Overwatch and corridor fighting

[Iorwerth]

I was wondering how the game works when you are fighting in enclosed spaces with twisting corridors etc. So far as I can see, a bug waiting around a corner is very hard to deal with, as an MI would only get a reaction if the bug could not reach them in its turn, which with corridor bends etc may not happen that often i.e. in corridor situations it could quite often be the case that a bug around a corner would be within charge range and so steam through MI around the corner. Obviously, MI can use area weapons etc, but as you cannot shoot around corners all the bug would have to do is stand a little bit back from the corner to be immune. In addition, it would make corridor fighting almost exclusively the domain of those MI with missile launchers etc, rather than just your humble MI with his Morita!

I was wondering if anyone had toyed with the idea of introducing 'overwatch' as in Space Hulk, where a model can use an action to go into 'overwatch', allowing him to interrupt and shoot any enemy model that moves into his field of fire. I figured this could be achieved in SST by making 'overwatch' a futher use of a Ready action.

I am new to the game and don't know what knock on effects this may have, but I have a lot of old Space Hulk stuff and thought it may be good to use its board pieces for inside bases and space ships etc.

 

[Hiromoon]

In v1 you can react as many times as you wish (barring rules) to any enemy unit completing an action within 10" of you. Under v2 (aka Evolution) rules, you get only 1 reaction, after which everything's gone bollocks up and you're stuck.

 

[Iorwerth]

But you can only react when the enemy model has completed its order that brought it within 10". My point is, if the model starts within 10" because, for example, it is around a corner, then it gets to charge around and kill you before you can react. Having looked at the movement rates for Bugs maybe this wouldn't happen too much, so it may not really be a problem.

I'm just interested to know whether anyone has experimented with an Overwatch rule.

 

[Hiromoon]

Doesn't seem like it since you just offered it up.... It sounds interesting, but the reaction system typically works...

 

[Galatea]

Well, most times the bug won't reach you as long as you stay away more than 6" from the corner.
Only things like Mantis (8" move) or flying/jumping bugs could become a real problem. And psychic bugs of course.
Flamers are evil at close quarters, but as both sides have flamers it balances out (except that a tanker is really hard to kill before it spits).

But don't forget that you can ready out of the bugs range and then jump to the corner and shoot (as part of the jump) before the bug is able to react.

 

[Makoto]

However he means games within enclosed spaces (corridors, caves, spaceships etc.). In this environment there seldom will be a 9" long corridor (bare minimum for a bug to complete a charge without reaching anyone: 6" move + 2" point blank range), so typical reaction system will indeed fail in this situation and jumps are completely out of the question (ceiling, anyone?).

As I said, imo a good idea for corridor-fighting.

 

[Hiromoon]

Thing is, there's stuff in corridors too, I believe v2 rules are going to cover indoor fighting...

 

[Makoto]

Very good ^^

Although we poor grunts have to wait until they're released and work with what tools we have right now

 

[Hiromoon]

Flame throwers should do more damage in a corridor, shouldn't they?

 

[Makoto]

By myself been wondering about +1 damage for both area and stream weapons, and twice as big LZ for blasts in a confined space ^^

 

[Iorwerth]

I think an overwatch / cover ready order may work, though maybe it would make it very difficult to come around a corner. You could say that to use cover fire you have make a roll (e.g. 2 or 3+ on a d6), to keep a bit or randomness in the combat, but this may mean too much dice rolling. Alternatively, if the shoot roll for the cover fire is a double, or in the case of single die weapons, a 1, then you are out of ammo/fail to fire.

As I have said before, I am only a beginer and maybe don't appreciate how the rules work in practice, but it would be good if the rules function in a fun way when fighting in buildings, space ships, bases etc.

 

[MarkNorfolk]

All you need to do is be further away from the corner than the move of the bug you're scared of.

Cheers
Mark

 

[dyssnowman]

The only problem that I see with expanded LZs and more damage from flamers is that within an enclosed space the blast is more likely to be blocked by the first targets hit. Using a flamer as an example, the corridor may channel the flames forward, but as you hit a target it would be more effective at blocking the flame due to the limited space.

 

[Iorwerth]

While it is true you can make sure you are far enough away from a bug around a corner so that you cannot be charged, what happens if you have to get around that corner. The bug only has to hang back enough inches, and can then use a reaction to attack anyone who pops his face around.

In addition, what happens if you are fighting Skinnies around a corridor i.e. any enemy that uses ranged weapons as well?

My point being, without some kind of cover fire that can interrupt the enemy's actions then you can run into so counter-intuiative situations.

 

[BuShips]

This topic caught my eye, mostly because I have a pile of different corridor pieces made up. I am planning an article tribute of sorts to SH and maybe need to hold off on it until the SST:Evo rules are out. I do in fact need rules to cover corridor fights with these pieces. One way I suppose would be to then consider the corridors are inside of a structure (duh), and this halves movement then. While this does it for both sides (another duh), it might allow those pesky corners to be navigated a little more carefully. Jumps would be out, even with the elbow room of my planetary base-lab / starship corridor sections I've made up. Here is a pic of a pile of these. I plan to connect them using office bulldog clips. Using the pieces I've constructed, there is something in addition to the 90-deg. corners blocking LOS and that is bulkhead doors and airlocks. I figure since my corridors allow two Size 1 figures to stand two abreast, one unit would take an action to open the door (literally a house rule?) while the other units were readied for combat. Also, wouldn't the first version of the LOS rules say that if some of the squad figures are within 1" of the corner of the wall, they could ignore direct LOS and fire at a target (that is literally still out-of sight)? It would be a variant of the example of "trooper 3" explained in the "Line of Sight and Range" on page 33 of the hardback and softback rules. Of course, the waiting Bug units would also know this and make sure to deploy at a setback of 1" as well around the corner (sigh). The resulting LOS would be determined by the width of the corridor, and also the shape as is the case where I made my corridors in a U-shape with slanted lower walls. Corridors would be handled differently between the two sets of rules, as to reactions allowed (as others have said). Regarding the first edition rules on fighting inside of structures, you should use the 1/2 movement rules as a given, but I'd say the random LOS die roll might not work so well in this case, as actual LOS might need to be used. Much food for thought, and thanks for starting the discussion, Iorwerth. I made these corridor sections in order to fit a Bug Warrior unit inside of (as well as a gamer's hand). No Tankers allowed here, though :shock: .

 

[Iorwerth]

Wow! Those corridor pieces look the business. They must have taken you a long time to put together?

 

[Darkghost]

And where did you get them?

 

[BuShips]

Wow! Those corridor pieces look the business. They must have taken you a long time to put together?

I didn't track my time, but yeah. I drew the wall graphics with MS Publisher and laminated the art onto foam-core craft board. Then I cut the sections out with a hobby knife, formed them and glued them together with a hot-glue gun. I slanted the walls to give a non-squared look and to fit my hand better and the Bug Warriors as well. Even so, not all of my assembled Warrior units fit into the corridor sections. With the release of the pre-painted Bug units after the first of the year, the newer units should all fit, but that's if Mongoose still went with the posable legs I read about awhile back. I did build my plastic Warriors in a varienty of poses, some of which are not suited for these corridors. Firefries will work easily, as will Size 2 Bug units and the Size 3 Mantis variants (as they are actually smaller than game Size 3 is). As the intent is an article paying homage to a classic game, I was thinking of a way to incorporate some of the new Litko Aerosystems scanner blip markers without changing the rules away from SST too much.

http://www.litkoaero.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=LAI&Product_Code=TS009

The tokens are very nice, and maybe timely for my project.

 

[BuShips]

And where did you get them?

From a supplier called "my blood, sweat and tears" :wink: .

 

[Darkghost]

Thats ausome... I figured you'd made them yourself, but printed the walls, floors, etc. off the internet.