[Rumor] Conan 2nd Ed to use Runequest system?
- Thread starter Ashigaru
- Start date
My original post was a simple response to the poster who stated: "If I have to start converting my 400 dollar Conan d20 collection to another system it surely won't be RQ."
My point simply being: Why do you HAVE to convert or stop using what you are currently enjoying?
That point is based on my opinion that the D20 Conan line is quite complete as it stands, and while future support in a game line is always desireable, I don't see it as an absolute necessity that requires you to convert to a new system (assuming you enjoy the current one), or something that invalidates material you may have already purchased.
For the record, my "Frenzy" comment was not directed at you, but rather, and those who seem to be assuming the worse regarding unconfirmed rumor, and who further seem to assume that any material they currently have becomes useless as soon as the speculated RQ Conan is released.
With regards to your comment about Runequest, I'm not sure I see the correlation.
I never made any mention regarding a desire to see a new edition of Runequest.
Furthermore, if I had, to even try to draw a comparison between my response to the original poster, and the statement you made regarding wanting a new edition of RQ (instead of just playing the two-decade old edition), one would have to assume that I actually own a copy of the original RQ rules (or, to better compare it, $400 worth of original RQ product), and that I am currently complaining that when the new RQ comes out, I would have to convert all of my existing material over to a new edition, or that said material would somehow become useless once the Mongoose RQ line was released.
To further seperate the argument, Runequest books from two decades ago can be fairly hard to locate and expensive to acquire - so, while I am indeed glad that a new version is coming out, I would have been just as happy if reprints of the original material, or even PDFs - were made availabe - and in support of my argument, I could have played with that material for years without additional support or the requirement to convert to Mongoose's new RQ.
As an aside, the only RQ product I currently own is Avalon Hill's RQ3 (which the pages have seperated from the binding), Apple Lane, and a collection of adventures dealing with Trolls - which means I will be buying the new RQ from Mongoose.
To address your other points, I agree with most of what you are saying.....D20 Conan is excellent, so why mess with a good thing ?
As mentioned, I feel the game line is fairly complete, but all things considered, I am sure that there are some areas of setting that could make Mongoose money with future product, and fans happy with future system support, and I'm not arguing that at all.
Edit to add: I think some of the above speaks to your post as well Azgulor.
I understand the desire to not see D20 Conan monkeyed with or dropped for a new system based on RQ.
Msprange also responded in the RQ forum regarding this rumor, so anyone interested might want to head over there and take a look.
My point simply being: Why do you HAVE to convert or stop using what you are currently enjoying?
That point is based on my opinion that the D20 Conan line is quite complete as it stands, and while future support in a game line is always desireable, I don't see it as an absolute necessity that requires you to convert to a new system (assuming you enjoy the current one), or something that invalidates material you may have already purchased.
For the record, my "Frenzy" comment was not directed at you, but rather, and those who seem to be assuming the worse regarding unconfirmed rumor, and who further seem to assume that any material they currently have becomes useless as soon as the speculated RQ Conan is released.
With regards to your comment about Runequest, I'm not sure I see the correlation.
I never made any mention regarding a desire to see a new edition of Runequest.
Furthermore, if I had, to even try to draw a comparison between my response to the original poster, and the statement you made regarding wanting a new edition of RQ (instead of just playing the two-decade old edition), one would have to assume that I actually own a copy of the original RQ rules (or, to better compare it, $400 worth of original RQ product), and that I am currently complaining that when the new RQ comes out, I would have to convert all of my existing material over to a new edition, or that said material would somehow become useless once the Mongoose RQ line was released.
To further seperate the argument, Runequest books from two decades ago can be fairly hard to locate and expensive to acquire - so, while I am indeed glad that a new version is coming out, I would have been just as happy if reprints of the original material, or even PDFs - were made availabe - and in support of my argument, I could have played with that material for years without additional support or the requirement to convert to Mongoose's new RQ.
As an aside, the only RQ product I currently own is Avalon Hill's RQ3 (which the pages have seperated from the binding), Apple Lane, and a collection of adventures dealing with Trolls - which means I will be buying the new RQ from Mongoose.
To address your other points, I agree with most of what you are saying.....D20 Conan is excellent, so why mess with a good thing ?
As mentioned, I feel the game line is fairly complete, but all things considered, I am sure that there are some areas of setting that could make Mongoose money with future product, and fans happy with future system support, and I'm not arguing that at all.
Edit to add: I think some of the above speaks to your post as well Azgulor.
I understand the desire to not see D20 Conan monkeyed with or dropped for a new system based on RQ.
Msprange also responded in the RQ forum regarding this rumor, so anyone interested might want to head over there and take a look.
Melkor said:
Exactly. To further support your argument, I've been running much of that RQ material for 20+ years without a problem. It didn't become useless just because it's long out of print. In fact the entire reason you can't buy it off ebay for reasonable prices is because it's excellent material. (Aside: my one fear is whether Mongoose can actually match the quality of some of the old Chaosium/AH material. That's a very high bar to reach.)
Btw, are you aware that much of the RQ2 material has been reprinted in recent years as the Glorantha Classics? If not, you should check it out. A couple of those books will support years of game play by themselves.
I'm sure he's been reading these all along, but decided to quell some of the hysteria before it got too out of hand, and as I said above I'm sure they'll continue to support d20 Conan if the $ are really there for it. It'd be stupid not to.
Turloigh said:Oh, and I forgot to mention... RuneQuest used to the best fantasy game system ever. More realistic, but still easier to learn than D&D. Let's hope the Mongoose version keeps it that way.Darrin Kelley said:
I suppose Mongoose has bigger plans than riding the d20 train. Frankly, here's hoping that the new RuneQuest succeeds, and kicks some d20 butt in the process.
EDIT: Oops, that sounded more harsh than intended. Apologies! I'm a fanboy, so shoot me.
My wild guess is that the current Conan sorcery system could be ported over to RuneQuest with relative ease. In fact, our GM (Sven, who is also on these boards) has already done so.RMS said:
As I never get tired of telling, my group has been playing RuneQuest in Conan's setting for a dozen years or so, despite the lack of any support (RuneQuest wasn't even in print and our only sourcebook was GURPS Conan).
We tried OGL Conan too, decided we didn't like it before hitting 3rd level, and switched back to RuneQuest. I'm still buying the books, just for setting info.
If the rumour is true, then it's a change I welcome.
Just my 2 coppers...[/quote]
Well, the old Runequest was indeed one of the most practical and fastest-to-learn RPG's. And it was easier to create the character you really want to have. And no levels!!!
The only drawback was the magic part, which was not very Conan. But maybe the new Runequest can solve this problem.
(I do not know much of the new RQ, but I hope it will be good)
I would like to see Conan for both systems, D20 AND RQ, so every group could choose the system they want to use.
The main system should be D20 (this was the beginner system), and RQ should be a alternative system.
Well maybe they risk to loose you as a customer. But they win me as a new one. And I have 400$ in my wallet too.
Its no wonder that it was hard to get your group playing d20 rules. This is not the same with MRQ. You will learn it in one or 2 sessions without a problem. MRQ is simple, elegant and deadly, like a rapier. It is much more suited to the way Howard would see his world than the rule-heavy d20.
Okay, just exploring the possibilities here. I'm not going into whether or not RQ is better than d20 as it's a personal preference thing for individuals. Neither system is "better" (unless someone can back that argument up with some form of scientific proof it's just their opinion), its just that some people prefer one and some prefer the other.
Option 1)
The rumour is nothing more than a rumour. Thats fine for the d20 crowd, the RQ people will be disappointed. Doesn't make much business sense if Mongoose have the RQ and Conan licenses as they can effectively grab lots of new customers for "free" through the synergy (I always wanted to the chance to use that word somewhere!) of the two.
Option 2)
The rumour is mostly correct. There's going to be a Conan setting book for RQ and a conversion document that lets them use all the existing and future OGL Conan material. OGL Conan continues to be the "main" game, the RQ people may still be a little disappointed but the OGL people don't feel dumped. Cool with that.
Option 3)
RQ Conan is being brought out as an alternative. Future products will be dual-statted. Thats even better as nobody gets left out. I personally hope it's this.
Option 4)
OGL Conan is being dumped after many people spent lots of money on it. This isn't the same as B5 2nd edition where you can pretty much port the stats over without even thinking about it. This is pretty much dumping the existing Conan players in the quagmire and saying "stuff you, we've got your money and now we don't care about you any more, if you want to keep up you've got lots of paperwork to do to use the new supplements". This is quite possibly the worst of all options from the view of existing customers.
Option 1)
The rumour is nothing more than a rumour. Thats fine for the d20 crowd, the RQ people will be disappointed. Doesn't make much business sense if Mongoose have the RQ and Conan licenses as they can effectively grab lots of new customers for "free" through the synergy (I always wanted to the chance to use that word somewhere!) of the two.
Option 2)
The rumour is mostly correct. There's going to be a Conan setting book for RQ and a conversion document that lets them use all the existing and future OGL Conan material. OGL Conan continues to be the "main" game, the RQ people may still be a little disappointed but the OGL people don't feel dumped. Cool with that.
Option 3)
RQ Conan is being brought out as an alternative. Future products will be dual-statted. Thats even better as nobody gets left out. I personally hope it's this.
Option 4)
OGL Conan is being dumped after many people spent lots of money on it. This isn't the same as B5 2nd edition where you can pretty much port the stats over without even thinking about it. This is pretty much dumping the existing Conan players in the quagmire and saying "stuff you, we've got your money and now we don't care about you any more, if you want to keep up you've got lots of paperwork to do to use the new supplements". This is quite possibly the worst of all options from the view of existing customers.
That is something I'm looking forward to. IIRC, Matthew Sprange actually said as much, even if indirectly.Ashigaru said:
To that I can agree, and I'm saying that despite being an RQ fanboy.FuryMaster said:
See, statements like these surprise me.FuryMaster said:
As I said before, my group has tried OGL Conan, didn't like it and switched our Conan campaign back to our familiar RQ system. Even so, both my GM and me keep buying the OGL Conan supplements and supporting the line. If 1.) you buy it, and 2.) let's suppose you like it, and 3.) the company supports it, why not actually play it at some point in the future?
IMHO, the least you OGL Conan fans could do is at least take a look at the game before making blunt statements like "they'll lose me as a customer".
Finally, from the thread in the RuneQuest forum...
So for the time being, it IS only a rumour, so we all can calm down a bit.msprange said:To add to that, no firm decision about Conan has been made at all yet. However, one way or another, we'll see you right
Enpeze said:
Well maybe they risk to loose you as a customer. But they win me as a new one. And I have 400$ in my wallet too.
Its no wonder that it was hard to get your group playing d20 rules. This is not the same with MRQ. You will learn it in one or 2 sessions without a problem. MRQ is simple, elegant and deadly, like a rapier. It is much more suited to the way Howard would see his world than the rule-heavy d20.
No offense but it doesn't matter how good a system is with some people. I collect systems and with the exception of Storyteller and d20 my group won't play anything. Well... sometimes they'll play Twilight 2000...
Melkor said:
The key to my statement is "if". While you may feel that thier is enough already enough printed to keep a group playing for years it's not true for my group. Between two campaigns we've used every book in our collection with the exception of Thunder River. Sure I could go back but eventually players start to get bored of going back to the well too many times. New products keep players interested, and I don't have the time to develop everything on my own.
mthomason said:
This would be the best options for both worlds, the only thing is that dual stats cut down on the amount of content in the books. Which brings down the value to players of one specific system. But it's he best option all around.
High Lord Dee
Mongoose
No RQ please for Conan. The system that Mongoose has developed has achieved worldwide praise from REH fans. Conan is truly a unique challenge in creating more of a swords and sorcery setting versus high fantasy while staying true to a literary genious. Do not know enough about RQ to know whether it COULD work for Conan or not but I do know that the Conan system does work. Just keep putting out the source material and the mass combat miniatures Age of Conan and we will all be happy (well most of us at least). Would not relish learning a new system when the d20 modifications work so well. Just my two cents.
Foxworthy...Twighlight 2000 rocks! Too bad you are not near Chicago. Would love to get into a game. Have all the stuff (albiet dust covered) but good to see that it still lives on in some places.
HLD
Foxworthy...Twighlight 2000 rocks! Too bad you are not near Chicago. Would love to get into a game. Have all the stuff (albiet dust covered) but good to see that it still lives on in some places.
HLD
Over the last year, I've become increasingly disenchanted with Mongoose in regards to their RPG lines. I would not welcome any move to dual-stat or transition over to a new game system, however brilliant its adherents claim it to be. The system works fine -- its enjoyed by a majority of gamers (despite being the Windows of the gaming world), and there is a ton of already printed source material that people will resent having to 'convert' or become obsolete.
The main complaint is the perception that Mongoose is messing with another product. Lots of energy was dedicated to Starship Troopers, and then it seems to have gone into hiatus. Conan has a loyal following despite people moaning about the d20 system. Why alienate your customers by an unnecessary retool? If Mongoose does that with Starship Troopers (and a conversion to RQ is the reason behind the lack of new material) then I certainly WON'T bother to purchase additional products for the game, and I'll go back to just buying D20 Future supplements from Wizards!
And regarding the d20 v. other game systems... There was absolutely nothing wrong with either the 1st edition D&D rules or the orignal BRP rules. Everything tacked on afterwards (ESP D&D 2nd ed.!) was designed for one thing: to make money. Most games are now so damn complex and rule heavy that it is making RPGs an unattractive alternative to minis and ccgs. Used to be a ten year old could pick up basic D&D and within a year have mastered AD&D... The sheer breadth of rules, alternatives and supplements rivals that of the US tax code...
The main complaint is the perception that Mongoose is messing with another product. Lots of energy was dedicated to Starship Troopers, and then it seems to have gone into hiatus. Conan has a loyal following despite people moaning about the d20 system. Why alienate your customers by an unnecessary retool? If Mongoose does that with Starship Troopers (and a conversion to RQ is the reason behind the lack of new material) then I certainly WON'T bother to purchase additional products for the game, and I'll go back to just buying D20 Future supplements from Wizards!
And regarding the d20 v. other game systems... There was absolutely nothing wrong with either the 1st edition D&D rules or the orignal BRP rules. Everything tacked on afterwards (ESP D&D 2nd ed.!) was designed for one thing: to make money. Most games are now so damn complex and rule heavy that it is making RPGs an unattractive alternative to minis and ccgs. Used to be a ten year old could pick up basic D&D and within a year have mastered AD&D... The sheer breadth of rules, alternatives and supplements rivals that of the US tax code...
FailedSpotCheck
Mongoose
I've got the be-all and end-all solution:
I'm a die-hard Conan RPG fan, and since I know nothing of RQ, and the only RPG rules-engine I know is d20, it's unlikely that I would have any incentive to cross over to any other system. So...
I propose that Mongoose give all Conan RPG fans sceptical of RQ (including me) some free RQ rulebooks to win us over!!
Or...
Perhaps when they turn everything Conan into RQ, they finally make an accurate Runequest version of the Shadizar map! :roll:
I've been VERY supportive of Mongoose's Conan line. I've never been this faithful to any product line ever (well....maybe MacDonald's). Mongoose has our cash and our hearts...I hope they don't ruin (or, rune) this beautiful love-affair. *sniff*
I'm a die-hard Conan RPG fan, and since I know nothing of RQ, and the only RPG rules-engine I know is d20, it's unlikely that I would have any incentive to cross over to any other system. So...
I propose that Mongoose give all Conan RPG fans sceptical of RQ (including me) some free RQ rulebooks to win us over!!
Or...
Perhaps when they turn everything Conan into RQ, they finally make an accurate Runequest version of the Shadizar map! :roll:
I've been VERY supportive of Mongoose's Conan line. I've never been this faithful to any product line ever (well....maybe MacDonald's). Mongoose has our cash and our hearts...I hope they don't ruin (or, rune) this beautiful love-affair. *sniff*
I have been looking for this post all night. It may be that Matthew Sprange fears that the release of 4th ed will mean WotC closing the OGL license of the 3.x system. :roll:Tiberius said:
[edit: Damn, the link isn't matching up. Oh well, I just had it and after entering the above post I clicked the url again and got a missing thread link, I wonder if it was removed?]
As a fan of RPG's since the late 70's Conan has been my first experience of d20. I have to say that I find there are way too many rules compared to other RPG's... I like the Runequest system (or the other basic role playing off-shoots of it) and indeed many years ago I played a Conan game using the Stormbringer/Elric rules. I suppose the attraction of the basic roleplaying / Runequest system over d20 for me is a) there are far fewer rules b) even inexperienced characters can beat up a big baddy if they get very lucky with the dice and c) less rigid clharacter class and experience system. I'm sure d20 is a fine system once you get used to it (certainly seems better than old D&D and AD&D) but I don't really want to still be reading rules a week after I buy the game when there's actually so much good source material to be reading too. So..... I'd welcome a move to Runequest rules.
Excellent news, I relly hope it turns out to be true. I'm one of theose rare people who doesnt have much interest in d20 stuff (hate classes & levels) so RQ Conan is a definite "Must Buy" for me. In fact Im betting that RQ Conan will be bought by almost all the RQ fans out there.
Bregales said:
An OGL game (like Conan) would not have to change because it's not connected to 3.5 or D20.
As mentioned on the RQ Conan thread in the RQ forum, the concern would be that you currently get a lot of people who play D&D that might pick up OGL Conan because they are familiar with the system, but over time, if D&D 4th Edition is a radical change from 3E/D20, you would lose those people crossing over from D&D because the systems are different....just a thought, and it's presuming a lot.
Point is, a game created under the OGL is completely seperate from the D20 license or D&D.
slaughterj
Mongoose
GbajiTheDeceiver said:
That link reminds me of Call of Cthulhu from ~15 years ago, and that system was not particularly impressive. It still has the clunkiness of hit points, weapon damage dice, etc., like D&D, "random" base %s for various skills, etc. - it is a very primitive system. There are other systems which eliminated classes and levels, and done a better job of it, e.g., Hero and Mutants & Masterminds.
High Lord Dee said:
Yeah we bring it out for filler games every now and then. We have almost everything for the system but found that it's very hard to play a campaign of twilight 2000. It doesn't help that all I ever do is shoot people in the head at close range with a HK CAW filled with buck shot... I still haven't found a better game for John Wayne war movie fun.
Darrin Kelley
Mongoose
OGL Conan I feel is a superior game to D&D. It removed all of the annoyances I have had with D&D and added in a whole lot of flavor. Mechanically, I don't feel that the Conan system can do any wrong.
As for Runequest. Well I have played a previous edition. I have even played Stormbringer. BRP is an okay system in CoC. But I don't see it as doing fantasy well.
As for Runequest. Well I have played a previous edition. I have even played Stormbringer. BRP is an okay system in CoC. But I don't see it as doing fantasy well.
