Need some help in a forthcoming battle, please

[G´berg]

Hi. I´m a greenie Narn player and I must face a difficult situation, so I come before you deep wells of wisdom in search for some help...

My main force, formed by 12 ships including a Bin´Tak (with G´sten aboard), two G´Quan, a Dag´kar and some support ships like Thentus, etc is commited to a battle in the Supply Ships scenario from Sfos against a centauri larger force including a Octurion, 2 Primus and several more support ships.

The problem is I must deploy first in the centre and he can deploy wherever round the table after seeing my choice. Can some advice be given about how can I do to fight face to face as soon as posible?
If he comes from my rear, with superior firepower and a faster and more agile fleet I´m lost, so I´m trying to find a way to deploy so that, wherever he comes, I can face him...
any ideas, please?

With all due respect I ask...

 

[Alexb83]

Hmm. This bears thinking about - you have G'sten, (I'm trying to remember what he gives you - but I think it's higher CQ and also an extra special action for his ship every turn?). You might consider this:

Squadron your larger ships with the Bin'Tak. They'll use his CQ for any special action rolls (if I remember the squadron rules correctly). This will give you a better chance of rolling off for 'come about' special actions you may need to turn around quickly. You can break the squadron up at any time for shooting purposes (since normally a squadron would all shoot at the same thing). Mind you, having a couple of G'quan and a Bin'tak shooting at one target isn't a bad thing necessarily.

With the bin'tak, if you do get a second special action you could start with: all stop, along with 'all stop and pivot' allowing you to simply turn (I don't think you can combine all stop with come about, though I may be wrong) next turn you could combine all stop and pivot with come about, and so on, giving your Bin'tak a 90 degree turn on the spot.

On the other hand, rather than sitting still you may wish to pile on as much speed as you can, to break out of the initial deployment box.

 

[Lorcan Nagle]

all stop and pivot gives you a 360 degree turn so you don't need to combine it with come about, but either order is certianly the way to go. the other thing that might help is to deploy your shops in a wheel formation, with your large craft at the cardinal points. advance the segment that faces the enemy slowly while attempting come about/all stop+all stop and pivot orders on the others. just don't let your leading element get too far ahead lest they get ganked bad.

 

[Locutus9956]

Its worth noting that if you all stop and pivot you cannot fire though. To be honest though youre in for one HELL of a hard fight there, at that size the centauri have so much long ranged firepower youre going to have a nightmare of a time keeping those convoy ships alive .

If this is a campaign game Id seriously consider disengaging personally, probably not the advice you were hoping for but there it is nonetheless

 

[Lord David the Denied]

Those who know when to fight and when not to fight are victorious.

 

[Locutus9956]

or to use a more modern version:

"He who turns and runs away, lives to fight another day"

 

[Lord David the Denied]

I believe that line is attributed to Sun Tzu as well...

 

[Lorcan Nagle]

Its worth noting that if you all stop and pivot you cannot fire though.

this is true, but it's one - two turns of no fire balanced against maybe getting fire out while trying come about rolls, and if you're playing Narn you've not got much long range fire in your side arcs anyway, so you may as well pivot and come bearing in like the hounds of hell. - Preferably while your civvy ships run the opposite direction

To be honest though youre in for one HELL of a hard fight there, at that size the centauri have so much long ranged firepower youre going to have a nightmare of a time keeping those convoy ships alive .

I'd have to take a look at my copy of SFOS again, but don't the defenders have some level of advantage in terms of FAP in the scenario?

 

[G´berg]

Well i´ve heard another version goes like this:

"That who turnes and runs away lives to flee again another day"

attributed to Brett Maverick.

I´ve seen a good point in Alexb83´s advice, for it´s a good idea to make a squadron with my slower ships and come about...

I can combine it with the "wheel formation" suggested by Lorcan...

The advice about leaving is probably the wisest but hey I´m a Narn player...
...and he´s a Centauri player.

I´d rather lose my entire fleet than hearing
his chatting for months. I´ll try to stay and take as many as I can with me... :x :evil: :twisted:

Edited: the only advantage is the presence of civships he must shoot distracting some fire in the process.

Thank you all anyway. I still would apreciate any other suggestions.

 

[Burger]

How about putting all your ships in a circle, facing inwards? Then at least some will be facing him, wheverer he deploys, and the others will have plenty of room to turn around.

Generally I'd forget about the civvy ships. Count up the VP's he gets for destroying them, its usually not much. If he fires at them, hey he's not firing at you so be grateful

 

[Locutus9956]

also dont forget the civies can be used to 'maneuver to shield' your warships..... it may not sound much and isnt a very 'nice' tactic and probably not one the narns would really do (sounds more of a Centauri or Dilgar idea to me, using civillians as shields ) but it could be rather nasty

 

[WickedE]

ANother modern term to think about:
"Ours is not to reason why, but to blow this joint before we die!"

That's gonna be a hard fight. He'll probably aim for your supply ships, which will pop quick, and then go for you.

 

[Nomad]

I'd read the Gravity Well rule carefully - it will allow you to increase your turn rate, while declaring CAF! at the same time. How big is the planet you set up around? If you can get away with it (haven't got SFoS to hand) use a small moon, to maximise your turn rate. You can also "All Stop" without using a Special Action, so long as you don't leave the Well.

If you're playing Armageddon rules, take as many Frazis as you can - you can suppress Centauri fighters with Emines, and the Frazis then cannot be stopped before they attack (do I smell cheese?).

Pay close attention to the victory conditions, too - sometimes, they're suprising. Do you need to save the transports? Can you win by killing one or two of his ships and then running for it? (I don't know, those are just suggestions).

Good Luck!

 

[Locutus9956]

oh but they can... it may not be as easy to stop the before they attack now but they wont be able to get into firing range on turn one... you may have to use some of your longer range weapons on them but frazis arent the hardest fighters to kill with non AF weapons out there of course. Of course if hes shooting at frazis with his big guns theyre not targetting the rest of your fleet....

 

[Alexb83]

Hmm, all good points - if you're in the gravity well, you can freely start on the first turn with all stop, leaving you with SAs to play around with on your ships (such as pivot if necessary, or run silent).

My bad about G'sten, no second Special Actions, however the free rerolls for CQ, +2 initiative, and at war level you get a few extra reroll dice, too. Also, I guess you'll have to make do with CQ4, so perhaps run silent isn't likely to come off all that often.

What I hadn't noticed is that you also get a free 6" move in any direction with all your ships after you're both set up - this could be quite handy for trumping his deployment (you can move the civilian ships and your own away from his, or closer in if you wish).

I don't know if you would get the re-roll for CQ on ships in a squadron with the Bin'Tak, but you might...

Ionic bursts on one or two ships' energy mine launchers might be cool, too. He may well be trying to CAF on your big ships using his beams, but you can get around that if you can land a few ionic mines on him.

 

[Nomad]

Of course if hes shooting at frazis with his big guns theyre not targetting the rest of your fleet....

Bonus.

And since your fighters move after his ships, move to just outside Twin Array range (8"). With a Frazi move of (8 or 9"? can't recall), the only way he could stay out of range of some of the frazis next time is with an 'All Stop' SA - so no CAF!s for him.

 

[lastbesthope]

With the bin'tak, if you do get a second special action you could start with: all stop, along with 'all stop and pivot' allowing you to simply turn (I don't think you can combine all stop with come about, though I may be wrong) next turn you could combine all stop and pivot with come about, and so on, giving your Bin'tak a 90 degree turn on the spot.

Alex, you're right in that you can't combine All Stop! with Come About! All stop says you can't make any turns.

Also G'Sten doesn't allow 2 SAs (just checked), IIRC, only Sheridan does that.

Even if you can do 2 SAs in one turn, you can't do All Stop in the same turn as All Stop and Pivot! the text for All Stop & Pivot! states:

So long as the ship used the All Stop! Special Action in it's last turn, you may use All Stop & Pivot! in it's current turn.

So you can't do All Stop! and All Stop & Pivot! in the same turn.

LBH

 

[Commador Q]

depending on your oponent, you could try deploying your civi ship on one end of the deployment zone, with the majority of your warships pointing towards the civis on the oposit end of the deployment zone.

it's a gamble, but your oponent may (depending on his personal goals for the battle) choose top deploy the majority of his fleet as close to the civis (and therefore in fron of the warships) as he can.

otherwise i have to agree, that a version of the wheel, and frequent use of Come About! and gravity well tricks are your best bet.

 

[LaranosTZ]

My advice follows a lot of what some of the others here have said, but with a slight variation. If you stay in a gravity well you can do any action that requires you to go straight, and still turn along the gravity well, or you can add another turn.

So my advice is to start in the 'cardinal points' formation, as suggested above, but rather then face inwards, or outwards from the planet...start facing -perpendicular- to the planet. This means, in your first turn, (since you get one free move...does that include firing?) you can circle your ships around the planet to face whatever direction your centauri enemy decides to strike you. The far side ships can even APTE if necessary to get the extra boost of speed to get all the way around. Or, if your first 'free' turn also includes shooting, you can line up CAFed boresight shots with many of your ships as they come around the planet. Come to think of it even if your first turn doesn't include shooting, you can simply choose not to come around all the way so that the following turn you can line up those boresights.

The centauri may try to keep distance with you in order to maximize their beamy goodness and stay out of range of your more effective ships, if so pummel them with emines and and such, and make sure to include at least a couple of ships loaded with Ionic Burst emines to help disrupt all the CAF the Centauri will attempt to do to you.

The other thing to consider is how important this particular target is to you in the long-term of the campaign. As one of my opponents in our vassal campaign discovered, taking a target is somewhat of a bitter fruit if you lose the majority of your fleet doing it. In my game, I lost two ships to his 5, to me that's a fantastic loss ratio, and even though I didn't hold the system, he is going to hurt for quite a while in the long-term of the campaign as he is going to take a lot longer to replenish those losses.

 

[Alexb83]

It's a war level game, too - so you have 5 chances to force him to reroll dice (or reroll yourself if you want to). I'd use this to disrupt any successful SAs he makes, assuming you haven't used ionic burst to cripple him. (means not much chance of CAF! against you).

Your net initiative is +4, which is a nice bonus, so you stand a reasonable chance of forcing him to move. I'd be careful about forming a squadron in this case - I was wrong when I said that G'sten gave you +1 CQ, I think, so there's not much advantage to it.

Deploy well and take advantage of G'stens special deployment rule. And like Burger suggests, face inwards around the planet, and you'll get all round coverage.