Problematic canonish technology

Well if you go by the mongoose High Guard I have questions? Things get very interesting...

From the wiki "If" the Annic Nova had a Hieronymous Device: (a pre-Hop drive 1 prototype like device) which it is heavily hinted at. Then at least with this prototype the ship is now TL16 if not 17 I'm sure the "Imperium 3I" would like to get the collector as well back doored into 3I! I asked about the "Nexus Linkage Device" which is used in T5, using this and multiple jump drives on rails from frelance traveller you could jump upwards of a jump 9. and works with the jump station TAS.

Hieronymous Device​

A Hieronymous Device is a fabled Artifact which allows two separate jump drives to be used together for dramatically better performance.

Contents​

Description (Specifications)​

The device allows two jump drives to be used together with an exponential effect.


  • A Jump-3 and a Jump-2 drive would allow for (...three to the second power) Jump-9 travel.
  • A pair of Jump-6 drives would allow for (...six to the sixth power) Jump-46,656 travel, almost enough to jump from Terra to the nearby Greater Magellanic Cloud galaxy, and far more than enough to reach the Milky Way Galaxy from the Canis Major Overdensity. Assuming the device can only link two Jump drives (not Hop Drive or more advanced), this would be the highest possible performance, and even then only using drop tanks or advanced drives that need less fuel: since both drives must be fueled, a pair of Jump-6 drives would normally require 120% of the ship's mass in fuel.
It is not known what technology level such a device would be.

History & Background (Dossier)​

It is believed that the derelict Annic Nova class Far Trader may have once used such a device with a Jump-3 and a Jump-2 drive. It is unknown who now possesses this artifact, if it still exists (...assuming it ever did), and if it was limited to working only with those specific drives.

Technological Overview of Alternate FTL Devices​


References & Contributors (Sources)​

Hieronymous Device/meta​

Hieronymous Device Metadata
  • It must be stressed that this legendary Device is first mentioned in the Galaxiad and thus must be taken with a grain of salt. Where the researchers, writers, directors and producers found this plot prop or trope is subject to debate. Though only one known appearance of the Hieronymous Device is identified and named such, it likely falls in other story lines under other names in myriad languages.
  • It is conjectured that the Hieronymous Device is a radically advanced version of the Nexus Linkage Device and enhances two drives of the same type, making one the exponent of the other's rating as opposed to the Nexus being merely additive. Such Tech Levels breach TL-16 at the earliest.
  • It is guessed that the Hieronymous Device most known in the Galaxiad was mistaken for a Nexus Linkage Device found aboard the legendary Annic Nova derelict starship discovered in the Golden Age circa 1105.
  • It may be the Hieronymous Device was responsible for heralding the Pastoral Age breakthrough discovery of Hop-1 drive capability by further understanding of the interplay of two like fields, (Jump Bubble in this case).
  • It is not known if the Hieronymous Device, perhaps found aboard the Annic Nova, is the only one of its kind. The starship and its other wonders were of no known Race's creation.
  • The Galaxiad nature of this topic lends itself to discredit due to the tendency for dramatization and thus comes under further scrutiny despite the later discovery of Hop-1.

Nomenclature​

  • Note that Hieronymous is a misspelling, perhaps a quirk of Anglic that has changed the name Hieronymus, as in Hieronymus Bosch, to an adjective via a suffix. This can lead to further linguistic debate whether the Hieronymous Device is likened to Bosch's artwork in melding two disparate subjects of the same Kingdom into a chimera-like system, each enhanced and hindered by the contributing subjects.
 
Vormaerin said:
I am well aware that you can do whatever you want in your home campaign. My campaign is not canon either. But there's no discussion to be had about peoples' personal campaigns. Do whatever works for you. Let your players have FGMPs if you want. Restrict everyone to Tech 10. I don't care. None of that has any bearing on how the setting says it works.

As for the LASH/UNREP system of freighthauling, I think that works pretty well in the setting as written even without Collectors. Though a lot of the efficiency would diminish if you could have high jump ships without the huge fuel demand. IMHO, the main utility would be in your large ship being able to skip visits to all the podunk worlds along the way to its real destination. Jump in, swap lighters/refuel from a tanker, jump out a day or so later.

But, as I said in that thread on trade, there's lots of viable paradigms for how trade works even limited to the context of the Third Imperium setting. What you are talking about would probably work fine. Especially if highports are rare. Which seems to be the case in the Third Imperium setting.
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Even if it's in the 3I OTU, like one of my campaigns, the tech is there. It's in the canon OTU.
Your vanilla TU may vary, but that's your universe.
 
@alex_greene Which is my point? They introduce a bunch of tech and then act like it doesn't exist. Adding the tech doesn't bother me. Putting the tech in optional rules actually pleases me. Adding it to the setting and then ignoring it ever after annoys me.

@Subzero001 The Annic Nova adventure specifically states that the two drives work independently and you can't sum their ratings. The collectors on the ship can store enough power for both, but you have to use them consecutively. So you could Jump 5 over two weeks. But that's it.
 
I first encountered the Hieronymus drive/nexus when MWM explained the secret history of the Annic Nova in a podcast interview.
A Vilani merchant/scout misjumped and were rescued by an advanced rave that lacked the jump drive. They reverse engineered the jump drive, improved it and built the Hieronymus Nexus for the ship. He mentioned that the crew was seriously injured which caused me to speculate that the crew may well have been rebuilt too.
When they returned to Vilani space they revealed the secrets of improved jump 1 technology, and jump 2, but kept jump 3 and the Hieronymus Nexus as a "family secret".
Soon after the Vilani upgraded to jump 2, stagnted their society and launced the Consolidation War campaign that would last a thousand years, at the end of which they declared the Grand Empire or Ziru Sirka.
Interesting factoid - St Jerome (Jerome drive - stutterwarp) has the family name Hieronymus, and the name Hieronymus translates to Jerome in English.
 
@Vormaerin : your talking of how the Annic Nova currently functions and I was referring to a "Black Box / Mucguffin" that they don't know how to make function again. Like most "ancient" products found as well.

In the game I was in we sold it to the Zhodani for a pretty hefty price since our game was heavy in psionics and that was the "secret" to get the device to function again. They were interested in the "collector" as well for their Jump carriers/transports for their jump riders and such war efforts / exploration. We then sold the information to the Darians and they reacquired it with our assistance and are experimenting with it as we speak. Our group aquired Neutralizer Barbette ship weapons for our ships "upgraded mazer tech that affects the brains like a psionic attack" in essence we became a testing group/partner in high tech items. Our group of "mercs/traders" were later highered to high jack an unknown design ship for the Imperium which ended up being a "hop drive" ship that lost against the "empress wave" and miss jumped into the fringes of Zho space. We later were tracking "Zid Rachele" scenario / adventure to a navy depot and interupted his rising/escape of several Imperial ships and high tech. We found several prototype "hop drive" tech some installed in Lightning class ship test beds at the Depot as well as prototype antimatter power plants etc... and the "black prince" prototype cruiser ship from T20 "our version had a protoype hop drive and the antimatter power-plants along with prototype psionic devices". As far as the Imperium is concerned the "Zid Rachele" group escaped with a good amount of prototype and TL 14-15 and some TL16-17 ships to Zho/dog space and is plotting a take over of the 3I in the near future... Pre-fifth frontier war.
 
Rasher said:
Why would you ignore hordes of naked people
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That's the fun thing. I wouldn't, but I doubt Mongoose will be releasing Hordes of Naked People Adventures 1: Fun In The Ship With The Problematic Tech any day now. The editor still isn't returning my calls.
 
Maybe if there's a High Guard 2024 Update, they could include the Hieronymous Drive in the chapter with all the problematic tech. Maybe they could also address the Jump fuel issue, too, and bring in the FreeTrav Lyman Drive as another option. Make that canon.
 
Vormaerin said:
I wouldn't say 'wreck the balance of power'. More

lol. it also says you can't expend thrust. I don't consider not moving 500m off the side of space station "travel" in a way that being attached to said station externally isn't. Unless the actual intention is that you accelerate, turn off the M-Drive, and cruise around to scoop up exotic particles. :D
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So we disagree. That is fine, though again your last sentence is my impression of intent.
 
That's fine. I'm not sure how that would work as a distinction, since just "sitting" in orbit is motion. But I'm sure someone in a universe with Collectors will have figured out the minimum necessary velocity to trigger the collectors and figured out "parking" motion to accomodate that. And then you'd probably have something like LASH or UNREP as the standard way of transferring cargo, whichever is more efficient given the residual motion requirements decided upon.
 
Vormaerin said:
That's fine. I'm not sure how that would work as a distinction, since just "sitting" in orbit is motion. But I'm sure someone in a universe with Collectors will have figured out the minimum necessary velocity to trigger the collectors and figured out "parking" motion to accomodate that. And then you'd probably have something like LASH or UNREP as the standard way of transferring cargo, whichever is more efficient given the residual motion requirements decided upon.
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Which would increase the cost of loading the ship and does not solve the need for the crew shore leave and time on dock to actually secure the cargo etc...
 
A jump drive that is not jumping is a waste of space.
An m-drive that is not thrusting is a waste of space.

The big players likely operate jump ships with minimal m-drives that jump from 100D limit to 100D limit. They offload crew, passengers, and cargo, then take on board a new crew, new passengers, new cargo, and refuel.

The job of the system support craft is to transport all the outbound stuff to the 100D limit and bring all the inbound stuff back.

Rather than one jump per fortnight yo can likely get one jump per eight days.
 
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Sigtrygg said:
A jump drive that is not jumping is a waste of space.
An m-drive that is not thrusting is a waste of space.

The big players likely operate jump ships with minimal m0drives that jump from 100D limit to 100D limit. They offload crew, passengers, and cargo, then take on board a new crew, new passengers, new cargo, and refuel.

The job of the system support craft is to transport all the outbound stuff to the 100D limit and bring all the inbound stuff back.

Rather than one jump per fortnight yo can likely get one jump per eight days.
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I guess it comes down to whether the ships follow patterns analogous to a waterborne freighter or an airplane. The rules for independent ships (largely what is presented in the core rulebook and HG) is closer to a freighter. That said there is no reason a corporation could not treat it closer to an airline model for the larger more established routes.

I think this is a reflection of the fact that the big corporations and freighters follow different rules from the margin/fringe ships that PCs would generally be on. We also have to accept that the rules, including exotic technology, are not meant to be realistic but instead reflect a background upon which we can have our stories. If all of this were "reality" then the true evolution and impact of all these things would likely be extremely different from what any of us are guessing.

Taken in the abstract, looking at technology available today, waterborne freighters should be catamarans using toroidal propellers with hybrid electric engines and power should be predominately solar and nuclear.
 
That is, at the core, the problem with most 'analysis' built off the mechanics. They are designed to reflect indie tramp trade, not the bulk trade. Equally importantly, Traveller's whole sector/world design structure is built around creating worlds for adventuring. That's why it makes so many backwaters.

How big the bulk freighters are and how they operate is pretty much all GM purview, as there is nothing in the game rules to cover that side of things. Even GURPS Far Trader, which at least addresses the existence of corporate trade, pretty much just says: "They exist, they suck up all the good trade. Here' what's left for the PCs to scrabble after."

And we don't have anywhere near enough information to make solid predictions about how it would actually work. For me, I look at the following concepts and work from there:
1) Jump fuel requirements make high jump freighters uneconomical, so they only exist on special routes that can charge a high premium
2) Bulk freighters want to spend as little time as possible in backwaters (anything with less than 8 pop and a B starport).
3) Most systems have colonies and stations all over the place, not just one one planet.

I happen to think that makes big ships that haul standardized lighters of various sorts (cargo, passenger, etc), jump in system near their corporate space station, refuel from a tanker while trading off lighters/crew with the station, and moving on asap.

But you could easily have other principal concepts while still fitting into the 3I paradigm.
 
Just going to revive this old thread with a look at some basic assumptions which can be used in your own non-OTU settings, or brought in somehow to the OTU to screw around with the old skool fans.
(1) Jump / Hop / Skip Without Fuel
What if FTL no longer required fuel to spit out a big blob of boiling hydrogen gas into which the ship sits for a week while travelling in Jumpspace? Maybe add +3 to the TL for each Jump to come up with a Jump drive which no longer consumes fuel - just draws power from the power plant.
(2) Maximum Plant Sizes
What if Jump, Manoeuvre, and Power each consumed no more than 10% each of the ship's hull, a total of 30% of any ship's mass being devoted to Engineering? The higher the TL, the more they could coax out of the drives, without consuming more mass for higher J- or M-levels?
(3) No Separate Fuel Tank
What if the power plant had all the power needed to keep the ship going for, oh, four weeks at a time, and refuelling were a background event taking place every time the ship visited port?
(4) The Power Plant Generates More Than Enough Power For Everything
What if the power plant produced enough energy for every system - M-drive, Jump, life support, weapons - and characters never had to budget power points in a ship combat?
(5) Power Plant Black Box
What if it were unnecessary for the Travellers to even know, or care, about how the Power Plant generates energy for the ship's systems? For all you know, there could be Zero-Point energy in there, or a million hamsters running inside little wheels, or a rubber band which has to be cranked.
(6) Zero-Point Energy
As a ref, you can get away with having Zero-Point energy as a primary source of power. No separate fuel tanks, costs the same as fusion, produces 200 points per ton, and it's jumpstarted with exotic particles gathered from a Collector canopy.
(7) Stationary Motherships
Let's say your TU ship design philosophy runs something along the lines of having big motherships (minimum size 20kt) Jumping between systems, and smaller ships and boats hitching a ride on those behemoths, with some ships being considerably bigger than the others, Hopping between subsectors or Skipping from sector to sector, and your Travellers' ship being one of those just coming in at the minimum size to host your own Jump drive, enabling your ship to travel within the subsector, making trade and carrying passengers and mail.
(8) The Discovery Of Spacefolding Drive
Your Travellers are in on the start of a new era in space travel: a Spacefolding drive which operates exactly the same way as described in High Guard, which is jumpstarted with particles gathered via a Collector. Its range is almost unlimited - though travel to unexplored systems does require a little time to chart and plot a course, and the time is reduced if there are systems nearby which your Travellers had already visited.
The Travellers could witness galactic changes as war virtually ceases overnight, the trade game is drastically altered to bring end-stage capitalism to a final end, and Humaniti comes several giant steps closer to becoming a Type II civilisation.
 
In my various Traveller games I have:
mixed jump drive and stutterwarp
used hyperdrives and warp drives
stargates, portal networks, jump gates (note jump portal networks are canon in T4), wormhole generators
scrapped all fuel requirements
used jump fuel requirement as reaction mass
antimatter power plants
black hole power plants
Guild Highliners
data casting to transfer personality/memory to cloned or synthetic bodies over interstellar distances
others that I would have to remind myself of.
 
There's lots of cool alternate tech. You can use Traveller to play a wide range of sci fi styles. The idea that Traveller is a game about the OTU is pernicious, imho. I've used Traveller for "Earth 2" type games where there were it was sleeper ships and no going back type colony worlds. I could easily see using the Naval Campaign guidelines to do a Star Trek-ish game, though that's not my cup of tea so I haven't.

And you have the Zimm drive in Earth/Clement sector games, Mindjammer's planing engines in that Traveller alternate setting, and 2300's stutterwarp just talking about published worlds that use the Traveller rules (or Cepheus, which is close enough as to no difference). Several of those games don't use fuel or change how fuel is used in major ways.

None of that is a problem at all. I would love *rulebooks* that covered alternate techs for other kinds of settings. But if you are writing for the Third Imperium setting (ie a sector book or other setting book, not a general Traveller rule book), write the stuff that fits that setting. Just like if you are publishing a Conan setting, you don't have laser pistols. Not because barbarians and laser pistols don't make a cool world, but because it doesn't make a Conan world.
 
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