So..... Whos taking Kzinti to the upcoming tournament in UK?

[Captain Jonah]

Currently the Kzinti have entire fleets with every ship having Drone 4s, the Feds can field DWDs with 4 Drones, at some point we are going to be getting the D6D with 6 Drones. This isn't an isolated problem :lol:

All power to engines gives you a 16" move and with power drain you can elect to fire only one weapon type (erm drones then :lol: ). Unless you do something wrong a fleet under cloak can never catch you unless they split up to try and surround you. At that point you just pick on part of the fleet while avoiding the rest of the Roms.

No matter how much terrain is on the map the Roms on 6" moves are too slow and even the agile ones on turn 3 can only make two turns, everything else has a 4 or higher and can turn only once under cloak.

Stay cloaked and its going to be a long slow game :roll:

 

[Clanger]

By the same token Captn, just using your Hello Kitty Fleet and staying at max range and playing with your Drones is a boring game as well.

Also for a Kitty Fleet to do damage to the Romulans they have to get in close otherwise their main weapon is useless vs a Rom Fleet. As Cloaked Roms are immune to Drones whilst under Cloak. And the Roms are not going to de clok unless they have initiative. The chance you have is to get a shot or two against them with the other weapons.

And also Terrain does make a big difference in all CTA games. In Tourneys there is a fair bit of terrain to use so the ranges are going to be short anyway.

 

[Captain Jonah]

By the same token Captn, just using your Hello Kitty Fleet and staying at max range and playing with your Drones is a boring game as well.

Also for a Kitty Fleet to do damage to the Romulans they have to get in close otherwise their main weapon is useless vs a Rom Fleet. As Cloaked Roms are immune to Drones whilst under Cloak. And the Roms are not going to de clok unless they have initiative. The chance you have is to get a shot or two against them with the other weapons.

And also Terrain does make a big difference in all CTA games. In Tourneys there is a fair bit of terrain to use so the ranges are going to be short anyway.

Very true but how many Furball players do you know. The few I know from back when a lot of us played SFB were all maniac hundreds of drones on the board types who just loved to have stacks of drone counters everywhere.

Yes it will be boring to watch and take part in unless thats the way you like your games. With an entire Rom fleet under cloak the Kzinti or Fed or Klingon can dance around firing at 15". Yes the stealth save is 2+ but you can still be chipped away bit by bit and if all fire is focused on one target it will get hurt after a while. Decloaking, jumping 6" and unloading on a ship that got too close may well kill it but unless your entire fleet decloaks that one ship is in for a world of hurt, followed by a screaming death and a glowing cloud of very small pieces :lol:

 

[Sgt_G]

I just posted a pair of Call Out Noted on the other board that may be of interest for Kzinti players.


Drone waves: bigger is not always better
by: Garth L. Getgen
29 January 2012

In the game A Call To Arms: Star Fleet, one single anti-drone system can defend a ship against an unlimited number of drones. However, the defending player must roll a six-sided die for each drone in the wave, and if any one of them is a "1", the anti-drone runs out of ammo. Ergo, for each drone, there is a 16.7% chance of losing that vital defense system. But what are the odds for two drones? Three drones, or four? And when is a drone wave "big enough" to guarantee running the anti-drone dry. At first glace, one might want to say two drones gives a 33.3% chance, but that is wrong. When two dice are rolled, there is a 1 in 36 chance that both dice are "1", five chances that the first die is a "1" and the second is not, and five more chances that the second die is the "1". Ergo, there is an 11 in 36 chance, or 30.6% chance. Three dice yields 91 in 216 chances, or 42.1%; four dice is 671 in 1296, or 51.8%. Continuing the math, the results are 5d6 = 59.8%, 6d6 = 66.5%, 7d6 = 72.1%, 8d6 = 76.7%, 9d6 = 80.6%, 10d6 = 83.8%, 11d6 = 76.5, and 12d6 = 88.8% chance of rolling at least one "1" in the mix. In the final analysis, a four-drone wave is usually enough to pull the anti-drone, with diminishing returns for waves over six drones.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

So many drones, so many choices
by Garth L. Getgen
29 January 2012

In the opening moves of the game, the Kzinti player's first mission is to pull the enemy's drone defenses. With six drones at its disposal, the dreadnought is the perfect tool for the job. As discussed in previous Call Out Note, a six-drone wave has a 66.5% chance of running an anti-drone system out of ammo. But in a target-rich environment, would the odds increase by splitting the wave up against several targets? Running the numbers, we find that two three-drone waves have a 17.7% chance of taking out both anti-drones, and a 48.8% change of getting just one of them. Splitting the wave into three two-drone salvos, the results are 2.9% to get all three, 19.5% to get two out of three, and 44.2% chance of getting only one. Firing one drone at each of six targets results in a 0.002% chance of getting all six anti-drones to roll a "1", a 0.06% chance of getting five of them, 0.8% to get four, 5.4% for three, 20.1% for two, and a 40.2% chance of pulling only one ship's anti-drone. In all cases, however, there is a 33.5% chance that a six drone salvo, no matter how it is split up, will not force any anti-drones to run dry. Regardless, it seem spliting the drone wave up against as many targets as possible is usually the best tactic.

 

[Nomad]

It seems splitting the drone wave up against as many targets as possible is usually the best tactic.

Unless each enemy ship chooses to shoot down those three drones with phasers, leaving their Anti-Drones intact.

Good work on the maths, but the current Kzinti fleet is a bit of a monoculture. Apart from the DN, you have a choice of either ships with four drone AD, or ships with four drone AD. And ADDs are not the only obstacle to overcome.

Choose one enemy ship to die. Fire drones at it with every ship in your fleet until it runs out of, in turn, phasers; counter-launched drones; fire from it's friends on IDF!; Anti-Drones; tractors; shields; hull points and the sweet vital spark of life itself. That will probably take at least one turn's firing, and a little opportunistic disruptor or phaser-1 fire to weaken that ship's shields is not a bad idea, either.

Now kill the next one. And hope that you are doing unto them more rapidly than you are being done unto.

Even a ship with depleted ADDs is not wholly defenceless against drones, and surely it is more important to kill enemy weapons as fast as you can.

 

[MongooseMatt]

With an entire Rom fleet under cloak the Kzinti or Fed or Klingon can dance around firing at 15".

Only if you are playing on a infinitely large table or have a very tiny Romulan fleet. If you maintain distance, at some point he will force you into a corner. If you try to break through the line, that is when he will attack.

And, as others have pointed out, that is assuming there is no terrain.

 

[deadshane]

With an entire Rom fleet under cloak the Kzinti or Fed or Klingon can dance around firing at 15".

Only if you are playing on a infinitely large table or have a very tiny Romulan fleet. If you maintain distance, at some point he will force you into a corner. If you try to break through the line, that is when he will attack.

And, as others have pointed out, that is assuming there is no terrain.

Yea....it is after all "space", there's a very limited amount of area to do battle in! :wink:

I remember playing starfleet battles, we always used floating maps.....bad policy for this game?

 

[GalagaGalaxian]

Yeah, CTA:SF seems to be written with the assumption of a fixed map.

Fixed maps are a lot harder to do in a gridless map system anyways, unless you've got chunks of play surface you can slide and move around.

 

[Nomad]

floating maps.....bad policy for this game?

AFAIK, simply not a policy for this game. Fixed maps only, unless you want to houserule it. Which may do odd things to play balance.

 

[Frankvas]

You guys do understand that the Kzinti/Ortega destroyer can still move, do special actions, use their own phasers, which are not inconsiderable, to defend against the Romulan's plasma right? They are also faster and more maneuverable. Get cornered, by a fleet that moves 6" and can only turn once? Ok, one ship might get caught, I'll just intensify defensive fire with everyone else, see how many plasmas get through? Don't forget, plasma are fairly short range weapons.

What about the races that don't have cloaks? You are telling me you can counter 36 drones in one turn? 36 drones plus phasers/disruptors next turn, virtually not returning any fire because all your phasers are concentrating on the drones?

You all power to engines, you are not concentrating defensive fire power, at least one ship is dead. You don't say, "I fire 36 drones at that ship", you say, I fire 1-4 drones at a ship, so you are not going to overkill a ship and you can spread the damage well to maximize it. I don't even have to kill one your ship, I just have to cripple one and move to the next. I can do that to multiples with that many drones.

Also, getting rid of the crew quality for intensify defensive fire would really hurt plasma races, its hard as it is to get a few in, now it'd be almost impossible.

As I see it, the cheap Drone ships as the new Gaim. There's no beating them with "tactics" because they don't use tactics. I really like the game so far, I want it to be balanced though. Cruisers having 4 drones, no problem, 110-120 points ships having 4 drones, broken.

Frank V.

 

[GalagaGalaxian]

They very well could be.

However, I think actual games (and lots of em) need to be played before we all potentially go "cry wolf". This applies to a great number of things we've all be fretting about, not just drone frigates/destroyers.

 

[deadshane]

What about the races that don't have cloaks? You are telling me you can counter 36 drones in one turn? 36 drones plus phasers/disruptors next turn, virtually not returning any fire because all your phasers are concentrating on the drones?

.

Yup.

Pretty easily actually. Feds and Klingons can do it quite well as a matter of fact. Sure, it's a chore, but it can be done.

Once you're in range, it becomes REALLY easy to manage against these sad frigate fleets. Ever seen what happens to those frigates after 1-2 photons sneak past the sheilds.

...4 less drones coming my way. :mrgreen:

Kzinti drone spam is also a great reason to look very seriously at the fast cruisers in the Fed/Klingon fleet.

....more phasers, and get there quick to take out frigates.

 

[McKinstry]

I think it will take a lot of games once the Kzinti are out and in lots of hands but it should be interesting to see how the first tournament goes assuming a drone heavy fleet shows up.

I do think having the IDF special action an auto instead of a crew check makes intuitive sense. Most NATO warships have a datalink against incoming threats in the here and now. It seems reasonable to assume that technology would be automated on a starship.

 

[MongooseMatt]

I remember playing starfleet battles, we always used floating maps.....bad policy for this game?

It is not a bad policy, it is just not in the rules (yet)!

 

[MongooseMatt]

I'll just intensify defensive fire with everyone else,

One tiny issue with this...

You would have to predict which ship he is going to weigh upon _before_ either of you move. Remember, Special Actions are chosen before a ship moves, so if you if you make the wrong guess, you could leave a hole in your line that only one or two ships need to exploit in order to cause serious problems.

Seriously though, of all the weapons in the game, Drones are the least people should be worrying about. Sure, they automatically hit. They need to, given the phalanx of defences that can be employed against them and the inability to get the early hits through the shields. And God forbid you start rolling below average for their damage...

 

[archon96]

and a gorn fleet slowly creeping up on you with boosted shields can be a very fearfull thing.

 

[Captain Jonah]

and a gorn fleet slowly creeping up on you with boosted shields can be a very fearfull thing.

Slowly creeping? Just don't fire the plasmas and go 12" till you are in range of the hot plasma death storm :twisted:

IDF is a lot better than boost shields though, even on the 30 shield stuff you get 3D6, that is on average 3 drone hits and a few friendly ships next you you on IDF will stop a lot more than that.

Phase range 18"
Plasma optimal range 8"
Distance you have to cross while being pelted by Drones from those cowardly drone chucking Klinks, Flat tops, Furballs 36"
The look on the furballs face when you stop his entire drone salvo without taking damage Priceless :lol:

 

[AdmiralGrafSpee]

and a gorn fleet slowly creeping up on you with boosted shields can be a very fearfull thing.

Slowly creeping? Just don't fire the plasmas and go 12" till you are in range of the hot plasma death storm :twisted:

IDF is a lot better than boost shields though, even on the 30 shield stuff you get 3D6, that is on average 3 drone hits and a few friendly ships next you you on IDF will stop a lot more than that.

Phase range 18"
Plasma optimal range 8"
Distance you have to cross while being pelted by Drones from those cowardly drone chucking Klinks, Flat tops, Furballs 36"
The look on the furballs face when you stop his entire drone salvo without taking damage Priceless :lol:

And hence why IDF is not automatic.

 

[Frankvas]

Captain Jonah wrote:
archon96 wrote:
and a gorn fleet slowly creeping up on you with boosted shields can be a very fearfull thing.


Slowly creeping? Just don't fire the plasmas and go 12" till you are in range of the hot plasma death storm :twisted:

IDF is a lot better than boost shields though, even on the 30 shield stuff you get 3D6, that is on average 3 drone hits and a few friendly ships next you you on IDF will stop a lot more than that.

Phase range 18"
Plasma optimal range 8"
Distance you have to cross while being pelted by Drones from those cowardly drone chucking Klinks, Flat tops, Furballs 36"
The look on the furballs face when you stop his entire drone salvo without taking damage Priceless :lol:

Who says I'm shooting at the ship with the reinforce shields? I'm shooting at one of the ships that made the IDF, thus reducing your IDF even more.