Dead Blue Clown
Mongoose
Voriof said:
I was thinking about this last night. I'd offer to help if I wasn't so freaking busy, Jeff. Not that you actualy need my help in any way, but it's a helluva task and I wish you luck with it.
Potential errata required to CoG1
- Thread starter gamesmeister
- Start date
I was thinking about this last night. I'd offer to help if I wasn't so freaking busy, Jeff. Not that you actualy need my help in any way, but it's a helluva task and I wish you luck with it.
Dead Blue Clown
Mongoose
Coleoptra said:But what I hear here is that Voriof is making an errata? That is brilliant. No need for more complaining then!
...at least until we see the errata!
Trif.
Your current avatar is the cutest bug ever.
weasel_fierce wrote:
soltakss wrote:
Yes you can, but you first have to make one of two choices;
1.Use the default deity 'types'
The option gives you gods a good array of spell, but doesn't really give you a Gloranthan flavour for the god concerned, and in some cases inverts their nature.
or
2.Trying to piece together from the text and the lists (but including common divine magic) the cults 'correct' spell list:
However such lists are short, some major deities have little more than two or three spells. But what is there is closer to the Gloranthan feel of the deity in question.
The quality of the writing is good, just the cult spell/skill lists have gone a miss.
soltakss wrote:
Yes you can, but you first have to make one of two choices;
1.Use the default deity 'types'
The option gives you gods a good array of spell, but doesn't really give you a Gloranthan flavour for the god concerned, and in some cases inverts their nature.
or
2.Trying to piece together from the text and the lists (but including common divine magic) the cults 'correct' spell list:
However such lists are short, some major deities have little more than two or three spells. But what is there is closer to the Gloranthan feel of the deity in question.
Only the cult listings and spell definition (or lack thereof) seem affected - The errors are just annoying/confusing, but it is not far from being riddled...
I still think it is worth buying, spells are bought in to line with MRQ and cult bonuses are interesting additions, but it does need Erata badly (which it sounds like we'll be getting) to make it worth using in its current state.
The quality of the writing is good, just the cult spell/skill lists have gone a miss.
Dead Blue Clown said:
Nope. You're busy. I'll have spare cycles after the 15th when I have to have the student's grades handed in. Exams started on Wednesday.
I'll definitely be keeping an eye on the spell lists but also the associations - which are important from a Gloranthan standpoint. I'm happy to use alternate spells as times do change. For ecxample, the Hero Wars era Vinga doesn't have Pathfinder Magic but a lot of vengance magic. Second Age Vinga is more about the exploring.
Jeff
Dead Blue Clown
Mongoose
It's definitely a keeper.
Voriof said:
Several years? Not here then.
Besides even if you find my posting behaviour less than optimal, it still doesn't take away the point from my comment. I'm not claiming to be perfect, but reactions like that are just picking a fight.
While I'm reasonably fluent in the english language, I'm not a native. I suspect that sometimes my words may come accross as sharper than they are meant because of that. Let's remember that the Internet tend's to have that effect anyway.
I do wonder what I've said or done to deserve such anger. It must have been really something.
Adept said:
No, not here.
Since you asked:
My name is Jeff Kyer. I run the HeroQuest-RPG list and help moderate the HeroQuest-rules list. You've been at the heart of many of the flame wars and heated there for the past many years. Only Peter Metcalfe and David Boatright have caused as much strife there as you have.
Approximately two hundred posts complaining that Shadowcats in HQ aren't as cool as the ones in RuneQuest that went on for YEARS have left a very bad impressing or any of a dozen other one-sided discussions I could name. And in many cases, you began these arguments without even having read the material in question yourself but were going off on the warpath based on hearsay.
Sitting in judgement over something you haven't even bothered to read is very much a pet peeve of mine. To be honest, iIf you'd actually read the works before you slam them, I'd have more respect for your commentary.
Since I am not constrained by being a moderator here, I suppose I am simply saying what *I* feel for a change. You, sir, are very fond of saying what you feel - and your words often appear very condesending and insulting.
Since you asked. But I will leave off now. I've said my piece.
Jeff
P.S. Can we get back to discussing things that might need errata in CoG1 (and CoG2 for those who have it?). Thanks.
Yes. Explaining the subtle points of theology behind an association is possible only in long-desc cults. The question is "How many years will we have to wait for long-desc cults ?"
That's a problem and a truth.
Could someone with some authority on the subject make a summary of what have been already posted and validated as an error.
How is it that some seems to get the books much earlier than other (Magic of Glorantha in another post, CoG2 in this one) ?
Also, why are you people complaining so much about RQIII Cults of Glorantha ? It is my most used book and I don't know much of errors in it.
Yoda300 said:
Preorders go out very, very early. From what others have said, it appears that they go out at the same time the distributors are sent their copies.
As to what is and is not an error due to editing, rules changes, or writer brain-farts, is going to have to wait until I put it together - and send it on to Mongoose - I certainly cannot make game or rules related decisions, only Gloranthan ones.
Jeff
There actually is material out there that describes these cults in much greater detail than Cults of Glorantha does (or will ever be able to). Thunder Rebels spends a 100+ pages on just two cults: Orlanth and Ernalda. Storm Tribe is an entire book dedicated only to the other Orlanthi cults. Sometime next year, Moon Design will be releasing a one or two volume Unfinished Work which contains just about all of the non-Sartarite Orlanthi background material that Greg and I have written over the last ten years (including the definitive writeup on the Second Age Hendrikings - The Durengards Scroll). Lots of myths that have never been published and so on.
For the non-Orlanthi cults, the Glorious ReAscent of Yelm, the Fortunate Succession, and the Entekosiad give reams of information about the Dara Happans and other Pelorian cultures. Fortunate Succession gives a fair amount of detail about the Yelm cult in the Second Age. The Middle Sea Empire is another one of Greg's Unfinished Work that gives reams of material on the God Learners and the Zistorites.
For those folk who subscribe to Friends of Glorantha, you can read chapters from Greg's yet unfinished Harmast Saga (which will eventually be published) which gives a wonderful perspective on how Gloranthan magic and myth works.
Finally, if you can get your hands on a copy, Enclosure 1 & 2 have cult materials - including a RQish writeup for the Orlanthi cults that David and I did with much input from Greg.
Any rule system is going to have some problems modeling the diversity and flexibility of Gloranthan cults. If you treat stuff like Cults of Glorantha as guidelines or generalized statements that have lots of local variation to them, you are probably just fine.
The old RQ3 Gods of Glorantha was a fine supplement in its time but it models Gloranthan cults in a very superficial way at best. We've learned a lot about Glorantha in the last twenty years and Greg has written an awful lot since then. I think it is a well edited, well written rules book. As a description of Gloranthan cults, I think it is mediocre at best.
From what I have seen, folk like Jeff and Aaron are doing a good job of balancing the tasks of having a simple and easy to understand "rulesy" writeup of these cults with the task of trying to provide enough information for folk to actually play in Greg Stafford's Glorantha. It is a difficult thing to do and my quibbles about various details are in no way meant to be a criticism of their effort.
Jeff
Thank you for a clear ansver Jeff. I'll just comment briefly, and then drop the subject.
I hope this is at least in part a case of the internet polarizing opinion very sharply. I don't know why I've given the impression of commenting without knowing the material. I own everything offiscially published for Hero Wars / Hero Quest, and while I don't play the game with the offiscial rules, I do use them extensively for my own games.
It seems I have managed to polarize your opinion of me to such an extent, that there's little point in trying to change it. I write as a die hard fan of Glorantha, and one that values the Gloranthan Digest very highly. Too bad that the impression I've managed to give is such a negative one.
As for the product in question here, I've had it pre-orderedd for the longest time, but so far haven't gotten it delivered. The comments from those that have their copy already have worried me a lot, but I haven't cancelled my order.
I hope this is at least in part a case of the internet polarizing opinion very sharply. I don't know why I've given the impression of commenting without knowing the material. I own everything offiscially published for Hero Wars / Hero Quest, and while I don't play the game with the offiscial rules, I do use them extensively for my own games.
It seems I have managed to polarize your opinion of me to such an extent, that there's little point in trying to change it. I write as a die hard fan of Glorantha, and one that values the Gloranthan Digest very highly. Too bad that the impression I've managed to give is such a negative one.
As for the product in question here, I've had it pre-orderedd for the longest time, but so far haven't gotten it delivered. The comments from those that have their copy already have worried me a lot, but I haven't cancelled my order.
Depends on the source - In HQ Esrola is an aspect of Ernalda and ties the Crop and Animal goddess together - but thats a fairly Orlanthi perspective and stuffs the crop goddess for other uses other than Orlanthi.Voriof said:
One thing I found a little confusing is having the Dragon Slayer aspect of Orlanth as a seperate cult (nothing wrong with it - just found it odd).
Anyone got ideas how other 'sub cults' should be implemented - whether they should be seperate entitites or just provide alternative Runespell to Lords/priest but follow the same core as the parent cult.
i.e.
Ohorlanth sub cult of Orlanth Thunderous
No longer provides Thunderstone, but instead grants Thunderbolt
Spells to specific cults only available from the subcults shrine/temples.
(This is how I've set up the cults - extending Voriof's cult templates with the subcults)
Isn't this more down to the popularity of specific sub cults/aspects of the deity - rather than the deity herself dictating what spells are available?Voriof said:
The Orlanthi populace isn't being oppressed/no major battles so few major men folk have been butchered so few reasons to take up the Redwoman and revenge aspects, women who follow Vinga just follow as you say either the Defender Storm or Vinga the scout.
Just a thought...
But as has been said, as a rough overview of the cults what we've got isn't bad (just needs the erata to remove contadictions/clarify stuff).
Game balance; Just, a wee point Babeester Gor is teatering on the side of being a combat monster...
Exubae said:
Yes. Things go in and out of fashion depending on social and spiritual need. The cult of Orlanth Dragonbreaker, like the Jedi, are nearly extinct. Their fire has gone out of the Middle World.... for now.
...for a long desc writeup. Not the <300 words of the CoG descs. As others have said, there's only so much one can do. I dwelt on Vinga as the enabling woman and adventurer - these are roles more likely to appeal to players than the vengeance seeker. The special abilities were to help with the "Defender" aspect too.
...as she always has been. Cast a gander back at RQ3. Since magic point storage in MRQ is more difficult than it was in the days of RQ3, things like Axe Trance are less deadly. That said, Axe Trance has been made less deadly - providing only a +5% bonus for each magic point spent.
Jeff
Yep- far grosser in RQ3- ended up scattering her divine magic across the continent to specific 'aspect' shrines-Voriof said:
Ohh that and blood beer, a cultist could cast 1 point divine magic fine, but subsequent points required the cultist imbibe a pint of blood beer, thereafter on a pint for point basis (4 point spells meant the caster had to have consumed 3 pints of blood beer in the last 24 hours or the spell failed.)
About the only thing that would stop a shielded, Berserked, Axe tranced up psycho-woman Babester Gor-ian with a halberd, was a true dragon or Severspirit.
The new magics for Babeester are far saner/better.
Thinking about re-incorporating Blood Beer in a campaign Im putting together...hence my other post on drinking...
gamesmeister
Banded Mongoose
Voriof said:
Talking of Vinga, this reminds me...
IIRC, her special magic is listed as being the same as Wind Lords / Storm Voices, but there is no mention of who or what they are. Most of us know to turn to Orlanth, but new players of the game might be confused by this.
Depends which Orlanthi you are talking about. In Hendrikiland and Esrolia, the vengeance aspect is much more likely to be found than in Vestmonstran or the East Wilds. Then again, the Hendrikings and Esrolians have a lot of things to avenge - against both the EWF and the Middle Sea Empire.
Jeff
