Potential errata required to CoG1

[Rurik]

I've already said this, but I'll say it again - there is nothing that states this to be true, either in the rules or in CoG. No-one from Mongoose has posted that this is the case, Jeff never intended for it to be handled that way, and in fact it causes far more problems than it solves, so why is it even being considered?

It is stated in the Companion and the Companion SRD. It is under the section Spell Traits and Descriptions, under the sub heading Cult (p. 13 of the book and p. 6 of the SRD). Also, if it does not work this way, then Gloranthan gods have no access to any of the spells in the Companion - nope, no Sunspear.

While I agree with most things you say Rurik, I don't agree with this interpretation.

I know the section you're referring to, it states that (and I'll quote now) "If the cult is listed as 'All', the spell is a utility spell available in all cults." It then goes on to state that it's up to the GM to determine what other spells are available to each cult.

These spells listed as 'All' are the only ones I can find that indicate they are 'common' divine magic. There's nothing that states that other divine magic spells listed in the Companion are common, and indeed by the very fact that they only apply to certain cult types, they're not.

And Sunspear is an excellent example: it is listed as being given to Yelmalions by Yelm, but only to Light Priests and Light Sons - yet Yelmalio has access to all common divine spells. By your interpretation, this is completely pointless. Of course, the problem there is that Yelm isn't listed as having access to Sunspear, and should be errata'd to include it, but I'm fairly certain this was mentioned earlier.

Really, I think we are 99% on the same page, which is that determining what gods get what spells is way more confusing than it should be. It is just this one sticking point.

The full passage is: "The type of cult that offers this spell to its worshippers. If the cult is listed as ‘All’, the spell is a utility spell available in all cults." CoG has specific types listed for most gods that correspond to the spell types in ths Companion.

Regarding Sunspear, another bit supporting my take is that I am pretty sure if you look NO spell listed in the Companion is listed for ANY god in Cults. Note that Yelmalio doesn't have Sunspear listed either - even though Yelm is listed as giving it to him. I believe he has it already as a Sun god, and so then the bit in Yelm does not make sense. This is an example of how the editing muddled the book a bit. Zorak Zoran doesn't get Beserk either, unless he gets it by nature of being Type: War.

I am pretty sure Voriof has more or less confirmed they decided to use god types in Cults even though he was against it.

 

[Voriof]

I am pretty sure Voriof has more or less confirmed they decided to use god types in Cults even though he was against it.

I fear I am more than a little to blame for that. I included them in an earlier draft before I noticed how non-Gloranthan the generic spell lists were. There was a reason the generic deity types were not used in RQ3 for Glorantha even though they were a part of the core rules.

Common Spells: All means all common spells are available to the cult. Seems pretty clear to me. I am not sure what the trouble is.

Jeff

 

[Blackyinkin]

Note that Yelmalio doesn't have Sunspear listed either - even though Yelm is listed as giving it to him. I believe he has it already as a Sun god, and so then the bit in Yelm does not make sense. This is an example of how the editing muddled the book a bit. Zorak Zoran doesn't get Beserk either, unless he gets it by nature of being Type: War.

In the early versions of Yelmalio (RQ2 and RQ3) only the High Priest of a temple has access to Sunspear. Yelm's fire powers were taken from him by Zorak Zoran at the Hill of Gold and bound into the spirit Amanstan, giving Zorak Zoran access to some fiery magics and removing the trollish dislike of fire amongst his worshippers

Simon

 

[Exubae]

In the early versions of Yelmalio (RQ2 and RQ3) only the High Priest of a temple has access to Sunspear.

Yelmalio cound't use any fire based spells (ignite or Fire blade/arrow), I think his worshipers where even bared from wearing red clothing/sleeping under a red blanket.

 

[Voriof]

In the early versions of Yelmalio (RQ2 and RQ3) only the High Priest of a temple has access to Sunspear.

Yelmalio cound't use any fire based spells (ignite or Fire blade/arrow), I think his worshipers where even bared from wearing red clothing/sleeping under a red blanket.

Yes, this is the case - along with a whole lot of other restrictions. They shouldn't have access to fire spells- only Light - except at the highest levels. Which is why the Sun type doesn't work all that well in Gloranthan continuity.

Sankendavu, another Son of Yelm, is more like an undamaged Yelmalio. But doesn't have the gifts and geases. Hmm. One could use the Elmal cult and change the associated magic to the Solar pantheon (which, of course, is why he was was cut - not different enough from Elmal/Yelmalio).

Jeff

 

[Rurik]

Peaceful Cut

Where is it? Did it get cut?

It is listed for Odayla, and mentioned that Initiates must use it on any animal they kill for food - but I can't find it anywhere in the book.

As it is a Rune Spell, does that mean that an Initiate must have the appropriate Rune (whatever that may be - presumably Beast) integrated before they can hunt?

I just noticed this, perhaps there are other Rune Spells mentioned in cult descriptions that are missing.

 

[Voriof]

Peaceful Cut

Where is it? Did it get cut?

Based on some discussion I had with Fordy, I believe its in CoG2

It is listed for Odayla, and mentioned that Initiates must use it on any animal they kill for food - but I can't find it anywhere in the book.

As it is a Rune Spell, does that mean that an Initiate must have the appropriate Rune (whatever that may be - presumably Beast) integrated before they can hunt?

I am not sure. I think its a skill. OR perhaps its simply not in the game.

I wish/hope that my variant about Runes and Cult Initiation made it in.

I just noticed this, perhaps there are other Rune Spells mentioned in cult descriptions that are missing.

I'll try and trap those as best I can. Please, if you see anything like this let me know.

Jeff

 

[Rurik]

I am not sure. I think its a skill. OR perhaps its simply not in the game.

It is listed under Cult Spells (where cult Rune Magic goes), and the description for Initiate says they have to use it. As far as I can tell there are no new Rune spells listed in the book. I looked for a sidebar and in the Divine Spell section.

Is it Spirit Magic? maybe it will turn up in CoG 2.

 

[Rurik]

I'll try and trap those as best I can. Please, if you see anything like this let me know.

I went through the Cult Spells for all the Gods and found the following spells are listed and also do not seem to exist in any book:

Odayla: Peaceful Cut
Yelm: Blade of Virtue
Yelmalio: Farsee and Lantern

Also, Vinga and Xiola Umbar have Shield listed under Cult Spells, which is a Divine Spell. Magasta and Oslira have True (Spear) listed in Cult Spells, which is also a Divine spell. At least this gets around the Type thing.

Finally, good old Skybolt comes back. Some of the Orlanth aspects and Storm Dragon have it - but that would require integrating the Chaos Rune, which seems a bit out of place. That spell has been trouble since day one. Apparently Sever Spirit is too much, but a 3d6 Damage ignore armor Rune Spell at Magnitude 3 is ok. :?

Oh well, that is my errata report for today.

 

[Exubae]

Chalana Arroy doesn't get the common Divine Magic Spell of warding...
Lucky old Chalana Arroy, neither does anyone else it doesn't seem to be in the spell list anymore

 

[Voriof]

Chalana Arroy doesn't get the common Divine Magic Spell of warding...
Lucky old Chalana Arroy, neither does anyone else it doesn't seem to be in the spell list anymore

I think Warding is in the section on Enchantments in the Companion.

Jeff

 

[mserabian]

Hey guys

I'm really unclear on the issues here. It seems to me that most of the issues could be cleared up with an answer to one question. Should we consider the spells associated with the cult type as Divine spells for the cult or not?

If not we need a list of spells that are in the companion that belong to each cult.

If yes, then we need a list of spells in type that are NOT allowed for each specific GLoranthan cult.

Personally, I think it's easier to go with not allowing spells from type and providing a list of missing spells by deity.

If we don't come up with a decision or get a ruling from Mongoose or Jeff one way or the other - there really doesn't seem to be much use to this thread! I just keep getting more an more confused as I read it.

mal

 

[Exubae]

Personally, I think it's easier to go with not allowing spells from type and providing a list of missing spells by deity.

A personalised list of non-basic spell for each Deity would be my favourate way to go on this issue, devorced from Type.

I've put my own together, cobbled from COG and the RQ3 books... not sure if it is worth posting it up though, as it includes some unofficial spells. Probably best to wait for the offical version.

 

[soltakss]

Chalana Arroy doesn't get the common Divine Magic Spell of warding...
Lucky old Chalana Arroy, neither does anyone else it doesn't seem to be in the spell list anymore

She never did, though, because it hurts the liddle iddy widdy monsters.

She used to get Create Neutral Ground from Issaries, though, to make up for it so that the liddle iddy widdy monsters can't come in and surprise her at night.

 

[Exubae]

I think Warding is in the section on Enchantments in the Companion.

Yes it has been religated to an enchantment rather than Divine spell

Boosting up the rather expensive Fang of Wachaza:
Wouldn't be so bad if it was progressive and adding +1d6 per extra point.
or
If any damage penetrates armour all rolled damage penetrates armour. (Excluding parrying armour)

Just a thought....

Noticed a couple of the gods had a spell 'Recall' can't find a reference for it even in older material, what is it, what is it suppoed to do?

 

[Adept]

Should Elmal have Sunspear?
Wouldn't Command (Horses) be more his line?

Had both. Heroquest's Storm Tribe gives him a rather fair amount of fire powers. And I preferred to use the already existing Sunspear rather than come up with a flaming javelin spell.
<snip>
Jeff!

The way I've run Elmal, he doesn't call down a shaft of fire from the sun (Sunspear), but rather can throw a bolt of fire from his spear (or hand).

Something a lot more modest than sunspear, but that is also usable during the night. Elmal is, afterall, the orlanthi "sun" that stayed in the world even when Yelm was away. He doesn't have the fire of the the Emperor, but what he has can burn even in the night.

I don't have the rules, so I can't make up a MRQ spell, but if sunspear is magnitude 5, then I'd suggest 2 or 3. A 2 point runespell under RQ2 / RQ3, doing parhaps 2d6 points of firedamage at a range equal to a javelin throw. (RQ-3 enthusiasts would peg the damage at 3d6, but I reduced firearrow & fireblade to either 2d6, or weapon damage +1d6, whichever was higher).

 

[Voriof]

I don't have the rules, so I can't make up a MRQ spell

Here we go again. :roll:

Jeff

 

[Voriof]

I think Warding is in the section on Enchantments in the Companion.

Yes it has been religated to an enchantment rather than Divine spell

Boosting up the rather expensive Fang of Wachaza:
Wouldn't be so bad if it was progressive and adding +1d6 per extra point.
or
If any damage penetrates armour all rolled damage penetrates armour. (Excluding parrying armour)

Just a thought....

Noticed a couple of the gods had a spell 'Recall' can't find a reference for it even in older material, what is it, what is it suppoed to do?

Hmm. That was the one that allowed you to re-remeber a spell. I think its been removed on the basis of there being a divine spell pool now. I'll get to it as I work on the errata.

Jeff

 

[Itto]

Chalana Arroy doesn't get the common Divine Magic Spell of warding...
Lucky old Chalana Arroy, neither does anyone else it doesn't seem to be in the spell list anymore

I think Warding is in the section on Enchantments in the Companion.

Jeff

I don't think that Chalana Arroy realy needs to have it excluded anymore anyway. The Warding Enchantment doesn't do damage anymore. Just lots of nice protection stuff now. Which is quite within her sphere.

 

[Exubae]

Why is Yelmalio listed as part of the Orlanthi pantheon... okay he shows up in a couple of the myths, getting his ass whooped at the Hill of Gold... but so does Zorak Zoran...
Damn foreign God who diverted a bunch of splitters into worshipping him...