Thus the ambiguity in the rule becomes a roleplaying option for the characters.

 

[cjs65]

My interpretation has been that if the weapons in a turret are all of the same type, the gunner can choose to either roll ONCE for all weapons (all hit or all miss) and combine the damage into one roll.

OR the gunner can choose to roll each weapon as a separate attack.

The first option gives the gunner a better chance to do significant damage, but at the risk of only one to-hit roll. The second option gives the gunner a much better chance to do SOME damage.

Thus the ambiguity in the rule becomes a roleplaying option for the characters.

That's about how I was going to play it, though still applying armour to each weapon and also adding effect to the damage, as mentioned previously. I'm an old Starfleet Battles player, and it's a similar idea to taking individual shots vs. a 'narrow salvo' where you have one attack roll for all weapons of the same type.

 

[apoc527]

I think I will allow one attack roll with a turret and add effect to each damage roll, but still roll damage vs armor separately by weapon. Otherwise a triple particle beam turret is just as powerful as a 100 ton heavy bay particle beam!

 

[Infojunky]

So Guys, is he forth or fifth time we have had this discussion in the last year?

I'm not saying anything IMHO the entire section need to be rewritten. But this is in line with the core source, everything is just a draft. Not saying this is a bad thing, just a thing.

 

[BP]

Overall, I have little experience with the Space Combat system - but at least it seems fairly playable.

* I have no problem with the idea that armour can make ships virtually impervious to certain types of weapons (like a bullet against modern tank armour) - though a mechnanic to handle exceptions would be nice - like Exceptional Effect always providing at least one 'hit' (per task check - not weapon) similiar to personal combat.

* If taken literally - the text '...effects of damage are determined by subtracting the ship's armour from the damage rolled by the weapon, then consulting the damage table...' would indicate that weapon damage is handled seperately per weapon. So damage from turret weapons would each be handled seperately.

* Addressing the hit task check - it is covered by - 'A gunner may fire any or all of the weapons in his turret or bay but each turret or bay may only fire once per round.'. This also means that they may all be blocked/dodged during phase - not that the damage is cummulative.

So, 3 pulse lasers do 3x1d6 damage, not 3d6 damage. Consider - a triple turret with 3 Particle Beams would do 9d6 if combined for 1 ton and MCr 9 - versus - a Particle Beam Bay weapon doing only 6d6 for 50 tons and MCr 20! Likewise, a 1 ton MCr 4 Triple Beam Laser would do 6d6 which is better than a 50 ton MCr 8 Bay Fusion Gun. This would not make sense from a balance point of view (as apoc527 pointed out).

The idea of adding Effect to Damage for Space Combat is interesting - since it adds more impact (no pun intended) for skill DMs and the like. In a turret this would apply to all weapons - which seems reasonable. I would use the minimum 'hit' I mentioned above when appropriate.

It would also be nice - especially given the long 6 minute rounds - to have a game mechanic which allows one to choose what location is hit. Again, Exceptional Effect could allow picking External Damage location (if not already used to provide minimum one 'hit' or added damage). This would apply (same location) for all weapons in a turret.

Hope that answers the questions seen here: ships armour can be very effective (by design); one success roll per turret (not weapon) with individual damage by weapon. The rules are terse - but seem to indicate this.

I like apoc527's effect mod - and would extend it to include either minimum one 'hit' or option for location selection on Exceptional Effect - but have not play tested any of these variants.

 

[cjs65]

So, 3 pulse lasers do 3x1d6 damage, not 3d6 damage. Consider - a triple turret with 3 Particle Beams would do 9d6 if combined for 1 ton and MCr 9 - versus - a Particle Beam Bay weapon doing only 6d6 for 50 tons and MCr 20! Likewise, a 1 ton MCr 4 Triple Beam Laser would do 6d6 which is better than a 50 ton MCr 8 Bay Fusion Gun. This would not make sense from a balance point of view (as apoc527 pointed out).

Nothing to do with the subject under discussion, as such, but High Guard p47 corrects laser damage so beam lasers do 1d6 and pulse lasers 2d6 (with a -2 dm to hit).

 

[BP]

So, 3 pulse lasers do 3x1d6 damage, not 3d6 damage. Consider - a triple turret with 3 Particle Beams would do 9d6 if combined for 1 ton and MCr 9 - versus - a Particle Beam Bay weapon doing only 6d6 for 50 tons and MCr 20! Likewise, a 1 ton MCr 4 Triple Beam Laser would do 6d6 which is better than a 50 ton MCr 8 Bay Fusion Gun. This would not make sense from a balance point of view (as apoc527 pointed out).

Nothing to do with the subject under discussion, as such, but High Guard p47 corrects laser damage so beam lasers do 1d6 and pulse lasers 2d6 (with a -2 dm to hit).

Thanks cjs65 - I left any reference to HG out since the Original Poster was going by the Core Rules, but it does relate directly to the OPs questions - since it makes pulse lasers more 'powerful' against armour...

It also makes my Beam Laser example less clearcut - but the Triple Turrent Particle Beam vs. Bay still clearly shows why combined turret weapons damage would be unbalanced (50% more damge at < 1/2 cost and 1/50th tonnage and thats ignoring the 3x crew hit).

[P.S. - for those without High Guard, the rules (SRD) are freely available in the Traveller Developer Pack here. I believe it contains these updates.]