[Rumor] Conan 2nd Ed to use Runequest system?
- Thread starter Ashigaru
- Start date
Darrin Kelley said:
The logic is that RQ is a much better fit for the material. It's mechanics would support the feel of Conan in a way that no d20 system (that I'm aware of) is going to.
Agreed. From a business perspective, I have a hard time believing that this would be a good switch. At the very least, I'd bet that Mongoose wouldn't make the switch until RQ gets it's feet on the ground, and then I'd expect something with double-stats rather than a complete switch.
Decurio said:Strom said:
Give it shot, you might like it...
It's also very inaccurate. RQ may now be a "fringe game" since it's 15 years out of print, though this can be debated since it's descendents are still going strong, like Stormbringer and CoC. However, for a long time it was 2nd only to D&D for RPG sales and it has been much more popular overseas than in the US for various business reasons. It's a solid game that will do very well if supported properly.
RMS said:Decurio said:Strom said:
Give it shot, you might like it...
It's also very inaccurate. RQ may now be a "fringe game" since it's 15 years out of print, though this can be debated since it's descendents are still going strong, like Stormbringer and CoC. However, for a long time it was 2nd only to D&D for RPG sales and it has been much more popular overseas than in the US for various business reasons. It's a solid game that will do very well if supported properly.
I would be very surprised if it outsold Conan here at Mongoose. I would bet money it doesn't. I would put it in the Lone Wolf category. The fact that it is non-D20 will only support my claim. It may be a very good system - I remember not being impressed by the system from back in the day. Conan doesn't need RQ - but RQ could need Conan and that may be the reasoning behind this rumor. Sure hope it doesn't happen.
GbajiTheDeceiver
Mongoose
I don't just suppose it, I positively suspect it.Turloigh said:
Who knows what WoTC are going to do with the d20 license in the future? RQ will be a highly portable system which Mongoose own and control, and will give them the opportunity to concentrate more on the Good Stuff in their products, and less on fitting things into tedious unnecessary mechanics.
If you don't know the system, you shouldn't knock it. Think about a system that let's you create the precise character you want, without having to plan out feat progression trees in advance. Think about no classes, no levels, complete and unrestricted freedom to develop that character in any way. Think about a system with one game mechanic.
And have a look at this.
This system has huge potential to be successful. All it needs is a strong supporting line-up, and it will be. Previous publishers were either too small or did not know how to market it properly. That has now changed. There need not be concerns about it being a "niche" product.
And if you're unhappy at converting to RQ, just ask yourself whether you would feel the same about converting to yet another iteration of d20 at some point in the future.
I'm not knocking RQ (I played it once, a long time ago), I just don't think it will work.
The RPG market is pretty much dominated by D20. I don't think D20 is perfect or great, but it gets the job done.
One of the reasons I don't think it will work is because the majority of RPGers grew up playing D&D and they fear change. I'm 39 years old and have played various RPGs; In my travels, I have come across numerous people who refused to try anything other than D&D. This is the same reason, IMHO, that D20 still has the same magic system as D&D. Why they never went to a mana-based system is beyond me. The only reason I can think of is that Wizards didn't want to lose their harcore D&Ders.
The RPG market is pretty much dominated by D20. I don't think D20 is perfect or great, but it gets the job done.
One of the reasons I don't think it will work is because the majority of RPGers grew up playing D&D and they fear change. I'm 39 years old and have played various RPGs; In my travels, I have come across numerous people who refused to try anything other than D&D. This is the same reason, IMHO, that D20 still has the same magic system as D&D. Why they never went to a mana-based system is beyond me. The only reason I can think of is that Wizards didn't want to lose their harcore D&Ders.
I don't like it.
On a personal level, I like d20. All the players in my group know it and we have adapted it to many different games and generes. I want to keep using d20 for my Conan games.
And from a business perspective it feels like they would be jumping the gun. The d20 Conan system is what, about 2 years old now? 2 1/2? It is way to soon to switch to another system. I and many other faithful Mongoose customers have a significant financial investment in a d20 Conan game and would like to see some return on that. Maybe if the game were 5 or 6 year old I might feel diferently but as it is if they intend to switch over their entire product line to another system I feel that that would just be Mongoose shooting themselves in the foot and I would feel really bad about that as Conan is one of their most successful lines.
As a consumer I would expect at the very least for this to be a dual-statted product line. But I have always felt that dual-stated lines split their consumer base and so dilute the game. *shrug* maybe I'm wrong about that.
It just seems to me that Mongoose is eager for a property to help promote their new Runequest system. That is understandable, at this point they have probably converted all the DnD players who are likely to leave WotC for Conan and with this move they might get a few to jump ship to RQ. But as a guy with a shelf full of d20 Conan material I am nervous about the company making my current library obsolete and also about them discontinuing future d20 support.
I hope that all they do is release a RQ Conan sourcebook and then a dual-stated product line. Anything else would feel like a betrayal.
Thats all I got.
On a personal level, I like d20. All the players in my group know it and we have adapted it to many different games and generes. I want to keep using d20 for my Conan games.
And from a business perspective it feels like they would be jumping the gun. The d20 Conan system is what, about 2 years old now? 2 1/2? It is way to soon to switch to another system. I and many other faithful Mongoose customers have a significant financial investment in a d20 Conan game and would like to see some return on that. Maybe if the game were 5 or 6 year old I might feel diferently but as it is if they intend to switch over their entire product line to another system I feel that that would just be Mongoose shooting themselves in the foot and I would feel really bad about that as Conan is one of their most successful lines.
As a consumer I would expect at the very least for this to be a dual-statted product line. But I have always felt that dual-stated lines split their consumer base and so dilute the game. *shrug* maybe I'm wrong about that.
It just seems to me that Mongoose is eager for a property to help promote their new Runequest system. That is understandable, at this point they have probably converted all the DnD players who are likely to leave WotC for Conan and with this move they might get a few to jump ship to RQ. But as a guy with a shelf full of d20 Conan material I am nervous about the company making my current library obsolete and also about them discontinuing future d20 support.
I hope that all they do is release a RQ Conan sourcebook and then a dual-stated product line. Anything else would feel like a betrayal.
Thats all I got.
Like argo, I'm too invested in the Conan RPG to look at a Runequest version. A couple of months ago I started a post here after speculation started floating over at RPG.net (you can search on RANT). Not sure if everyone is retreading old ground or if there are new rumors.
Regardless, I love the Conan RPG. It's what brought me into the d20 fold after pretty much standardizing on GURPS for ALL of my RPGing! It showed me that d20 could be more, in this case a great deal more, than D&D-style fantasy superheroes with magical ornaments.
I've invested in 2 versions of the RPG (one original and 1 Atlantean), a pocket version, the Hyboria's Fxxxx books, a boxed set, and several regional books. This is the first RPG where I intend to buy the complete line and will continue to purchase so long as they keep putting out quality books. (Thank you Vincent Darlage and co.!) I won't be spending a single $1 on a RuneQuest version.
Over the years, I've played GURPS, Rolemaster, Traveller, AD&D, Alternity, Trinity, and I'm sure I'm missing some others. I've yet to find the "silver bullet" game that is inherently superior to all others. So while I can appreciate the enthusiasm of the RuneQuest fans, I don't share it.
Since RQ is supposedly a more rules-light game, I'm not sure what a RQ version of Conan would truly offer anyway. Certainly the non-d20 mechanics material of the Conan sourcebooks isn't going to change if Mongoose is publishing the book. And I suspect the market of gamers who would re-purchase the "fluff" just to have it exist in the same book as RQ mechanics is pretty low.
If Mongoose chooses to maintain the Conan RPG level of support AND provide RQ versions of Conan, fine. If Conan is allowed to die on the vine in favor of the new shiny toy or abandons the OGL rules of the Atlantean Edition, they've lost me as a customer. Since I've started purchasing Babylon 5, Starship Troopers, and Lone Wolf material they'd be missing out on more than just my Conan purchases. (Yes, I'm aware that I'm only a one customer.)
Azgulor
Regardless, I love the Conan RPG. It's what brought me into the d20 fold after pretty much standardizing on GURPS for ALL of my RPGing! It showed me that d20 could be more, in this case a great deal more, than D&D-style fantasy superheroes with magical ornaments.
I've invested in 2 versions of the RPG (one original and 1 Atlantean), a pocket version, the Hyboria's Fxxxx books, a boxed set, and several regional books. This is the first RPG where I intend to buy the complete line and will continue to purchase so long as they keep putting out quality books. (Thank you Vincent Darlage and co.!) I won't be spending a single $1 on a RuneQuest version.
Over the years, I've played GURPS, Rolemaster, Traveller, AD&D, Alternity, Trinity, and I'm sure I'm missing some others. I've yet to find the "silver bullet" game that is inherently superior to all others. So while I can appreciate the enthusiasm of the RuneQuest fans, I don't share it.
Since RQ is supposedly a more rules-light game, I'm not sure what a RQ version of Conan would truly offer anyway. Certainly the non-d20 mechanics material of the Conan sourcebooks isn't going to change if Mongoose is publishing the book. And I suspect the market of gamers who would re-purchase the "fluff" just to have it exist in the same book as RQ mechanics is pretty low.
If Mongoose chooses to maintain the Conan RPG level of support AND provide RQ versions of Conan, fine. If Conan is allowed to die on the vine in favor of the new shiny toy or abandons the OGL rules of the Atlantean Edition, they've lost me as a customer. Since I've started purchasing Babylon 5, Starship Troopers, and Lone Wolf material they'd be missing out on more than just my Conan purchases. (Yes, I'm aware that I'm only a one customer.)
Azgulor
FuryMaster
Mongoose
My local game shop owner jokes that I should own stocks in Mongoose as I'm always in their picking up their products. I own the complete Conan and Babylon 5 product library, along with most of Starship Troopers, Jeremiah, and many other OGL products.
Recently Bab 5 went through some fairly large changes and those were very good and welcome...Bab 5 needed a refit and Mongoose did an awsome job of it. Conan RPG on the other hand does not need a refit or a rewrite in my opinion. If it aint broke don't try to fix it. I have little doubt that RQ will be a good system and I most likely will be buying those some of those products, but I will NOT be buying Conan RQ products.
No matter how good RQ is the fact is that Conan PRG is fantastic and doesn't need to be changed. For me its not an issue of not being able to buy a new Conan library, its just that I won't be doing it. I hope this rumor is false and I sure hope this doesn't portend to other changes such as B5 RQ (cause at that point i'd probably just stop buying mongoose altogether0.
I look forward to seeing what other lisenses Mongoose can get for RQ in the future, mayber Wheel of Time nudge, nudge....I'll buy that kind of stuff up just like i've done with Conan RPG....just leave Conan RPG out of it...please don't mess with a good thing.
Furymaster
Recently Bab 5 went through some fairly large changes and those were very good and welcome...Bab 5 needed a refit and Mongoose did an awsome job of it. Conan RPG on the other hand does not need a refit or a rewrite in my opinion. If it aint broke don't try to fix it. I have little doubt that RQ will be a good system and I most likely will be buying those some of those products, but I will NOT be buying Conan RQ products.
No matter how good RQ is the fact is that Conan PRG is fantastic and doesn't need to be changed. For me its not an issue of not being able to buy a new Conan library, its just that I won't be doing it. I hope this rumor is false and I sure hope this doesn't portend to other changes such as B5 RQ (cause at that point i'd probably just stop buying mongoose altogether0.
I look forward to seeing what other lisenses Mongoose can get for RQ in the future, mayber Wheel of Time
nudge, nudge....I'll buy that kind of stuff up just like i've done with Conan RPG....just leave Conan RPG out of it...please don't mess with a good thing.Furymaster
Mongoose seems to be putting a lot of effort into pushing the new RQ as the Mongoose house system, which leads me to believe that the rumor may be true, but I definitely think a system change runs the risk of splitting the fanbase. The anti-d20 folks may rejoice and flock to the system, but as we've seen from the replies here, they definitely run the risk of turning off current fans.
Hopefully Conan won't end up like Traveller, with a bunch of fans fiercely loyal to some versions of the game while despising others...
Hopefully Conan won't end up like Traveller, with a bunch of fans fiercely loyal to some versions of the game while despising others...
Azgulor said:
FuryMaster said:
Wanted to highlight both these thoughts and say I agree.
IMO a RPG should change its system not only when it has found a new system that works better but also when the old system has run out of steam. I really have no idea weither or not RQ would do a "better" job of running Conan (no experience with RQ I'm sorry to say) however I do know that the d20 Conan system has not run its course yet. I firmly believe that with the AE edition mongoose has created a robust and powerful engine with plenty of depth and I'm not ready to abandon it for the latest hot thing.
Like I said before, in another 3 or 4 years I may feel differently. Then I might be interested in trying something new. But this is now and now is just too soon to switch systems on this product line.
You've gotten that feeling too eh? I must say it seems an intriguing idea. And I was excited to hear that they intend to publish the new RQ as an Open Game system. As a rules junkie I definetly intend to grab a copy of the RQ SRD just to see what it's like. May even give the game a whirl to see if I like it. :lol:Ashigaru said:
But that doesn't mean that Mongoose should retrofit all their old product into their new system for the sake of pushing sales
Crom! Lets hope not! *shudder*
Why buy any product at all after the core rulebook? :roll:Melkor said:
Because some GM (raises hand) would like to spend more time running games and less time writing source material. So we want product that supports our system with minimal effort.
Thats what keeps us spending $$ at the Mongoose store and, consequently, keeps the Mongoose guys fed.
Roll eyes all you want, but buying product beyond the core book has nothing to do with my original post.
The line has 25+ products available for it now, and you could play for years and years without tapping out that potential. NOTHING is suddenly invalidated if no further product is released.
My point being, until something official is stated by the Mongoose crew, I don't think anyone needs to work themselves into a frenzy. It's all conjecture at this point anyway....but worse case scenario, no matter what happens with the D20 Conan line, none of the amazingly-brilliant products that have been produced for it to date suddenly stop working, and the game line is pretty complete as it stands.
The line has 25+ products available for it now, and you could play for years and years without tapping out that potential. NOTHING is suddenly invalidated if no further product is released.
My point being, until something official is stated by the Mongoose crew, I don't think anyone needs to work themselves into a frenzy. It's all conjecture at this point anyway....but worse case scenario, no matter what happens with the D20 Conan line, none of the amazingly-brilliant products that have been produced for it to date suddenly stop working, and the game line is pretty complete as it stands.
Who's in a frenzy? I roll my eyes at your argument because it is sophistry. I can turn it right back around at you "why ask for a new RQ? Are your old RQ books from two decades ago not good anymore? Can't you use the fluff from the d20 Conan line with the old BRP rules and keep playing for years?"
Its a pointless argument.
All I'm saying is that it is bad business to change game systems when the old system still has legs in it. I can always find something about another game system that is better than my current system. Heck, there was a poster who used to hang out on this board a while back, cant remember his name, who loved to rant about how the old TSR Conan game was superior to the current d20 Conan. Its the "grass is greener syndrome".
Far as I know, the d20 Conan line still makes plenty of money, garners critical praise, and has a healthy fan base who are not grumbling about needing a reworking of the rules. For the publisher to switch game engines under those circumstances gives the impression that they are just trying to boost sales of their new product. It makes curent fans feel like they had the rug pulled out from under them. That is bad business.
Bah, now I'm ranting.
Yeah, this is all still a rumor. Time to go do something else and maybe this will all be gone tomorrow.
Later.
Its a pointless argument.
All I'm saying is that it is bad business to change game systems when the old system still has legs in it. I can always find something about another game system that is better than my current system. Heck, there was a poster who used to hang out on this board a while back, cant remember his name, who loved to rant about how the old TSR Conan game was superior to the current d20 Conan. Its the "grass is greener syndrome".
Far as I know, the d20 Conan line still makes plenty of money, garners critical praise, and has a healthy fan base who are not grumbling about needing a reworking of the rules. For the publisher to switch game engines under those circumstances gives the impression that they are just trying to boost sales of their new product. It makes curent fans feel like they had the rug pulled out from under them. That is bad business.
Bah, now I'm ranting.
Yeah, this is all still a rumor. Time to go do something else and maybe this will all be gone tomorrow.
Later.
Melkor said:
I replied to your similar post in the RQ forum as well, but for those who haven't followed that discussion:
The RQ fans seem to be salivating at all of the possible supplements/settings that RQ can receive. If they can play for years using the RQ core rulebook, why the anticipation? Hell, why any anticipation regarding a new version of RQ if their old books are still good?
It's about ongoing support. It's about finding players who have encountered the game. There are people out there who for whatever reason only wish to play in-print games. Or at least want to be able to own a physical copy without paying through the nose on eBay.
I don't know if it was intended or not but you're fostering a straw man argument here. If gamers in general, and d20 gamers in particular, would contently play forever with only their core rulebooks we'd never have seen multiple editions of D&D, the d20 license, the OGL license or 3rd-party publishers such as Mongoose.
Finally, your "the game line is pretty complete" throwaway line towards the end of your post is an opinion that I think few Conan RPG fans share. Only a few of the regions have been explored in any detail (Aquilonia, Westermark, Stygia) and each one has contained game mechanics that have enhanced my game. Could I have played the Conan RPG without them? Sure. Am I glad I have them and have they enhanced my game? You bet.
Azgulor
argo said:
I'm sure Mongoose will agree with you, as they seem to have good business sense. That's why I said earlier that I'd be very suprised if they dropped d20 Conan altogether. If it's still raking in $, and has a loyal fanbase of it's own, I'm sure they'll be happy to continue cashing in on it, regardless of whether they feel RQ would be a better match for the world.
Hey, if I had a vested interest in Mongoose, I'd insist on continuing to publish d20 Conan, if it's really as profitable as this thread is implying. (It may have run it's course, so a change to another system to bring in new customers might be Mongoose's best bet. None of us have the numbers in front of us to really know.) It's like pop music. As a critical listener, I'm free to point out the Britney Spears is a talentless hack all I want, but if I was a record exec I'd be falling all over myself trying to get her signed because I know she produces huge sales!
I have mixed feelings about dual statting, but it'd certainly work for anything that's mostly background, and it's certainly worked in the past just fine. If nothing else, I bet Mongoose could put free RQ pdf conversions for their Conan materials out there and just release a Conan RQ rules adaptation and generate something from it, for a small investment. (I don't personally like this, but if I was desperate enough to play Conan, I'd do it.)
