Sensor Options

A couple of sensors are missing, I think.

Neutrino sensors - determines fusion and fission sources in a star system.

Active EMS - unless it's pinging with Radar
 
A couple of sensors are missing, I think.

Neutrino sensors - determines fusion and fission sources in a star system.

Active EMS - unless it's pinging with Radar
They are options - I have only listed the main sensor types so far.

Any of the sensor systems that use Power are "active EMS"
 
I'd think that as your TL increases, your "basic" sensors would also increase in capabilities (or at least distance to acquire targets and discriminating against clutter). But your TL15 basic sensors would not automatically include things like a densitometer by default as you'd still want cheap basic packages to reflect, well, what a basic system would be.

Jamming equipment is really military, not civilian and shouldn't be part of that package. Really you should have to select additional systems with the power/space penalty (As well as operators) for each so you'd have some variety. Having every ship at that TL with those kinds of sensor capabilities seems wrong to me. If you want to load your ship up with them, that's fine, but it costs you in credits and space/power (not to mention some would be mil-spec and you'd have to run that gauntlet as well in order to acquire them).

This would add more possible variety to ships as some will buy some upgrades, but not others as you have penny-pinchers as well as ships that simply do not need them. Any spaceship would want radar/lidar and have some passive capabilities. Merchant ships w/o weaponry have no need to have active targetting systems, and even those that may possess some very basis self-defense capabilities would not necessarily expend the extra credits for ECM/ECCM gear.

This boat left the dock a long time ago but still deserves to be pointed out. Active sensors for vehicles are going to be more land-based, or something along the same lines. Most systems are going to be very-short ranged to reflect their operating environment, and defenses would be along the lines of active point defense systems, some jamming and smoke/IR. I think vehicle systems need to have more limited use to reflect that most cannot spam flares or smoke infinitely. They are definitely going to be limited usage unless the system is energy-based.
 
I'd think that as your TL increases, your "basic" sensors would also increase in capabilities (or at least distance to acquire targets and discriminating against clutter). But your TL15 basic sensors would not automatically include things like a densitometer by default as you'd still want cheap basic packages to reflect, well, what a basic system would be.

Jamming equipment is really military, not civilian and shouldn't be part of that package. Really you should have to select additional systems with the power/space penalty (As well as operators) for each so you'd have some variety. Having every ship at that TL with those kinds of sensor capabilities seems wrong to me. If you want to load your ship up with them, that's fine, but it costs you in credits and space/power (not to mention some would be mil-spec and you'd have to run that gauntlet as well in order to acquire them).

This would add more possible variety to ships as some will buy some upgrades, but not others as you have penny-pinchers as well as ships that simply do not need them. Any spaceship would want radar/lidar and have some passive capabilities. Merchant ships w/o weaponry have no need to have active targetting systems, and even those that may possess some very basis self-defense capabilities would not necessarily expend the extra credits for ECM/ECCM gear.

This boat left the dock a long time ago but still deserves to be pointed out. Active sensors for vehicles are going to be more land-based, or something along the same lines. Most systems are going to be very-short ranged to reflect their operating environment, and defenses would be along the lines of active point defense systems, some jamming and smoke/IR. I think vehicle systems need to have more limited use to reflect that most cannot spam flares or smoke infinitely. They are definitely going to be limited usage unless the system is energy-based.
I can get behind this idea! :)
 
How effective are TL15 basic sensors? Yet another deficiency in Vehicles and High Guard, or could the TL stage effects be used on sensors too...


Sensor TLsuiteDMpower Tons Cost
basic8Lidar, Radar-40--
civilian9Lidar, Radar-211MCr3
basic nav*9Radar/Lidar, Passive EM, Visual-251
minimal*10Radar, Lidar, Visual-41-
military10Jammers, Lidar, Radar022MCr4.1
basic mil*11Radar/Lidar, Passive EM, Visual, Jammers0102
adv mil*12Radar/Lidar, Passive EM, Visual, Jammers+1203
v adv mil*12Radar/Lidar, Passive EM, Visual, Jammers+1305
improved12Densitometer, Jammers, Lidar, Radar+143MCr4.3
advanced15Densitometer, Jammers, Lidar, Neural Activity Sensor, Radar+265MCr5.3

* T2300 AEH sensor systems

For each TL above base pick any combination of the following, some may be taken multiple times
reduced tonnage - reduce sensor tonnage by 1 (maximum reduction 3t)
efficient - reduce power by 1 (maximum power reduction 3)
high resolution - increase DM by 1 (maximum DM addition of 3 up to a maximum DM of 0)

Note - a power rating of (-) means the sensors may be used passively.

If you want a better sensor that is a higher TL than your base then you have to take a disadvantage, up to a maximum of 3. Each disadvantage increases the cost by 50%

increased tonnage - reduce sensor tonnage by 1 (maximum increase 3t)
inefficient - reduce power by 1 (maximum power increase 3)
low resolution resolution - decrease DM by 1 (maximum DM reduction of 3)

eg basic sensor
TL9 DM-3, TL10 DM -2, TL11 DM -1

eg TL8 "civilian rated" sensor has 3 options
DM -2, power 1, tons 2
DM -2, power 2, tons 1
DM -3, power 1, tons 1

eg TL8 "military rated" has 2 disadvantages.

TL9 can have "military" with 1 disadvantage, or improved with 3 disadvantages.
 
I think there is a cut and paste error on
How effective are TL15 basic sensors? Yet another deficiency in Vehicles and High Guard, or could the TL stage effects be used on sensors too...


Sensor TLsuiteDMpower Tons Cost
basic8Lidar, Radar-40--
civilian9Lidar, Radar-211MCr3
basic nav*9Radar/Lidar, Passive EM, Visual-251
minimal*10Radar, Lidar, Visual-41-
military10Jammers, Lidar, Radar022MCr4.1
basic mil*11Radar/Lidar, Passive EM, Visual, Jammers0102
adv mil*12Radar/Lidar, Passive EM, Visual, Jammers+1203
v adv mil*12Radar/Lidar, Passive EM, Visual, Jammers+1305
improved12Densitometer, Jammers, Lidar, Radar+143MCr4.3
advanced15Densitometer, Jammers, Lidar, Neural Activity Sensor, Radar+265MCr5.3

* T2300 AEH sensor systems

For each TL above base pick any combination of the following, some may be taken multiple times
reduced tonnage - reduce sensor tonnage by 1 (maximum reduction 3t)
efficient - reduce power by 1 (maximum power reduction 3)
high resolution - increase DM by 1 (maximum DM addition of 3 up to a maximum DM of 0)

Note - a power rating of (-) means the sensors may be used passively.

If you want a better sensor that is a higher TL than your base then you have to take a disadvantage, up to a maximum of 3. Each disadvantage increases the cost by 50%

increased tonnage - reduce sensor tonnage by 1 (maximum increase 3t)
inefficient - reduce power by 1 (maximum power increase 3)
low resolution resolution - decrease DM by 1 (maximum DM reduction of 3)

eg basic sensor
TL9 DM-3, TL10 DM -2, TL11 DM -1

eg TL8 "civilian rated" sensor has 3 options
DM -2, power 1, tons 2
DM -2, power 2, tons 1
DM -3, power 1, tons 1

eg TL8 "military rated" has 2 disadvantages.

TL9 can have "military" with 1 disadvantage, or improved with 3 disadvantages.
I think there is a cut and paste error on your disadvantages. Inefficient should increase not decrease power, Increased tonnage should increase tonnage... But I do like where you are going. Also you said
"Note - a power rating of (-) means the sensors may be used passively." But I do not see any with "-" in the power column.
 
I think there is a cut and paste error on

I think there is a cut and paste error on your disadvantages. Inefficient should increase not decrease power, Increased tonnage should increase tonnage... But I do like where you are going. Also you said
"Note - a power rating of (-) means the sensors may be used passively." But I do not see any with "-" in the power column.
Good spot, I have edited it. I think I copied the wrong text from the word original :(

And yes it should be power (0) - also now corrected.

Thanks for the heads up.
 
I'd think that as your TL increases, your "basic" sensors would also increase in capabilities (or at least distance to acquire targets and discriminating against clutter). But your TL15 basic sensors would not automatically include things like a densitometer by default as you'd still want cheap basic packages to reflect, well, what a basic system would be.
Hence the DM becomes less negative as basic sensor TL increases, there will also be a range increase gut that will come later.
Jamming equipment is really military, not civilian and shouldn't be part of that package. Really you should have to select additional systems with the power/space penalty (As well as operators) for each so you'd have some variety. Having every ship at that TL with those kinds of sensor capabilities seems wrong to me. If you want to load your ship up with them, that's fine, but it costs you in credits and space/power (not to mention some would be mil-spec and you'd have to run that gauntlet as well in order to acquire them).
Military only, or particularly Solomani paramilitary...
This would add more possible variety to ships as some will buy some upgrades, but not others as you have penny-pinchers as well as ships that simply do not need them. Any spaceship would want radar/lidar and have some passive capabilities. Merchant ships w/o weaponry have no need to have active targetting systems, and even those that may possess some very basis self-defense capabilities would not necessarily expend the extra credits for ECM/ECCM gear.
There are a lot more upgrades once I add the AEH stuff. IR passive should be more obvious too.
This boat left the dock a long time ago but still deserves to be pointed out. Active sensors for vehicles are going to be more land-based, or something along the same lines. Most systems are going to be very-short ranged to reflect their operating environment, and defenses would be along the lines of active point defense systems, some jamming and smoke/IR. I think vehicle systems need to have more limited use to reflect that most cannot spam flares or smoke infinitely. They are definitely going to be limited usage unless the system is energy-based.
As I said, I have been reading a lot about radars, EW etc.
There is an awful lot of capability that isn't advertised...
Once I get the sensor rules for space sorted then I will tackle vehicles, unless Gier beets me to it with his new Vehicle book.

I don't get why T2300 sensors from TL8 to TL12 should be so different to the CRB/HG - there is no secret space magic tech involved with EMS phased array transmitter/reciever and data processing. The esoteric stuff comes in when you start introducing neutrino sensors smaller than a sports stadium, gravitics detectors etc.
 
I think 2300 put a lot more thought into sensors and AEH was less concerned with simplicity than HG. Without putting nearly as much thought into it as you have, I generally think the 2300 sensor regime is overall better. But I don't think there is any Traveller ship that doesn't use Virtual Aperture Array and has actual telescopes and EMS dishes.

T:NE puts a lot more effort into sensors in FF&S as well. But the baseline mechanics are pretty different, of course.
 
Hence the DM becomes less negative as basic sensor TL increases, there will also be a range increase gut that will come later.

Military only, or particularly Solomani paramilitary...

There are a lot more upgrades once I add the AEH stuff. IR passive should be more obvious too.

As I said, I have been reading a lot about radars, EW etc.
There is an awful lot of capability that isn't advertised...
Once I get the sensor rules for space sorted then I will tackle vehicles, unless Gier beets me to it with his new Vehicle book.

I don't get why T2300 sensors from TL8 to TL12 should be so different to the CRB/HG - there is no secret space magic tech involved with EMS phased array transmitter/reciever and data processing. The esoteric stuff comes in when you start introducing neutrino sensors smaller than a sports stadium, gravitics detectors etc.
A lot depends on the type of radar you have. There's a very wide range of radar types, capabilities, uses, etc. Some are basic and can only do 1-2 functions while others can more. Civilian ones give you basic data, military ones can give you data necessary for targeting rather than just observation/identification.

It should be more than simply a - dice modifier. The radar on a 777 jet is never going to be good enough to give you active target acquisition because it is simply not capable of doing so. Just like a mil-spec radar system is not capable of jamming because it's a target system. In theory these various sub-systems could be combined (or kept as distinct subsystems and simply assumed to be amalgamated into 'standard' equipment at a TL), but I think that's not how it would really work. A ship could easily mount all the necessary sensor systems - but I'd ask why a civilian ship would care for anything but the most basic sensors to avoid running into objects since cost plays a factor in everything. Plus keeping them distinct differentiates ships and gives players a reason to upgrade their ship and to take advantage of those ships that do not have them. Just because the tech exists doesn't mean everyone should, our would, have it.
 
I am aware of all that. By the way you may want to take a look at what the "radar" on the F-35 is actually capable of... at least the stuff we are allowed to know about.

Hence the necessity for a distinction between civilian and military, especially with regards to targeting solutions.

Civilian ships are going to have "basic", "civilian" with options for other sensor types that are logically availabkle to a TL15 civilian ship.
The issue is that civilian ships can carry weapons and launch missiles, not to mention running ECM. So that means fire control has to include some sort of targeting resolution, and the computer has to be capable of running some sort of targetting and ECM.

Military ships specialise in this stuff, not to mention dedicated EW packages and much better target resolution.

The parameters I have so far are

TL - range - DM - power - tonnage - cost

systems - lidar, radar, active EM, passive IR/EM, visual, jammers,

I am after supplementing the core rules, tying them in with AEH, and adding a few more options without actually re-writing the core rules. Like I said, it may make it to a JTAS article submission, or it may just be a forum musing.
 
A lot depends on the type of radar you have. There's a very wide range of radar types, capabilities, uses, etc. Some are basic and can only do 1-2 functions while others can more. Civilian ones give you basic data, military ones can give you data necessary for targeting rather than just observation/identification.

It should be more than simply a - dice modifier. The radar on a 777 jet is never going to be good enough to give you active target acquisition because it is simply not capable of doing so. Just like a mil-spec radar system is not capable of jamming because it's a target system. In theory these various sub-systems could be combined (or kept as distinct subsystems and simply assumed to be amalgamated into 'standard' equipment at a TL), but I think that's not how it would really work. A ship could easily mount all the necessary sensor systems - but I'd ask why a civilian ship would care for anything but the most basic sensors to avoid running into objects since cost plays a factor in everything. Plus keeping them distinct differentiates ships and gives players a reason to upgrade their ship and to take advantage of those ships that do not have them. Just because the tech exists doesn't mean everyone should, our would, have it.
I would like to see a simple system for sensors. All ships get "basic sensors" these are enough to navigate, do some docking, etc. Anything more than that should be simple add-ons that use Power, Space (dtons or whatever), and Bandwidth. Keep the bonus TL vs TL, but make it only applicable to Sensor checks, not for a bonus to hit. That should cover basically everything you are describing.

Edit: For Mil-spec sensors, allow the bonus to apply to targeting as well. That should keep the balance where it should be for warship vs merchant ship without adding more complexity.

Edit of My Edit: Basically no sensors are strictly military. Make Mil-Spec a modifier to the individual sensor add-ons. That way you have one sensor listing but it can be used two ways depending if you bought the commercial version or the Mil-Spec version. For Mil-Spec sensors and sensor components, I would say at minimum, double the Space, double the Power, double the Bandwidth, and x10 on the price. That is just off the top of My head though.
 
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I suspect that sensors need their own specific arrays.

Though I suppose you could have multi functional/purpose arrays.
 
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