Sensor Options

Sigtrygg

Emperor Mongoose
How effective are TL15 basic sensors? Yet another deficiency in Vehicles and High Guard, or could the TL stage effects be used on sensors too...


Sensor TLsuiteDMpower Tons Cost
basic8Lidar, Radar-40--
civilian9Lidar, Radar-211MCr3
basic nav*9Radar/Lidar, Passive EM, Visual-251
minimal*10Radar, Lidar, Visual-41-
military10Jammers, Lidar, Radar022MCr4.1
basic mil*11Radar/Lidar, Passive EM, Visual, Jammers0102
adv mil*12Radar/Lidar, Passive EM, Visual, Jammers+1203
v adv mil*12Radar/Lidar, Passive EM, Visual, Jammers+1305
improved12Densitometer, Jammers, Lidar, Radar+143MCr4.3
advanced15Densitometer, Jammers, Lidar, Neural Activity Sensor, Radar+265MCr5.3

* T2300 AEH sensor systems

For each TL above base pick any combination of the following, some may be taken multiple times
reduced tonnage - reduce sensor tonnage by 1 (maximum reduction 3t)
efficient - reduce power by 1 (maximum power reduction 3)
high resolution - increase DM by 1 (maximum DM addition of 3 up to a maximum DM of 0)

Note - a power rating of (0) means the sensors may be used passively.

If you want a better sensor that is a higher TL than your base then you have to take a disadvantage, up to a maximum of 3. Each disadvantage increases the cost by 50%

increased tonnage - increase sensor tonnage by 1 (maximum increase 3t)
inefficient - increase power by 1 (maximum power increase 3)
low resolution resolution - increase DM by 1 (maximum DM reduction of 3)

eg basic sensor
TL9 DM-3, TL10 DM -2, TL11 DM -1

eg TL8 "civilian rated" sensor has 3 options
DM -2, power 1, tons 2
DM -2, power 2, tons 1
DM -3, power 1, tons 1

eg TL8 "military rated" has 2 disadvantages.

TL9 can have "military" with 1 disadvantage, or improved with 3 disadvantages.
 
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If I had a bunch of technological level fourteen fighters, with basic (technological level fourteen) sensors, once my industrial base has access to technological level fifteen, I'd want to upgrade the electronics to technological level fifteen.

Or, if for some reason I find it more convenient to build technological level twelve based spacecraft, but have access to a technological level fifteen industrial base, I might want to install technological level fifteen basic sensors.
 
For the first, minor refit.

For the second, same as any other component. You might want to build a TL 12 ship, but want to use TL15 fusion power plant. You have to make a choice.

I don't see what would be difficult about either of these? We do them with other things already.
 
If you want a better sensor that is a higher TL than your base then you have to take a disadvantage, up to a maximum of 3

increased tonnage - reduce sensor tonnage by 1 (maximum increase 3t)
inefficient - reduce power by 1 (maximum power increase 3)
low resolution resolution - decrease DM by 1 (maximum DM reduction of 3)

eg TL8 "military rated" has 2 disadvantages.

TL9 can have "military" with 1 disadvantage, or improved with 3 disadvantages.

The only thing I'd add is that if you take a sensor with disadvantage, you don't get the extra suite details from higher than the TL you're doing.

So the TL 8 and 9 military sensors wouldn't come with jammers.
 
There are still some balancing issues. but the next step it to designate active and passive as well as the sensor package, and to tie in all the sensor options in HG.

Once all the bugs are worked out then I will take a look at the use of sensors and see if anything needs tweaking.

The aim is to have an active DM, passive DM and jammer DM (this may sound familiar). Also capital ships can have multiple sensor systems and sensor operators...
 
Basic costs nothing, times one hundred ten percent, is still nothing.

If you do Mongosize it, then you can utilize the customization tool, and figure out how much each advantage will cost you, and what you have to give up for a budget or prototype model.

Personally, I'd like to select exactly what sensor I'm installing, though a package deal, could be cheaper.
 
Umm, that's what this does, it gives you a basic sensor package that improves with TL from 8 to 11, or allows you to build more sensitive sensors but at a cost of disadvantages.
eg a TL12 advanced sensor would be one of these three options:
DM +2, power 6, tons 8
DM +2, power 7, tons 7
DM +2, power 8, tons 5

A TL14 sensor system could be
military DM 0, power 1, tons 0
military DM 0, power 0, tons 1 (passive)
improved DM +1, power 3, tons 2
improved DM +1, power 2, tons 3
improved DM +1, power 4, tons 1
advanced DM +2, power 6, tons 6
advanced DM +2, power 7, tons 5
 
How effective are TL15 basic sensors? Yet another deficiency in Vehicles and High Guard, or could the TL stage effects be used on sensors too...


Sensor TLsuiteDMpower Tons Cost
basic8Lidar, Radar-40--
civilian9Lidar, Radar-211MCr3
military10Jammers, Lidar, Radar022MCr4.1
improved12Densitometer, Jammers, Lidar, Radar+143MCr4.3
advanced15Densitometer, Jammers, Lidar, Neural Activity
Sensor, Radar
+265MCr5.3

For each TL above base pick any combination of the following, some may be taken multiple times
reduced tonnage - reduce sensor tonnage by 1 (maximum reduction 3t)
efficient - reduce power by 1 (maximum power reduction 3)
high resolution - increase DM by 1 (maximum DM addition of 3 up to a maximum DM of 0)

Note - a power rating of (-) means the sensors may be used passively.

If you want a better sensor that is a higher TL than your base then you have to take a disadvantage, up to a maximum of 3. Each disadvantage increases the cost by 50%

increased tonnage - reduce sensor tonnage by 1 (maximum increase 3t)
inefficient - reduce power by 1 (maximum power increase 3)
low resolution resolution - decrease DM by 1 (maximum DM reduction of 3)

eg basic sensor
TL9 DM-3, TL10 DM -2, TL11 DM -1

eg TL8 "civilian rated" sensor has 3 options
DM -2, power 1, tons 2
DM -2, power 2, tons 1
DM -3, power 1, tons 1

eg TL8 "military rated" has 2 disadvantages.

TL9 can have "military" with 1 disadvantage, or improved with 3 disadvantages.
My take is it gets increased range.
 
My question is this. Sensors get a bonus based on TL of the sensor versus TL of the target. So why not just make all of the different things, Jammer, NAS, LIDAR that you get with the different levels of sensor, (Civilian, Basic, Advanced, whatever.) as added capabilities and just leave the "effectiveness" of those sensors tied to their TL?

Edit: Although I agree with needing Active, Passive, and Jamming numbers as well.
 
Sensors are usually based on power output, and sensitivity.

Though trying that probably just overcomplicates game play.
 
My question is this. Sensors get a bonus based on TL of the sensor versus TL of the target. So why not just make all of the different things, Jammer, NAS, LIDAR that you get with the different levels of sensor, (Civilian, Basic, Advanced, whatever.) as added capabilities and just leave the "effectiveness" of those sensors tied to their TL?

Edit: Although I agree with needing Active, Passive, and Jamming numbers as well.
If I understand your question I'll give an opinion that might answer your call. If you introduce active technology into electronics/sensor sub-systems, then measurables such as dynamic linearity becomes more controllable with increasing tech levels. That is amazingly detailed for a game, so a 'tech level tier' data table probably works best to capture the sci-fi theme without giving players and referees head damage trying to understand the rules.
 
I'm after maybe writing a future JTAS article on sensors - I want to start with the rules as they exist, add stage effects that exist for other technologies, and consider TL effects. There are also the various sensor add on to be found in HG, and then there is the AEH to consider.

As I said earlier on the ship sheet itself will be three number as per T4

A (active) J (jammer) P(passive)

at the moment I am looking at two numbers, one for range and one for DM

TL 14 A 4 +2, J 4 +2, P 2 0

that sort of thing.

I am reading quite a lot about EW at the moment, some of it is truly scary.
 
My take is Basic sensors are just that. Basic.
They are free and you get what you pay for.
You want something other than collision avoidance? Spend some credits.
I agree with Jame Rowe on the TL advance for Basic, you cannot reduce the cost of free and you cannot reduce the mass of nothing, so increase the effective range, but leave the stats alone.
 
If I understand your question I'll give an opinion that might answer your call. If you introduce active technology into electronics/sensor sub-systems, then measurables such as dynamic linearity becomes more controllable with increasing tech levels. That is amazingly detailed for a game, so a 'tech level tier' data table probably works best to capture the sci-fi theme without giving players and referees head damage trying to understand the rules.
I am not sure I am understanding you or maybe you not understanding Me. I am now more confused than when I started. lol

What I mean is that sensor function should be a straight measure of TL. Pay for the component (Radar, lidar, NAS, thermal, UV, X-ray, etc. That component gives you that capability at the TL you bought it at. This allows for custom sensors, but with a very simple, game-friendly system. If you use "Passive" as the default setting, then give a bonus when the sensors are used actively. (Note: Not all sensors have an "active" setting)
 
I am not sure I am understanding you or maybe you not understanding Me. ...

What I mean is that sensor function should be a straight measure of TL. Pay for the component (Radar, lidar, NAS, thermal, UV, X-ray, etc. That component gives you that capability at the TL you bought it at. This allows for custom sensors, but with a very simple, game-friendly system. If you use "Passive" as the default setting, then give a bonus when the sensors are used actively. (Note: Not all sensors have an "active" setting)
Okay, I wasn't expecting you to have understood me since you were replying to someone else. I just commented out of passing interest.

Yes, the basic sensors can be installed the way you wish, as indicated from your quote. That reflects reality where most non-tech savvy people prefer a cheaper "no frills" solution.

For the rich Traveller or tech-savvy Traveller, the CRB provides an upgrade path, and that upgrade path is explainable through current science and technology, according to a similar reasoning found in my reply. In other words, the CRB Install Sensor table makes technological sense (which is what I originally thought you were querying). Whether the table's values should be tweaked or not is maybe another question.
 
My take is Basic sensors are just that. Basic.
They are free and you get what you pay for.
You want something other than collision avoidance? Spend some credits.
I agree with Jame Rowe on the TL advance for Basic, you cannot reduce the cost of free and you cannot reduce the mass of nothing, so increase the effective range, but leave the stats alone.
Which is why the only thing that changes for TL is the DM of the basic sensors, they remain free, tonnage and power free, and absolutely useless for targeting.
 
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