Condottiere
Emperor Mongoose
Smallcraft grav drives would probably need to be distributed out like the Harrier or the F-35B, otherwise stopping in mid air might leave them lopsided.
No grav tanks needed at higher TL's
- Thread starter sideranautae
- Start date
sideranautae
Mongoose
Condottiere said:
I don't think that they would be "thrust" type items. But for a ship I think that the Grav drives would need a grid in the hull to create grav "pull" in different directions.
Condottiere
Emperor Mongoose
That's how I recall air/rafts.
GypsyComet
Emperor Mongoose
sideranautae said:
Nope. Someone is conducting a DNS Redirect campaign against them for reasons unknown. They may have it pinned down by now, but it was a problem for much of the last week. They have been having DNS oddities for some time, though not as bad and not affecting everyone. When the prior issue struck I could usually wait a couple minutes and try again, and the site would come up just fine. That site is the host for Traveller in general, while this one is specific to Mongoose's edition.
CosmicGamer said:
Bear in mind that ships and small craft generally oeprate in the open vacuum of space, while vehicles generally operate on planetary surfaces where they have to fight against local gravity and also have to content with air resistance, which increases with the square of velocity. This means that eventually air resistance balances out with the vehicle's thrust, yielding a maximum practical speed.
These considerations are only vaguely considered in the rules though. For example maximum vehicle speed will vary depending on local gravity strength and also atmospheric density. For most purposes though that's not as important as being able to compare the relative performance of vehicles.
Simon Hibbs
Reynard
Emperor Mongoose
Biggest issue is Mongoose went the K.I.S.S. route by way of Classic Traveller. Terms are vague or ignored. Jump does interstellar travel, 'maneuver' moves you around solar systems as long as gravity effects are there and vehicles use anti-grav. Grav tanks operate within the gravity well while ships operate best in space. That simple.
If one really need a reason why small craft fighters don't dominate surface theaters then remember they were designed to fight at great speed over huge distances. I'm sure their sensor suck at discerning targets from ground clutter until to late. In a planetary environment, they act more like aero fighters than grav vehicle that behave akin to VTOL units. Everyone thinks grav vehicles fly at each other like a jet but I've always seen them using high flight to get to combat quickly then making use of terrain for concealment and cover incorporating pop-ups when possible. Just like aircraft today that can be deadly, it only takes a guy with a relatively cheap surface to air missile to even the odds against something out in the open sky. I see in The Vehicle Handbook there are lots of anti-aircraft ordinance. If space fighters became such a nuisance, it's only fair that ordinance would get upgraded very fast! And ground forces can have supplies of said ordinance close by. That's the difference.
If one really need a reason why small craft fighters don't dominate surface theaters then remember they were designed to fight at great speed over huge distances. I'm sure their sensor suck at discerning targets from ground clutter until to late. In a planetary environment, they act more like aero fighters than grav vehicle that behave akin to VTOL units. Everyone thinks grav vehicles fly at each other like a jet but I've always seen them using high flight to get to combat quickly then making use of terrain for concealment and cover incorporating pop-ups when possible. Just like aircraft today that can be deadly, it only takes a guy with a relatively cheap surface to air missile to even the odds against something out in the open sky. I see in The Vehicle Handbook there are lots of anti-aircraft ordinance. If space fighters became such a nuisance, it's only fair that ordinance would get upgraded very fast! And ground forces can have supplies of said ordinance close by. That's the difference.
A
Anonymous
Guest
Until someone puts a ship or SDB in low orbit with look down radar/sensors and knocks the living daylights out of anything it sees. Air dominance is air dominance whatever the craft is called doing it.
Reynard
Emperor Mongoose
If air dominance is king then why do modern militaries still rely on vehicles to fight a war? Why do we keep fighting low tech enemies with uber weapons such as ultra sophisticated jets for decades? Then again, with drones existing today and in Traveller, why not fight wars solely with remote or smart drones? Oh wait, they can't seem to clean out an enemy either.
If space based fighters and ships have such superior sensors and weapons to detect and attack ground units, wouldn't those same systems be aiming toward the sky? If you can find a ground target, the same system should target a glowing object in low orbit just as we do against high flying jets today.
If space based fighters and ships have such superior sensors and weapons to detect and attack ground units, wouldn't those same systems be aiming toward the sky? If you can find a ground target, the same system should target a glowing object in low orbit just as we do against high flying jets today.
sideranautae
Mongoose
Reynard said:
Who said that air dominance with TL 7 craft is king???? Are you on the right thread?
Reynard said:
Actually it doesn't, for various reasons, such as having aircraft organic to infantry. It is a conundrum, but not more so than if I have a high tech, hi pop planet, why can't I have 10,000 meson gun emplacements of the highest spinal letter and a million AD missile-torpedo emplacements? With the ability to bring more online with manufacturing capacity, and a planet, can hold out forever. Then we bring out launching asteroids at the planet ...
It is a never ending spiral.
Condottiere
Emperor Mongoose
One reason to have grav belted battledressed FGMP-wielding Marines: harder to single out, and too dangerous to leave wandering about.
Exactly. Between mobility, damage potential, and tactical co-ordination, well armed, high TL battledress infantry has few equals.
A good example - within the game rules - was when we threw a MCr1 'fake' imperial marine at a mechanised column and (whilst he died) he stopped it dead.
If there had been two or three of him, and they'd had 'proper' battledress and FGMPs rather than just unpowered combat armour and PGMPs, they'd have taken the platoon to the cleaners before they knew what hit them.
A good example - within the game rules - was when we threw a MCr1 'fake' imperial marine at a mechanised column and (whilst he died) he stopped it dead.
If there had been two or three of him, and they'd had 'proper' battledress and FGMPs rather than just unpowered combat armour and PGMPs, they'd have taken the platoon to the cleaners before they knew what hit them.
Reynard
Emperor Mongoose
The powered marine has its own issues. More likely than not, it will take out lower tech, lower power units as a norm but they tend to be cost effective targets. As we see today, the best equipped doesn't guarantee instant let alone long lasting success. We fantasize quick victory by superior firepower but the opposition has more than ever learned to fight dirty. Notice we no longer nuke enemies into submission since that one event? Makes wars ever since then a lot deadlier and longer lasting since that decision. Superpowers tend to 'lose' a lot more often.
I dont see how the Vincent marine did so well considering an APDS Bolt Action sniper rifle can eliminate him in one or two shots with the current ruleset - using the basic 20 armor points.
An experienced (Skill 3, Attribute DM +1) sniper using scopes/weapon mods (+1, negate range penalty) and aiming +1) would be rolling 2d6+7 to hit. With an AP of -8 and 4d6+margin of success damage, that is pretty much a guaranteed dead Imperial Marine in 2 shots. All for the low cost of 5 KCr or so?
Infact, this game suffers from disposable infantry having no equals due to the amount of powerful weaponry available at low TLs; There is a big discrepancy between the effectiveness of armor at a spacecraft level and personal/vehicle level. It's like the balance exists in spacecraft, but in small scale combat
The only things that seemed to fix this (and I enjoyed these supplements) where the combined Vehicle 5-6 supplements and their rules for Battlearmor/vehicle creation. Finally it actually made sense to have something more than just infantry - because beforehand, that 5KCr cost trooper was taking out your 1 MCr battle armor or 20 MCr tanks (with heavy weaponry).
An experienced (Skill 3, Attribute DM +1) sniper using scopes/weapon mods (+1, negate range penalty) and aiming +1) would be rolling 2d6+7 to hit. With an AP of -8 and 4d6+margin of success damage, that is pretty much a guaranteed dead Imperial Marine in 2 shots. All for the low cost of 5 KCr or so?
Infact, this game suffers from disposable infantry having no equals due to the amount of powerful weaponry available at low TLs; There is a big discrepancy between the effectiveness of armor at a spacecraft level and personal/vehicle level. It's like the balance exists in spacecraft, but in small scale combat
The only things that seemed to fix this (and I enjoyed these supplements) where the combined Vehicle 5-6 supplements and their rules for Battlearmor/vehicle creation. Finally it actually made sense to have something more than just infantry - because beforehand, that 5KCr cost trooper was taking out your 1 MCr battle armor or 20 MCr tanks (with heavy weaponry).
