Terry Mixon
Emperor Mongoose
Doing a search of TL-16 worlds with that setting shows the ones mentioned, but explicitly labels them as unreviewed. That means that even that might be subject to change at some point.
Random thought of the morning... TL-16
- Thread starter MasterGwydion
- Start date
paltrysum
Emperor Mongoose
These two and the aforementioned Vincennes are the only three canonical TL-16 worlds in the Imperium in the Charted Space (1105) setting. There's also TL-17 Sabmiqys, but you don't want to go there. Very dangerous.
And you could argue that Vincennes is the only bona fide, functional TL-16 world since it isn't a low-pop science community like the Imperial Research Station on Pashus or the "mad-scientist community" on Gannvair.
Sigtrygg
Emperor Mongoose
Mongoose has the Knightfall pdf for sale, want to buy it and see if any of the UWPs have changed...
Sigtrygg
Emperor Mongoose
I do not consider the Third Imperium book canonical for the OTU, only for the MgT ATU. There are just too many differences between it and the Third Imperium as detailed pre-Mongoose.
Nor do I think the Massilia worlds were TL15 in 1105 and achieved TL16 by 1120, it is more likely that the insetting 1105 data was out of date awaiting the next survey of the Imperium.
Terry Mixon
Emperor Mongoose
As it is the currently published universe, by the sole owner of the Traveller property, the MgT is the OTU. These previously published products are for sale, yes, but you won't see official expansions on them. They--and their settings--are a dead letter and by default they are the Alternate Traveller Universe now. You might not like it--and I won't say you're wrong to feel that way--but it is what it is.
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Terry Mixon
Emperor Mongoose
I don't need to. As I just said, it's a legacy product and not official for the current product line. It doesn't matter what it says as it isn't canon anymore. I'm sorry if that hurts, but that is the way it is.
Terry Mixon
Emperor Mongoose
That’s your call. We all have to do what feels right and makes us happy.So 40 years of setting goes in the bin for badly researched new stuff - no thanks
Looks like I will have to forget the 1105 era and move on to 1120, both the Rebellion setting and the parallel universe of GT.
Sigtrygg
Emperor Mongoose
Is there any point in mentioning anything not printed by Mongoose, since the OTU is now theirs and the previous 40 years don't matter?
T5 suggests that between the Ancient's war and the rise of the Vilani there was at least one major civilisation. While this civilisation never invented jump drive they still had a huge presence throughout charted space. There are hints that this race may have achieved well beyond TL16, they may even have achieved the singularity and are still around in some form or other.
"There was a time, after the Ancients and before the rise of Humaniti, when another intelligent race – the Kursae – rose to technological power (*), reached the stars, and then faded to obscurity(**).
From an unidentified homeworld somewhere in now-Charted Space, these sophonts reached out and settled nearly five thousand worlds across half the galaxy. Over the next thousand centuries (***) these many worlds of
the Kursae all followed a common path: a downward spiral to a comfortable low technology level where they are today…
sharing a common heritage of myths about their past.(**)
What drove these enigmatic sophonts, filled with such potential, to reject expansion and abandon growth and instead
embrace a simple static existence?(****)"
* the timescale and hints suggest they achieved the singularity as detailed in T5
**both of these statements could indicate the singularity
*** 100,000years, nearly ten times the timescale the Vilani have been spacefaring
**** the sources about the Kursae are scant, some say they have vanished entirely, some say there are descendants on some worlds, this may be yet more evidence of singularity.
My personal head canon builds on what I think lead to the Droyne and the Ancients.
Elsewhere in the galaxy there are races that are millions if not billions of years old, or at least what passes for them now. This race or these races have conducted galactic scale competition against each other, and have also conducted grand experiments. What we now call charted space and its immediate surrounding area of the galaxy was either chosen to be seeded or seeded by accident with the multidimensional technology now called psionics. On the homeworld of the chirpers this resulted in Grndfather and he created the Droyne as augmented chirpers.
He eventually, through his children and grandchildren, became aware that he was living in a petri dish, so he took steps to compete with the greater powers.
He spread humanity and the Vargr throughout charted space - his precog machines indicated that these races would be critical to his future within the galaxy.
When the Kursae arose they must have encountered humanity, the Vargr, the Droyne and chirpers, and yet human et al history hardly mentions the Kursae - did Grandfather ensure the safety of his chosen races while allowing the Kursae civilisation to run its course, and hiding Ancient presence from them? or did the Kursae learn of the Ancients and build on their works until they achieved something Grandfather avoids, the singularity.
WHULorigan
Emperor Mongoose
MasterGwydion
Emperor Mongoose
Kursae! Good call!
By 1105 there are 3 TL 16 worlds By 1116 about 10% of the TL 15 worlds are TL 16. So a lot depends on the time frame if your talking before this year than no there are no TL 16 worlds since at that time the current time line was before 1105 this year they advanced the time line to 1107 so yes there are a few by the same point the Rebellion traditionally starts in 1116
MasterGwydion
Emperor Mongoose
Vincennes became TL-16 in 1,089 3I. I am using the default timeline of 1,105. Also, I am talking about worlds that were once TL-16, but are no longer TL-16.
Which as has been stated there is only one. And I stated that there were 3 by 1105 which I do believe is after 1089 unless math has changed in the last 40 years
MasterGwydion
Emperor Mongoose
Your math is flawed. I asked for civilizations that had reached TL-16 but had then regressed to below TL-16 or to extinction. (Hence the answer that I am looking for is not for current TL-16 civilizations, but for civilizations that are no longer TL-16) The only one I was aware of before was the Darrians, and thanks to a post above, the Kursae (spelling?)
So according to you 1105 doesn’t come after 1089? I think you need to go back to school.
The Kursae is questionable since there’s few references as to their tech level and they never develop jump. They did regress but did they get to TL 16 possibly but questionable.
Terry Mixon
Emperor Mongoose
Two of the three can't be real. 10,000 asteroid miners couldn't get there and support it. The other is a poor, nonindustrial world with 80k people that doesn't have the industry to support TL-16. Only Vincennes seems to have created a supportable tech base. The other two are either erroneous or are bleed over from the advanced work done by a small group of people in each system.
And the OP is right that none of this back and forth answered his original question.
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Arkathan
Emperor Mongoose
Someone is having a gross conceptual error, and it is not the person who asked the original question.
What he is telling you is that your argument is completely irrelevant to the discussion at hand, since the planets you list are "now" or are yet to become TL16. NOT planets that FELL after becoming TL 16, which is what he is looking for.
J. L. Brown
Emperor Mongoose
Does the Sindalian Empire count? They were high tech, and in the adventure
MakerGod they had built a TL-16 planetary AI -- and a largish TL-16 warship for a copy of it to live in.
MasterGwydion
Emperor Mongoose
Not sure if they count since I think their TL-16 stuff was prototype stuff. All of the other Sindali Tech that has been printed is TL-15. Any TL-14 civ can build prototype TL-16 tech.
