Nial question

[CrookedWookie]

I was hoping someone could clarify something about the Nial for me. They're designated as heavy fighters and, despite the low hull score, their neutron cannon certainly seems to back that claim up. A few flights of those could be devastating to a capital ship.

But if I understand right inside of that 2" AF range your Dodge and Stealth abilities are both useless. This means that with a hull of 4 I would think Nials are hideously vulnerable to Anti Fighter, right?

Seeing as how they're one of the more expensive fighters in the game and the Minbari tend not to field ANYTHING in big numbers, how do the Nials actually DO in their stated role of heavy fighter? Do any ever survive to start tearing ships up with their mini beam, or is there a smarter way to use them?

It seems a waste to use that cannon exclusively on fighters, but the Nial doesn't seem built to survive the attacks on capital ships its cannon warrants. Thoughts? Advice?

 

[Lord David the Denied]

At hull 4, anti-fighter only has a 50% chance to stop a Nial flight, so just mob them up and swarm a target. Most ships don't have enough AF to threaten every flight anyway. The survivors can take their shots in the shooting phase.

 

[angelus2000]

At hull 4, anti-fighter only has a 50% chance to stop a Nial flight, so just mob them up and swarm a target. Most ships don't have enough AF to threaten every flight anyway. The survivors can take their shots in the shooting phase.

Its the mob up part I think he's having the trouble with. Nials really don't come in the numbers necessary to do that, expecially if your having to buy Patrol Wings. And since Minbari don't really on quantity, needs must go with quality, but AF takes away the 2 things that make Nials really survivable, Dodge and Stealth.

Crooked, if you haven't already realized this, Nials are one of the few fighters able to actually manage to live long enough to make attacks against ships. The only 3 races that can beat Minbari at the fighter game is EA, Raiders, and Gaim; Minbari will will usually win the fighter battle, Joeboo willing. Nials also don't have to worry about ships shooting at them for the most part, stealth defeats everything but emines on the norm. So the fact your fighters are living in numbers long enough to actually make attacks against ships already puts you in the top tier.

All that aside, using Nials against ships is very dependent on what fleet your facing. Using them to attack big ships is kinda pointless; cap ships have enough AF dice to kill several Nials in a few turns unless they're are crippled and have lost AF. Nials excell at attacking 2 things, skirmish and patrol ships that are fast. Most Patrol and Skimsh ships have little, if any AF, and those Fusion cannons will tear through Hull 4 and 5 low damage hulls in a hurry. Nials also have the added bonus of being able to outrun and catch almost every ship in the game, something that every other heavy fighter in the game has a hard time doing.

 

[Da Boss]

excellent advice here -Nials are excellent fighters with a useful anti ship capability - anyway could be worse you could be using Shadow fighters :lol:

 

[Greg Smith]

Its the mob up part I think he's having the trouble with. Nials really don't come in the numbers necessary to do that, expecially if your having to buy Patrol Wings.

But it only takes 2 to mob-up against a G'Quan (AF1), or just a single flight against a Nova (no AF). If you only have a few flights, you pick targets with low anti-fighter.

 

[Silvereye]

Under first ed, the Minbari Nials/Tichats were used for Anti-fighter work, and Nials/Flyers for anti-ship work.

With the second ed changes, in particular the anti-fighter mechanics and notably the alterations to Flyers, the 1e tactics are pretty useless now. However the Nial is still an awesome multi-role fighter.

If your playing in the larger PL games, a Morshin is a really useful choice, as it has the Fleet Carrier ability, so it can recycle a proportion of lost fighters from the fleet back into the flight, as well as carrying 9 flights worth into the fight. Oh and a +1 dogfight and +1 command, so the Minbari should be calling the shots with initiative and dogfights.

As to the anti-ship role, their weaponry is a Mini-Beam. Hits on 4+ (so it does not matter what the ships hull is) and ignores any interceptors the target may have. And if your worried about masses of anti-fighter, that's where the Skin Dancing rules could come in handy (not sure if they can be shot at by Anti-fighter if they skin dance, I don't have my books to check the wording).

As Greg has noted, you need to pick your targets carefully. Sending a single Nial flight up against a Hyperion is likely to result in loosing the fighter, sending a single Nial against the Nova will be more fruitful (just remember to place it in an arc that has bigger targets for its main guns to shoot at.

If you are picking up independent wings for a patrol point, the Flyer is actually a remarkably good fighter. Stealth 5 to hide behind (reducing the need for it to Dodge), Dogfight +1 (not the best in space, but equal to most other competent fighters - Star Snakes, Tzymm, Falkosi, Gorith) and a good speed. A wing of them also carries more AD then a Wing of Nials.

 

[angelus2000]

But it only takes 2 to mob-up against a G'Quan (AF1), or just a single flight against a Nova (no AF). If you only have a few flights, you pick targets with low anti-fighter.

Entirely true. Ships without AF are fighter-bait against anything. But it didn't seem necessary to mention it in regards to Nials or any other fighter.

The thing about Nials is that you have to pick and choose what ships to send them against. Almost all heavy fighter/bombers have 3" or more weapons to completely stay out of AF, or have sufficient numbers/Hull 5+ to weather AF a turn or 2. They don't have to be selective in what they shoot at; as either they can't be shot at at all, or it takes a long while for AF to whittle them down either due to toughness or numbers (one of the reasons why I think T-Bolts are still the best fighter/bomber, cause even though there's better one ones out there on a flight to flight basis, T-bolts come in sufficient numbers and have Hull 5 to brave almost anything with AF for several turns). Nials don't have either, so they're either really effective againsts non-AF ships or non-effective againsts AF equipped.

 

[katadder]

they have good dodge, good weapons, good stealth, good dogfight - had to be a downside to them somewhere and AF grids is their downfall. as has been said though pick up ships with little to no anti-fighter and you will do ok.

 

[Karhedron]

If you are picking up independent wings for a patrol point, the Flyer is actually a remarkably good fighter. Stealth 5 to hide behind (reducing the need for it to Dodge), Dogfight +1 (not the best in space, but equal to most other competent fighters - Star Snakes, Tzymm, Falkosi, Gorith) and a good speed. A wing of them also carries more AD then a Wing of Nials.

They are also a good way to add some proxy Interceptors to your fleet. Minbari are hard enough to kill as it is, if you add a way to reduce some of the non-beam damage they might otherwise suffer you can be onto a winner.

 

[Lord David the Denied]

Fliers are also handy for that...

 

[Joe_Dracos]

Well, if you need a way to gain Quantity for Nials.... go with a Morshin.... they're also fleet carriers so you can potentially recycle those that are destroyed. If you are playing a battle level game, then go with two of these. Suddenly even the EA are sweating.... however, fighters against the gaim are pretty pointless....

 

[Burger]

If you're using ISA rather than Minbari, take Thunderbolts over Nials. Their range 4 makes them immune to anti-fighter, and you get twice as many of them.

 

[Lord David the Denied]

You've got the Nials carried on your White Stars, though, and you need to use them effectively... :wink:

 

[lastbesthope]

You've got the Nials carried on your White Stars, though, and you need to use them effectively... :wink:

Covering your WS against other fighters is a good way to use them.

LBH

 

[Lord David the Denied]

Aye, true, but it's also handy to sneak them around the back of low-PL ships and kill them...

 

[David Anla Shok']

Fighters are to be used against other fighters. Anything else is gravy. You will be hard pressed to find a better tool than the Nial. You CAN use it against the big boys, you just have to do so in a judicious manner... smaller ships with little or no AF or to finish off that cripple. They are pricey, no doubt about it, so use them carefully.
Regards,

 

[lastbesthope]

I used my Nials to good effect against Blue Stars, basically use them to dogfight, CYA against enemy fighters and use them against ships with no AF trait.

LBH

 

[David Anla Shok']

I used my Nials to good effect against Blue Stars, basically use them to dogfight, CYA against enemy fighters and use them against ships with no AF trait.

LBH

Nials vs Blue Stars? Sacrilige!

 

[Centauri_Admiral]

I think some people are missing the point with regards to AF, its called anti-fighter because [and this may come as a shock] their sole purpose is to take out fighters, last time I checked the nial was a fighter.

Like dave said, the Nial is about THE best dogfighter in the game, and coupled with a morshin carrier, there isn't another fleet out there [even with its own variant fleet carrier], that on paper can out-do morshin backing up nials.

Whilst nials do have heavy firepower for a fighter flight, as others have already said, they are still not to be used as your main line attack against a fully fledged capitol warship. Now using them to finish off or pick on less well defended targets yes; but don't be mistaken by the nials classification. They will not toe-toe with capitol warships with decent AF screens; unless of course you are an incredibly lucky satan worshipping swine.

 

[lastbesthope]

I used my Nials to good effect against Blue Stars, basically use them to dogfight, CYA against enemy fighters and use them against ships with no AF trait.

LBH

Nials vs Blue Stars? Sacrilige!

My reasons are twofold:

1) It was a tourney game...

2) He started it, well to be fair I can't remember who won initiative, but either way I was going to be the one who finished it :lol:

LBH