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[far-trader]

Your own prejudiced interpretation that the quoted bit somehow suggests rockets which are clearly not available before TL7 historically... lol

Scientific fact is not equal to "prejudice". Umm, rockets have been around since TL 6. So, haven't a clue what you are talking about. It you weren't laughing while typing you would have probably caught your error there.

Ah, I'm sorry my chuckle distracted you from the fact I intended to highlight through hyperbole.

What I'm saying is Traveller maneuver drives are useful starting at TL7. Correct? (that's rhetorical btw)

We both know rockets (aka chemical drives) are available earlier than TL7. Correct? (again rhetorical)

Therefore any maneuver drives in Traveller designated at TL7* must be gravitic drives.

Simple logic.

* NOTE: I'm not saying maneuver drives are TL7, gravitic or otherwise, in MgT/CT. I still don't see you providing a clear quote that says what TL maneuver drives are available. CT doesn't even really state one as I noted. Effectively it does as you are limited for safety and comfort reasons to sticking to the table per the rules. But specifically saying M1 drives are TL7 and M6 drives are TL9. No, it does not. Neither does MgT in what you quoted.

It then also follows that the reference you quoted, and the drive TL table, like in CT HG, refers not to the actual maneuver drives, but to the effects of AG and GC making faster and safer travel a reality. Again, MgT staying in line of the spirit of CT as they had promised.

One word. "Air/Raft" (TL8 gravity manipulation in your words).

One word. Misprint...

Sure it is. And has been since CT. lol

The other grav devices listed are higher TL because they are extremely miniaturized of course. That seems obvious.

Treat it as errata for Your TU of course, that's fine. We all hammer bits to make things work for us. Until there is official errata saying otherwise though I'll take it as is.

I'm probably still not stating it clearly enough but I'm done trying, here and now anyway

Apologies to the OP for dragging this out into another probably pointless debate. I only meant to comment that there was more than one valid interpretation to the quoted bit. I'll give DFW the last word on if he likes.

 

[zero]

*cough* the table stated TL 7, so thats what I'm going on. It wasnt a misprint, as Thrust 3-4 were TL 8 and Thrust 5-6 were TL 9.

Infact it states in High Guard that a prototype Thrust 1-2 M-Drive could exist at TL 6. Tbh, I just think Traveller has just simplified the space travel rules for ease of use...

"Oh, lots of tonnage in fuel, mass and drive and I still reach Mars in a manner of months! Isnt Traveller fun!!!"

:roll:

 

[DFW]

*cough* the table stated TL 7, so thats what I'm going on.

Of course. It is your game, your rules.

 

[apoc527]

I actually agree pretty strongly with DFW here, simply for common sense reasons. Because HG introduced reaction M-drives, and the table doesn't specify, it's virtually impossible to settle this discussion with the rules as written.

Has there ever been a single Traveller ship with reactionless drives at TL7? No, because that's nuts. Also, the recently released Library Data is pretty darn conclusive:

On page 65, it has a detailed listing of transportation by TL. For TL7, it says Maneuver 1/2 (non-gravitic). For TL8, it says Maneuver 3/5 (non-gravitic). Finally, at TL 10, it says gravitic maneuver. It does have TL9 "early gravitic" vehicles.

So, I'd argue that a TL8 air/raft is inconsistent with many more stated rules and deem it to be a TL9 vehicle (early grav vehicle). And that real gravitic tech is TL10+. And that's how it will be for more game. After all, it removes much of the charm of Traveller if the TL system is so fundamentally broken that under it's rules, Earth, right now, should have reactionless drives. Someone mentioned earlier that Earth right now can't easily be placed into Traveller's rules--well, in the OTU, Earth is a historical place--this isn't Star Wars in a galaxy far, far away. The Library Data information makes sense and I will use it.

 

[zero]

AndrewW, just noticed your comment about the sandbarrels. If you look on the price list, there are 20 barrels stated for the 10,000 credits. Again YMMV if you want to keep that in the ship's mortgage payments. I have them there as something like a "starter package" so the ship isnt unarmed the first time its taken out. When they run out, you'll have to spend your own credits for new ones.

As for the discussion on non-gravitic Drives, its up to the User but the M-Drive is stated as being TL 7, so you as a GM/Player decide whether its non-gravitic. Dont like it? Keep the general design and try to design an Engineering section around a C-class M-Drive and P-plant to make it canon. I put the ship up here for other's use, ffs, you dont have to use it like my description was set in stone.
That being said, have the Drive as a Reaction Drive and again, redesign Engineering because you need Jump Fuel to reach 4 hours of interplanetary transit.

Aw F' it, I'll post a new ship design at a later point for those who are struggling with this.

 

[AndrewW]

AndrewW, just noticed your comment about the sandbarrels. If you look on the price list, there are 20 barrels stated for the 10,000 credits. Again YMMV if you want to keep that in the ship's mortgage payments. I have them there as something like a "starter package" so the ship isnt unarmed the first time its taken out. When they run out, you'll have to spend your own credits for new ones.

Correct it's 20 barrels for that price. I was referring to your comment about being expensive for a barrel. And just talking about the usual, adding it in that way also increases the maintenance cost.

 

[zero]

Yeah, you're right. At some point I will edit the original post to get round these two issues (the other being the exception took to a TL 7 M-Drive).

In the meantime, thanks for your help in this first time for me uploading a ship design here and the deckplan. :wink:

Atm I'm busy over at the Cthulhutech forum planning my Pbp game and starting out in Ronin84's one. When I can be bothered I'll sort things out, kinda drained from the negative comments here from everyone else atm though. I dont want to sign out on a bad note though, so heres a song...

(Turn Around...)
Every now and then
I get a lil bit lonely
that youre never coming round...
(Turn Around...)

:wink:

 

[AndrewW]

In the meantime, thanks for your help in this first time for me uploading a ship design here and the deckplan. :wink:

No problem.

Atm I'm busy over at the Cthulhutech forum planning my Pbp game and starting out in Ronin84's one. When I can be bothered I'll sort things out, kinda drained from the negative comments here from everyone else atm though. I dont want to sign out on a bad note though, so heres a song...

No hurry, get to it when you can. Don't worry about a few negative comments, different people have different opinions about things.

 

[barnest2]

So, yeah, I hate you all, and I decided to do a 3D model of this
Working from the deckplans, this is the initial model without any changes, just pure deckplan turned 3D.... It's a purty ship:

http://i877.photobucket.com/albums/ab336/barnest2/newcommisionfirstshot.jpg?t=1305067284

 

[zero]

Cool, thanks again, Barnest! :wink:

Strange that the cargohold juts out like that though... I'll have another look at the deckplans and see if the two floors could move around a bit.

As for boosting the TL of the Drive to 9 to make it gravitic, this will affect the price, though not really the tonnage at a significant level (90% of 2 tons... right... :roll: ).

Again, when I can be bothered I will sort the price out, though to be profitable enough to land on an A-class starport other things may change.

Link to Recruitment for Chthonian Stars Pbp game;

http://cthulhutech.10.forumer.com/viewtopic.php?t=2968

If you got Chthonian Stars and like things such as Dead Space or Aliens, films of Cronenberg or just want to be part of a darker sided Pbp, please post your interest and a character sheet (all concepts welcome, I am an equal oppurtunities tormentor! :twisted: )

 

[zero]

Double-post just to clarify about the deckplans, I see a few options;

1) Move the elevator square in the cargo hold to the 6th square down from the tip-end. This makes the tapered tip of the ship flow nicely down into the cargo deck. Then move the lowberth room close to the elevator so passengers have less of a walk :wink:

or...

2) Move the lowberth to the top deck, which makes that a little longer and shortens out the cargo deck.

Also, I'd have the M-Drive (there would be two rockets at 1dton btw for A-class Thrust 2) with the rest of Engineering, all in that one big room, either way. It keeps everything central and also lengthens the top deck and keeps the bottom deck specially for cargo.

The way I deckplan, I'd go with Option 2 and the Engineering change, however I dont know what would be the best and I dont know what Darrian ship design is like compared to Corebook designs, but thats what I would do anyway.

Also, another thanks to AndrewW for doing the deckplan (it is cool) and if it is ok, could you please do a new deckplan based on these comments? Thanks again and once everything is done, feel free to use this ship in your games

 

[AndrewW]

Also, another thanks to AndrewW for doing the deckplan (it is cool) and if it is ok, could you please do a new deckplan based on these comments? Thanks again and once everything is done, feel free to use this ship in your games

By your command:

http://www.wuala.com/AndrewW/Traveller/Stubby-02.png/

 

[far-trader]

Looking better guys, not sure it's quite what zero was shooting for re the upper/lower alignment.

How about put the lift on the upper deck in the airlock (the open square above the #2)

Then put the lift on the lower deck right at the very forward most part of the cargo deck.

Heck, in this ship (bargain salvage frankenship, I mean that in the nicest way ) I probably wouldn't have a lift, just a ladder and floor/ceiling iris (same place as above) and maybe a second one further back, in the engineering station/airlock would be ideal (right where you have it now).

That nexus of hatches (sandcaster, aft, and locker) looks a bit crowded and awkward (unless it's intended so ), maybe flip the sandcaster around so the hatch is forward of where it is now?

Not really sure you need or can justify all the bulkheads and hatches either, imo. You could do away with the one for the locker, the forward low berth one, the maneuver drive ones. Replace them with simple sliding doors. Also move the stateroom door forward one square so the doors have somewhere to retract. And flip the bulkhead between the power plant and drives to between the engineer's station/airlock.

Just suggestions of course (...how I'd do it, and I would/might but I'm playing with a couple other ships right now... or should be )

Had a couple minutes* to cut-n-paste doodle my suggestions of last night visually to make them clearer. Still very much AndrewW's work and only suggestions of what I think zero was looking for regarding deck alignment.

* too rushed I guess, forgot to flip the "3" again (it's upside down) when I flipped the orientation of the sandcaster

 

[zero]

Thanks both, yes far-trader's deckplan is what I was thinking of, though I appreciate we'd not have it if it wasnt for AndrewW :wink:

Adding far-trader to my sig :wink:

 

[barnest2]

I'll rework my model now

 

[barnest2]

Done it
Hows this, no edits:
http://i877.photobucket.com/albums/ab336/barnest2/commision2redone.jpg?t=1305152143
looks much better

 

[far-trader]

...looks much better

It does. Shaping up nicely

Question: The pinched in bit at the front of the cargo deck is... ?

What if where it pinches in there you made it slope up to the underside of the upper deck as well, to form a ramp door when lowered and provide a bit more look of streamlining?

 

[zero]

Barnest2, thats the sexiest white box Ive ever seen! :wink:

I also like far-trader's idea... I'm getting pumped for this project again, so I should have an edit of the stat block up some time tomorrow

 

[barnest2]

I made it betterer
http://i877.photobucket.com/albums/ab336/barnest2/commision2streamlined.jpg?t=1305201877
what do you think

 

[zero]

That is hot

Great job!