Some changes to make Conan even grittier...

[thulsa]

Without someone saying that it's not intended, I gota believe that "treat exactly" means just that - exactly. It's powerful in a major way, but in another way it let's you know what to expect from almost any Zingaran you come accross - a high probabiility of getting a blade in your spleen! (lol)

I think you're reading the "letter of the law", and not the "intent of the law" here. Even a single extra sneak attack die makes a Zingaran thief (or soldier, for that matter) more dangerous than the average thief (or soldier, etc.).

Anyway, this would be a good question to pose to the Rulesmasters -- if Mongoose hadn't removed that forum. (Now why in the name of Crom did they do that?) I think they have an email address where you can send questions, though -- anyone want to sort this out by sending them an email?

- thulsa

 

[Sutek]

Yeah, I wrote them another set of rules questions I had after creating some of the errata stuff I'm working on; stuff that just didn't add up. That was last month some time and I still haven't heard back.

Maybe I'll shoot an e-mail to Vincent directly.

I can see both sides of the argument here. Exactly as class feature means one thing, full stop, but only referencing the sneak attack rules on pg 177 means something totally different.

My interpretation was that Zingarans are equal to a thief at sneak attacks and so start at first level just like a thief, then follow the class feature for thieves and the 177 rules.

That's a lot of dice though. However, in lieu of anything else definitive, I don't want to assume "intent of the rules" over "letter of the rules".

Now, the other way around it is by comparing all Zingaran character currently published and sift through for errors and consistancies in the sneak atack portion. Since twohave been mentioned, but inconsistancies exist, maybe even the design guys couldn't keep it straight. I'll look through all my books (ROKs - Black Kingdoms) here now and see what else I can find.

 

[Oly]

I don't want to assume "intent of the rules" over "letter of the rules".

Well as well as feeling that I've got the intent right I also see the letter of the rules as telling that I need to look at page 177 to find out all I need to know about the Zingarans racial ability. It doesn't tell me to look at the thief class on page 63 so I don't think that I need to do it.

Now, the other way around it is by comparing all Zingaran character currently published and sift through for errors and consistancies in the sneak atack portion. Since twohave been mentioned, but inconsistancies exist, maybe even the design guys couldn't keep it straight. I'll look through all my books (ROKs - Black Kingdoms) here now and see what else I can find.

I've checked RoKs and TotBKs and couldn't find any Zingarans, the only one I could find was in The Free Companies. That one definitely does have inconsistencies, it appears to have done some something completely different. However he's a level 15 character and he definitely doesn't have the many extra dice that your interpretation would give him.

I'm not sure if the other character, Black Zarono from the Pirate Isles book, has any problems but Trodax has said that the sneak attack dice are calculated correctly according to my interpretation of the rules.

Given the issues that the official stats do have though I'd personally like to see some more of them if they can be found.

Oly

 

[Sutek]

Well, I'll aquiecse, but I still feel that stating "exactly like the thief class feature" is, indeed, a reference to that feature, regardless of the absence of page number.

If I were to reach a compromise (whichb never happens on discussion boards anyway - lol) I'd suggest that it means that Zingarans use the rules for sneak attacks found on page 177 and they also are considered to have the thief class feature sneak attack style. Only a +1d6 sneak attack bonus, but if they choose a single weapon to apply a style to, then they can have that +1d8 instead.

I mean, it's got to say "exactly like" for some reason...

 

[Trodax]

Given the issues that the official stats do have though I'd personally like to see some more of them if they can be found.

Actually, there is one more example in Pirate Isles. Count Valenso is a 12th level Zingaran Noble, and he has +1d6 sneak attack. Incrementing sneak damage would have him at +6d6.

I mean, it's got to say "exactly like" for some reason...

I agree that the "exactly like a Thief"-thing is unnecessary, just referring to page 177 would have been better.
One hypothesis for why this is so could be that, in D&D 3.5, there is no section on sneak attack in the combat chapter. Therefore, all references to sneak attack are to the Rogue class description. Perhaps this is a carry-over from that?

 

[Sutek]

Yeah...could be: replace all "Rogue" for "thief".

 

[Yogah of Yag]

Grittier play sounds excellent!
Another idea for review could be "DOOM POINTS", a proposed antithesis of FATE PTS.

• Doom Points (DP)
function like negative Fate Points (FP), adding a positive modifier to hostile attacks, and/or negative modifier to a PC's ATT, DV, SAV, &c.

Example, from Milius' "Conan the Barbarian":
When Valeria takes on the spirits who wish to make off with Conan's soul, she has decided to pay the heavy price the gods demand. Therefore she acquires the burden of Doom Points. Alternately, she transfers any Fate Points to Conan to aid him in his survival, while simultaneously getting Doom Points herself which ultimately spell out her demise when Thulsa Doom's vile serpent-arrow finds her back.

and also, perhaps...

• Mighty Burst of Strength

Once per day (or perhaps no more than a few times per day) the subject may add 2 times the Strength modifier (STRmod) to a damage roll for a melee attack instead of the normal 1.5 (1 1/2) times the STRmod.

Resultant Penalty

For the next five attack rounds, the character must take a -2 STRmod penalty to any damage inflicted (minimum STRmod +0).

Example:

Heregrimm the Berserker (Bar 5/Sol 5; Str 18) is hewing into a sinister Arch-Mage from the Acheronian Crypts of Doom. Heregrimm is using a warsword in two-handed fashion, thus normally the damage would be

warsword 1d12+6, crit 19-20/x2, AP 3

but here elects to use Mighty Burst of Strength, which the GM will allow but once in the adventure session, so the damage is instead

warsword 1d12+8, &c., &c.

If Heregrimm gets lucky and scores a successful critical hit against the foul scholar, then the damage would be

warsword 2d12+16.

----------------
This is my very first posting, so bear with me, by Crom!

Yogah of Yag

 

[Yogah of Yag]

Oops. That should be STR 18!

 

[Sutek]

Just edit and put a space after the 8. Then instead of (18) you get (18 ).

Burst of Strength ought to require that the user also be wielding a weapon 2-handed. This way, someone using a hone handed sword normally wouldn't be capable of it - he'd have to grab it two handed. I'll warn you though, messing with STR bonus can be a little too deadly. I'd suggest the following:

New Feat: Mighty Swing
The weilder of a two handed weapon (or someone using a one-handed weapon with two hands) may make a mighty swing with all thier might to hew opponents that normally might be more difficult to damage or in an effort to finish off thier foe in a final, single blow.

Prerequisites: STR13+, Power Attack, Cleave, wielding a weapon with both hands
Benefit: As a full round action, the Strength of the character is increased by his CON bonus for a single attack, after which he must make a FORT save at a DC equal to the damage he deals or be considered fatigued (-2 penalty to STR and DEX and cannot charge or run) until he rests (takes no actions other than to stand or sit, not even using Dodge or Parry Defense) for one round. A character may use Mighty Swing a number of times per day equal to his STR bonus but only once per combat.

I just thought of this one too:

New Feat: Hewing Strike
The efficiency of the warrior's strikes has been honed to an even deadlier precision, lopping off the limbs of enemies on nearly every strike.

Prerequisites: STR13+, Power Attack, Cleave, Great Cleave
Benefit: The character can elect to make a hewing strike with any one of his attacks in a round prior to rolling to hit. For that strike, the weapon's threat range is increased by 1. If the range was 20, then it increases to 19-20. If it was 19-20, it increases to 18-20, and so on.
Special: This feat may be taken once for every five character levels. For example, a 5th to 9th level character could have it once, while a 10th to 14th level character could apply it twice, further increasing the threat range of the strike.