Random thought of the morning... TL-16

I’d have to believe it is lower than Taiwan. They’ve dropped in many areas. Now they have to import to maintain their tech level.
The US and Japan are the Imperial Research Stations driving up the TL of their neighbors.
Taiwan manufactures US tech, which they import. This is largely due to unions driving out manufacturing jobs.
That manufacturing capability COULD come back and the US COULD produce the chips - and considering the hostilities of totalitarians in the area, that needs to happen sooner rather than later. There is a difference between lost tech and outsourcing to promote an ally.
 
That's simply racist xenophobic nonsense that has been debunked repeatedly year after year. That's the same accusation leveled at the Japanese in the 1980's.
I can’t recall anything debunking the claim about Chinese IP theft. Do you have any links to such? I’d like to see the other half of the argument.
 
That's simply racist xenophobic nonsense that has been debunked repeatedly year after year. That's the same accusation leveled at the Japanese in the 1980's.
Except it hasn't been. I don't care what race they are, objectively they are spending large amounts of their resources to dig into other countries computer systems, and then they come out with designs similar to the ones they just obtained through infiltration and espionage.

As part of the reconstruction, we provided Japan with tech, material and advisors. One of those advisors, who US companies ignored, was Deming, and he lit a fire under Japan.
 
Last edited:
That's simply racist xenophobic nonsense that has been debunked repeatedly year after year. That's the same accusation leveled at the Japanese in the 1980's.

If that is the case then why isn't the same claim being made about the Taiwanese who are also ethnically Chinese? They are the primary world-source of superior microchips.
 
Trade code has nothing to do with a world's TL. I just downloaded the latest version of the CRB (what a chore that was, for some reason every page was blank) to check.
Trade codes are derived from a world's characteristics, there is no reason why you can't have TL16+ worlds with poor, non-industrial or other trade codes.
 
Trade code has nothing to do with a world's TL. I just downloaded the latest version of the CRB (what a chore that was, for some reason every page was blank) to check.
Trade codes are derived from a world's characteristics, there is no reason why you can't have TL16+ worlds with poor, non-industrial or other trade codes.

Going all the way back to CT, TL was simply what a Traveller was likely to encounter when on world based on survey data (interpret as necessary).
 
I can’t recall anything debunking the claim about Chinese IP theft. Do you have any links to such? I’d like to see the other half of the argument.
For starters:
The full paper of the Australian Strategic Policy Institute:

On more specific examples, China has the world's first pebble bed nuclear reactor in commercial operation since 2023 and is building the first commercial scale thorium nuclear power plant (a nuclear technology abandoned by the US in the 1970's).

China is also leading in battery technology, explaining the meteoric rise of its EV companies.

One cannot copy what the West doesn't have.

Seriously, if the West is to compete with China then first it needs to get its head out of the sand and stop indulging in these ignorant racist stereotypes. It's why US car manufacturers are panicking after seeing Chinese EV's. It's the 1980's all over again for them except with China now instead of Japan.
 
Too many people conflate disagreeing over socialist positions with racism.
It is simply Lenin's Dog Whistle, meant to shut down discourse.
If you are discussing the actions of a group of people, you are not being racist.
If you are engaging in things like CRT, you are being racist.
 
Trade code has nothing to do with a world's TL. I just downloaded the latest version of the CRB (what a chore that was, for some reason every page was blank) to check.
Trade codes are derived from a world's characteristics, there is no reason why you can't have TL16+ worlds with poor, non-industrial or other trade codes.
I’ll stand by my statements. Tech level doesn’t spring up from a vacuum.
 
Too many people conflate disagreeing over socialist positions with racism.
It is simply Lenin's Dog Whistle, meant to shut down discourse.
If you are discussing the actions of a group of people, you are not being racist.
If you are engaging in things like CRT, you are being racist.
Saying an entire ethnicity, the Chinese, cannot innovate and can only copy is racist. The same was said about the Japanese in the 1980's, and they are US allies, so it's not about socialism. Again it is about racism. In World War 2, it was seriously suggested the Japanese could not design or fly good planes since they supposedly had poor eyesight. Over and over again it is the belittling of Asians as somehow being unable to invent, when actually if one surveys ancient technology and history, Asia was probably overall the most innovative and highest tech area on Earth until about the 1400's.
 
Which isn't surprising since it is the principal world-source of the rare-earth elements used in battery manufacture
But we aren't talking about resource abundance or supply, but about the battery technology itself. Other nations around the world also have rare earth elements as they are not that rare actually.
 
For starters:
The full paper of the Australian Strategic Policy Institute:

On more specific examples, China has the world's first pebble bed nuclear reactor and is building the first commercial scale thorium nuclear power plant (a nuclear technology abandoned by the US in the 1970's).

China is also leading in battery technology, explaining the meteoric rise of its EV companies.

One cannot copy what the West doesn't have.

Seriously, if the West is to compete with China then first it needs to get its head out of the sand and stop indulging in these ignorant racist stereotypes. It's why US car manufacturers are panicking after seeing Chinese EV's. It's the 1980's all over again for them except with China now instead of Japan.
China leads in EV's because it controls the materials.
Reread your post: China is more advanced because it is using tech, fully developed but abandoned by the US in the 70's. The "environmentalists" were successful in killing US nuclear power. That is a cultural thing, not a tech thing. China took OUR tech and is using it. With their track record, probably with little concern for people or the environment.
Batteries? Our tech, their materials.
There is a reason China claims the IP of any country allowed to do business with them, and it is not because they are doing the research on their own.
Even COVID was developed with illegal US funding. (Those involved seriously need to go to jail)

Japan embraced the quality control culture of Deming. It meshed well with existing Japanese cultural norms. This was the root cause of their boom. Complacent CEO's in the US were in denial. This is a different situation than China
 
Last edited:
The Japanese from the Meiji Restoration onward have literally had explicit policies for sending people abroad - students, academics, military officers - in order to find out how things are done in other countries and imitate them. After WWII, it shifted from military to commercial emphasis, run by an actual Ministry of Trade and Industry (MITI), which had close connections to industrial conglomerates. China has also done this, in the post WWII period starting with the Soviet Union, but that ended when they fell out. Since the 1980s, they've been sending students and academics abroad, and really pushing hard university exchanges, even funding some institutes in the West, so they can send their people to them to work with western academics. It is an explicit technology and expertise copying strategy, and doing it in ways assuring feedback between foreign contacts, local research and company product development in the Japanese case. In China's case, there's also been a lot of emphasis on cutting edge research.

This is not necessarily anything really shady. While there can be industrial espionage as part of it - mostly its just buying tech, learning by working with those on the cutting edge, and paying to have students enrolled in foreign universities. It is different from what goes on in less organized countries, in that they really try to make sure the tech is useful and that it gets used.

Japan doesn't really do copying as such any more, since they're now one of the most advanced countries, and China is also starting to get to where it is no longer useful This is a big crisis for many western universities who've been milking that tuition cow, as Chinese students more and more decide to go to university in China.
 
Saying an entire ethnicity, the Chinese, cannot innovate and can only copy is racist. The same was said about the Japanese, and they are US allies, so it's not about socialism. Again it is about racism.
"Ethnicities" don't innovate. Countries do. China is the name of a Country and it's associated central-controlled government .
 
I’ll stand by my statements. Tech level doesn’t spring up from a vacuum.
It does when generating worlds using the CRB.

Trade codes have no affect what so ever on a world's TL, they are derived after the world's UWP.

Low population digits get a bonus to TL.
 
Last edited:
Saying an entire ethnicity, the Chinese, cannot innovate and can only copy is racist. The same was said about the Japanese, and they are US allies, so it's not about socialism. Again it is about racism.
There is a difference between saying they cannot and saying they are not.
The majority of Chinese advancements are due to IP theft and espionage.
Anyone can make innovations. The CCP has made a major industry out of stealing tech.
Again, there is a difference between judging people by their actions and judging them by ethnicity.
Japan's boom was because they embraced Deming. Lies to the contrary WERE racist.
China has been repeatedly caught with their fingers in other people's pies. It is a major industry with the CCP. Stating that FACT is not racist. It is judging them by their actions. Saying that judging them by their actions is racist, because you disagree with that FACT is Lenin's Dog Whistle.
You are pointing out the opposition for an angry mob or trying to stifle discourse.
 
Last edited:
It does when generating worlds using the CRB.

Trade codes have no affect what so ever on a world's TL, they are derived after the world's UWP.

Low population digits get a bonus to TL.
Which makes sense, since a small colony needs to finesse their environment with innovative solutions, because they haven't the resources to brute force it.
 
It's in human nature to steal stuff, if they think they can get away with it.

That's why, as an example, martial art schools tended to be very secretive.

It's the concept and protection of intellectual property that ensured a more orderly distribution of knowledge.
 
It does when generating worlds using the CRB.
Which is one of the worst creation methods known to Charted Space. Just look at the mess that is every sector map created by random rolls.
Trade codes have no affect what so ever on a world's TL, they are derived after the world's UWP.
Agreed, but that makes no sense realistically since trade drive innovation. More trade should mean more advanced tech since more ideas are being transmitted from place to place. Plus, everyone knows that the Trade Codes are a poorly written hold over from previous editions. Why does the High Technology Trade Code exist? This is already covered by the TL part of the UWP. Same with high and low pop worlds. Why is Barren a Trade Code? Isn't this already covered by the UWP Pop digit of zero? Non-Industrial is defined, in the CRB, as having too low of a population to maintain an extensive industrial base, but only applies to Pops 4-6. Low pop isn't considered Non-Industrial even though it has less people than a Non-Industrial world. Why isn't a Low-Pop world automatically Non-Industrial as well? It makes no sense.
Low population digits get a bonus to TL.
This means that low population worlds are more likely to have a higher tech base than larger, more developed worlds. This backs up My point that lower population worlds have an easier time maintaining high tech infrastructure.

Tech Level, "The Tech Level measures the average technology presence on the planet and gives an idea of local production and repair capability."

This is what I have been saying
 
Back
Top