[Rumor] Conan 2nd Ed to use Runequest system?

[RMS]

Okay, just exploring the possibilities here. I'm not going into whether or not RQ is better than d20 as it's a personal preference thing for individuals. Neither system is "better" (unless someone can back that argument up with some form of scientific proof it's just their opinion), its just that some people prefer one and some prefer the other.

I don't think anyone has claimed one system is objectively for-every-purpose better than the other, but several of us have pointed out that the style (feel) of RQ is much closer to how the Conan universe feels than any d20 variant is going to be. That's not really personal preference as you state it. However, I do accept that many people want to world to function far differently as an RPG world than it does in the stories and that is a fair position to take.

 

[RMS]

That link reminds me of Call of Cthulhu from ~15 years ago, and that system was not particularly impressive. It still has the clunkiness of hit points, weapon damage dice, etc., like D&D, "random" base %s for various skills, etc. - it is a very primitive system. There are other systems which eliminated classes and levels, and done a better job of it, e.g., Hero and Mutants & Masterminds.

CoC is derived from the original RQ. Claiming any form of BRP is clunky and then listing Hero as an alternative is very interesting to say the least!

 

[Melkor]

CoC is derived from the original RQ. Claiming any form of BRP is clunky and then listing Hero as an alternative is very interesting to say the least!

That was my first thought as well RMS.

Obviously tastes vary greatly, but when I think of systems that I consider to be quite elegant, BRP (Runequest) tops the list. When I think of systems I consider 'clunky', I think of D20 and HERO.

Granted, I really like D20 Conan - it's the only version of D20 that I think really does things well. I also enjoy the HERO system for what it is. You can do anything with it, but it is kind of clunky.

 

[RMS]

Obviously tastes vary greatly, but when I think of systems that I consider to be quite elegant, BRP (Runequest) tops the list. When I think of systems I consider 'clunky', I think of D20 and HERO.

Exactly. BRP is elegant, simple, and does a good job of feeling gritty and realistic in one system. It nicely fades into the background during play so that players interact with the world rather than worrying about mechanics. I like that for many games I play. I hope that MRQ will continue with that. Games like D20 and HERO are just too "gamey" for me anymore: too much mechanics and too much playing the game vs. interacting with the world. That's fine for someone who enjoys them and has the time to sit down and read through them. It just isn't me. If I want that kind of fiddliness, I'd rather spend the time with a wargame, or actually spend the time doing research for work.

Granted, I really like D20 Conan - it's the only version of D20 that I think really does things well. I also enjoy the HERO system for what it is. You can do anything with it, but it is kind of clunky.

My eyes glaze over when I think about the amount of front load to play a game like that anymore. I look at the new HERO book and wonder how I'd ever have the time to read through it, let alone fiddle with everything to put together a game.

 

[Strom]

I take it you have played the Conan RPG, RMS? You have invested time and money in the current system? Or, you just 'know' The RQ system feels like a Hyborian game should based on your D20 experience?

Just wondering if you would be so adamant about a switch from RQ to Conan D20? If it's just personal preference why argue for the switch? You can continue to play your Conan with RQ rules. Those of us who have invested the time and money in the line as it is should be upset that any future book will either have dual stats (which just pads the page count and price) or future books will be totally converted to RQ's system essentially ending the line as we know it right now.

Total bullshit, IMO. And I just can't see Mongoose making such a bonehead move especially since they haven't even seen the RQ sales numbers.

Anyway, seems to me those of us who don't like the idea have the capital to complain - we have money, time, space, books, ideas, and on-going campaigns invested.

 

[RMS]

Just wondering if you would be so adamant about a switch from RQ to Conan D20? If it's just personal preference why argue for the switch? You can continue to play your Conan with RQ rules.

Who's been adamant about it? I've only pointed out that older RQ, and by extrapolation new MRQ (since we only have a few pages of previews at this point), is a better fit for Conan, and similar gritty S&S worlds. This is a thead about why they'd change systems, and that is one very good explanation for why they'd make the change. If you have a better explanation, I'd be interested to hear it. There are other reasons that have to do with strictly business decisions that may also be compeling.

Total bullshit, IMO. And I just can't see Mongoose making such a bonehead move especially since they haven't even seen the RQ sales numbers.

Be careful. You're agreeing with me now. If you want to go on a rant, you need to stay on your own side of the discussion! I've said several times in this thread that I seriously doubt they'll drop d20 Conan completely.

Anyway, seems to me those of us who don't like the idea have the capital to complain - we have money, time, space, books, ideas, and on-going campaigns invested.

There's a very vocal, but quite small group here. It stands to reason that a group who bothers to log in and post on the Mongoose/Conan discussion board would be hardcore supporters of the game. Whether that translates to such a feeling for the marketplace at large is yet to be seen.

 

[Taharqa]

This is horrible news. BRP is a dreadfully awful system that has only survived this long in the world due to the success of CoC (due to setting and atmosphere not mechanics) and because anti-D20 folks need something to provide them with distinction. I have already explained why the system is poor from a technical/statistical point of view in an old post, so I won't revisit it here, but needless to say Mongoose can count me out. I guess this is just helping pushing me toward the True20 S&S setting that has been brewing in my head...

 

[Strom]

Be careful.

Around here - on the Conan page - we're blunt. We're barbaric. We live and play hard.

And we like straight answers. Played the game or not? 8)

:?

 

[Enpeze]

Taharqua,
Well its interesting that you think that Moongoose invests so much energy in a "dreadfully awful game system" which is "poor trom a statistical point of view".

I think the opposite. I think that Moongoose will contribute very much to the revival of one of the better gaming systems out there. And they changed it in a way that it will be usable for many different game settings.

For this innovative and courageous action they will get my interest and money. And that I am not the only one which is excited in MRQ is proofed by the fact that there are nearly 2.500 forum posts in the Runequest section. And the game is not even out now.

They will win many new customers with this step. And I doubt that they will loose a big part of their old customer base of d20 conan if they change the gaming system. Many of the conan fans will switch to the new system too because one or more of the following reasons:

-its simple to learn
-MRQ is better suited to the brutal conan world than d20 (deadlier and faster)
-because they think system doesnt matter as long as they can play in the conan world

 

[bolen]

I for one would welcome it, I have all the d20 stuff and I have to say it is overly complex and cludgy. I played a game using the Savage Worlds rules and it seemed much more elegant.

I dont know much about runequest but if it has a better combat system and character creation. I'd be all for it.

 

[RMS]

Around here - on the Conan page - we're blunt. We're barbaric. We live and play hard.

And we like straight answers. Played the game or not? 8)

You're blunt, barbaric, and apparently can't read!

I skipped your questions the first time around because I've answered all of them earlier in this thread. Since I'm a nice guy, I'll summarize for you.

Yes, I have read Conan. I wouldn't comment in a thread like this if I wasn't familiar with both systems being discussed. No, I did not purchase it since it's not a design that appealed to me. For the same reason, I have not run it, and have no plans to run it. (No offense, but isn't it pretty obvious that if I don't like a game, I'm not going to waste time playing it?)

Also, for the record I'm not RQ fanboy, or a fanboy of any particular system. I just want to run the system that works best for a given genre. For Conan there are several different systems I'd consider. RQ is only one of them, but it's the only one owned by Mongoose so the only one relevent to this discussion.

Edit: Got my computer time cut off by realworld events the first time around.

 

[Mark Dunder]

I feel that d20 will forever have a D&D flavor for me. I've not much played RQ. So that leaves me with Talent. I like the use of Weaknesses in the game. The ones for magic and such play out real well. No other RPG seems to do a better job at this. Anytime someone encounters something that triggers their Weakness, they have role-play the situation out. It a lot like having a fight, except you are fighting yourself and your deep inmost failings. For me, that gives the flavor of Conan.

So if RQ wins or d20 wins, its pretty much the same for me.

 

[Padre]

Option 1)
The rumour is nothing more than a rumour. Thats fine for the d20 crowd, the RQ people will be disappointed. Doesn't make much business sense if Mongoose have the RQ and Conan licenses as they can effectively grab lots of new customers for "free" through the synergy (I always wanted to the chance to use that word somewhere!) of the two.

Leaving things as they are makes a lot business sense IMHO. There is no guarantee that you'll 'grab lots of new customers' through synergy, but it's 100% sure you'll lose some of them.

Option 2)
The rumour is mostly correct. There's going to be a Conan setting book for RQ and a conversion document that lets them use all the existing and future OGL Conan material. OGL Conan continues to be the "main" game, the RQ people may still be a little disappointed but the OGL people don't feel dumped. Cool with that.

Good solution. D20 and RQ fans don't have to share space and the current line remains unaffected. The RQ crowd may feel disappointed, but they can always play RQ if they don't feel like converting the rules for Conan.

Option 3)
RQ Conan is being brought out as an alternative. Future products will be dual-statted. Thats even better as nobody gets left out. I personally hope it's this.

Not good. Both sides lose space. D20 fans would have to pay for RQ material (useless to them) and vice versa. Rules-heavy supplements would be a nightmare.

Option 4)
OGL Conan is being dumped after many people spent lots of money on it. This isn't the same as B5 2nd edition where you can pretty much port the stats over without even thinking about it. This is pretty much dumping the existing Conan players in the quagmire and saying "stuff you, we've got your money and now we don't care about you any more, if you want to keep up you've got lots of paperwork to do to use the new supplements". This is quite possibly the worst of all options from the view of existing customers.

Yup, the worst option.

 

[AURIKALKO]

HI!

EVERYTHING in the RQ/BRPSystem makes sense in the Conan milieu. I you don't agree, please play Stormbringer RPG & be green with envy for such a smooth fantasy RPS.

Great news!

Gonna break my piggy bank for this one!
Aurik
of Al
KO

 

[AikiGhost]

Taharqua,
Well its interesting that you think that Moongoose invests so much energy in a "dreadfully awful game system" which is "poor trom a statistical point of view".

I think the opposite. I think that Moongoose will contribute very much to the revival of one of the better gaming systems out there. And they changed it in a way that it will be usable for many different game settings.

Well said. RQ is one of the most elegant and to the point systems out there, quite simply it gets out of the way and lets you concentrate on more important aspects of RP.

 

[Darrin Kelley]

The OGL is a perpetual license. It's very design prevents it from being closed down. The 3.0 and 3.5 SRDs are still out there for people to use and always will be. That genie can't be re-bottled.

What WotC can do is make D&D 4th edition a system not released under the OGL. Keep it entirely in house and unlicensed.

Mongoose and the other companies who have been using the SRDs have the option of just ignoring the next edition of D&D entirely and continuing on how they have been. Their games won't share as much compatibility with the then current version of D&D. But so what? As much as Mongoose has already deviated from the main line SRD with Conan and the other OGL games they have published, I believe that it really is a non-issue. The games stand on their own.

 

[Bregales]

Thanks Darrin Kelley, I really wasn't sure about the OGL license versus d20 per se, in regards to WotC control vs. free licensing for perpetuity.

Personally, I feel that OGL is VERY clunky and extremely rules heavy. As with many of the writers on this thread, I currently own every Mongoose product except for Tito's Trading Post.

I played RuneQuest for about 3 sessions back in the early 90s, but remember very little; wasn't that the game where one of the player races was a duck :?: :roll:

 

[bc99]

If I may, what is the big difference between Conan D20 and the runequest system?

D20 is very much a figure-oriented rule set, whereas other gaming systems seem to be more RP or narative oriented.

Thanks for filling in the clueless

 

[RMS]

I played RuneQuest for about 3 sessions back in the early 90s, but remember very little; wasn't that the game where one of the player races was a duck :?: :roll:

Yep. There is much love and much hate for ducks. They come out of the world of Glorantha, which is what RQ was originally released for. I've written them out of my version of the world, but if you stop to think about it, they're no more silly than hobbits/haflings, gnomes, elves, or dwarves which are apparently much more acceptable make-believe fantasy races.

 

[Taharqa]

Taharqua,
Well its interesting that you think that Moongoose invests so much energy in a "dreadfully awful game system" which is "poor trom a statistical point of view".

I think the opposite. I think that Moongoose will contribute very much to the revival of one of the better gaming systems out there. And they changed it in a way that it will be usable for many different game settings.

For this innovative and courageous action they will get my interest and money. And that I am not the only one which is excited in MRQ is proofed by the fact that there are nearly 2.500 forum posts in the Runequest section. And the game is not even out now.

The issue is not the existence and size of the RQ market. Mongoose makes its living identifying niche markets, so I have no doubt that they have done their research. And I have no problem with an RQ resurrection in and of itself, even though I think the BRP rules are horrible and I will certainly never use them.

The problem comes when (and if) Mongoose pushes a different game system onto a product line that most people are very happy with.

They will win many new customers with this step. And I doubt that they will loose a big part of their old customer base of d20 conan if they change the gaming system. Many of the conan fans will switch to the new system too because one or more of the following reasons:

-its simple to learn

That's because it is full of holes. I could write an even simpler system in one sentence: "Just do... whatever you feel like", but that doesn't mean it is a better system.

-MRQ is better suited to the brutal conan world than d20 (deadlier and faster)

Have you played d20 Conan? I don't see how any system that uses hit locations could claim to be faster.

-because they think system doesnt matter as long as they can play in the conan world

You do realize that is hypocritical, don't you? If system doesn't matter, then why switch to RQ?