My House Rule - Shooting At Starships

[Solomani666]

Only DD weapons are powerful enough to damage starships.

The only anomily I can find for this would be the AEROSPACE DEFENCE LASER (CSC p128)
In this case I might allow 2 or more of the weapons to combine their fire to make a 1DD attack.

Note: In the CSC some weapons are considered DD when firing certain types of ammo. (p138)

 

[-Daniel-]

Only DD weapons are powerful enough to damage starships.

The only anomily I can find for this would be the AEROSPACE DEFENCE LASER (CSC p128)
In this case I might allow 2 or more of the weapons to combine their fire to make a 1DD attack.

Note: In the CSC some weapons are considered DD when firing certain types of ammo. (p138)

Not sure why, but that red was hard to read. Must be the machine I am on.

Anyway, on topic, I can't see any real objections to this. Does starships cover small craft as well in your house-rule?

 

[AnotherDilbert]

I would consider it a bit strong for general adoption.

An Anti-Materiel Rifle (5D), a Light auto-cannon (6D), or even a Machine-gun with APDSDU munitions should be able to do damage.

But your game, your rules, of course.

 

[phavoc]

What about a shoulder-launched anti-armor missile?

The problem here is that the rules don't scale well with real-world rules. Starships gotta have magical armor to be able to withstand micrometorite impacts at high velocity. And most civilian ships don't carry any armor worth a damn, thus a military grade weapons should easily penetrate the hull.

In the real world, pretty much any steel-hulled vessel shrugs off small arms fire. But when you get into the heavier rounds, LMG's and on up, they start punching holes in the armor. Same goes for APC's.

Traveller weapons don't really follow the same scale. Part of that is the system, part of that is that it's a game and not a simulation, and part of it is that the tech radically changes the paradigm when you get into some of these weapons.

 

[Solomani666]

In the real world, pretty much any steel-hulled vessel shrugs off small arms fire. But when you get into the heavier rounds, LMG's and on up, they start punching holes in the armor. Same goes for APC's.

Yes, except we are not talking about steel here, we are talking bonded superdense.

 

[Solomani666]

I would consider it a bit strong for general adoption.

An Anti-Materiel Rifle (5D), a Light auto-cannon (6D), or even a Machine-gun with APDSDU munitions should be able to do damage.

But your game, your rules, of course.

Everything you mentioned can't even penetrate a Striker APC let alone an M1 tank.
So yes, I think the DD rule makes sense.

 

[alex_greene]

Okay, Solomani666, I explained in private messages but it now needs to be aired in public.

No red text. Red text is for mods only, and only then if it's mod business.

Any text colour where the R component of the RGB value predominates, whether it's #FF0000, #FF0088 or anything similar, is mod text. Go back to using plain black or any other colour than a shade of red, please.

 

[Solomani666]

Okay, Solomani666, I explained in private messages but it now needs to be aired in public.

No red text. Red text is for mods only, and only then if it's mod business.

Any text colour where the R component of the RGB value predominates, whether it's #FF0000, #FF0088 or anything similar, is mod text. Go back to using plain black or any other colour than a shade of red, please.

I only just read your message.

 

[alex_greene]

Fair enough. Everybody, please carry on. Nothing more to see here.

 

[AnotherDilbert]

Everything you mentioned can't even penetrate a Striker APC let alone an M1 tank.
So yes, I think the DD rule makes sense.

You are right. I checked CT Striker, starships were tougher than I remembered. An "unarmoured" starship has striker armour 60 corresponding to 190 cm hard steel or around five times the maximum armour of a WWII battleship.

In Striker no handheld weapon can penetrate that. We would need a large caliber, high tech tank gun to have a chance of penetrating.


Later editions have considered starships much less armoured.

 

[-Daniel-]

I only just read your message.

The Blue is much easier to read.


Back on topic: The more I think about this, the more I realize how twisted this can become. You don't want a 300 ton ship knocked out by a .22 and you also don't want to have starships that an take anything fire wise forever either.

 

[wbnc]

I only just read your message.

The Blue is much easier to read.


Back on topic: The more I think about this, the more I realize how twisted this can become. You don't want a 300 ton ship knocked out by a .22 and you also don't want to have starships that an take anything fire wise forever either.

I'd say the odds of actually hurting a starship in a meaningful way with light small arms is slim. Mostly due to the fact the ship can get out of engagement range so quickly in 10 seconds accelerating at 1G it will be around 170-180 Meters away.In thirty seconds it will be 4 kilometers away...if it is accelerating in the verticle it will be well out of range for most small arms in short order.

maximum range for a .50 cal is around 6-7 Km..and that's not if fired straight up....

if you hit a starship with a .50caliber rifle it would probably not inflict enough damage to even affect any major systems....a 3d laser pistol can only inflict superficial damage at best...however once the ship is say 10 Km up..it can turn it's guns on a ground target and flatten a small building with it's weapons.

So yeah you can do a tiny bit of damage o a starshi with handheld weapons but unless you are shooting at an unarmored small craft odds of doing more than irritating the crew is extremely unlikely. On the other hand, a gunner manning a basic beam laser can vaporize you with no trouble at all.

And if that ship is armed with a missile...heaven help the shooter, anyone standing next to him, and on the city block that is about to get hit with a very serious amount of high explosive ordnance.

unless you are in battle dress with a very heavy man-portable weapon, and a few friends in similar kit..... leave killing starships to other starships.

 

[Infojunky]

I checked CT Striker, starships were tougher than I remembered. An "unarmoured" starship has striker armour 60 corresponding to 190 cm hard steel or around five times the maximum armour of a WWII battleship..

Check your errata, the number is 40, but everything else is the same....

 

[phavoc]

In the real world, pretty much any steel-hulled vessel shrugs off small arms fire. But when you get into the heavier rounds, LMG's and on up, they start punching holes in the armor. Same goes for APC's.

Yes, except we are not talking about steel here, we are talking bonded superdense.

Not every ship uses bonded superdense armor. You should never see a civilian ship running around in TL14 bonded superdense armor because it's only purpose is military grade armor. Well, that and PC starships. PC's tend to armor their ships like a warship.

 

[Solomani666]

In the real world, pretty much any steel-hulled vessel shrugs off small arms fire. But when you get into the heavier rounds, LMG's and on up, they start punching holes in the armor. Same goes for APC's.

Yes, except we are not talking about steel here, we are talking bonded superdense.

Not every ship uses bonded superdense armor. You should never see a civilian ship running around in TL14 bonded superdense armor because it's only purpose is military grade armor. Well, that and PC starships. PC's tend to armor their ships like a warship.

OK, so Crystaliron then.

 

[-Daniel-]

I'd say the odds of actually hurting a starship in a meaningful way with light small arms is slim.

I would agree with you. Any system that mad it easy to do so would be too silly for me to play.

... unless you are in battle dress with a very heavy man-portable weapon, and a few friends in similar kit..... leave killing starships to other starships.

Starships and Starfighters. :wink:

 

[wbnc]

I'd say the odds of actually hurting a starship in a meaningful way with light small arms is slim.

I would agree with you. Any system that mad it easy to do so would be too silly for me to play.

... unless you are in battle dress with a very heavy man-portable weapon, and a few friends in similar kit..... leave killing starships to other starships.

Starships and Starfighters. :wink:

Those too

 

[Condottiere]

Nickel iron, appears to be a viable alternative, and possibly aluminium.

 

[AnotherDilbert]

Check your errata, the number is 40, but everything else is the same....

Thanks, 40 it is, just like MT.

So, 333 mm hard steel, about the same as the max on a WWII battleship or half the max on a current tank?

 

[AnotherDilbert]

I'd say the odds of actually hurting a starship in a meaningful way with light small arms is slim. Mostly due to the fact the ship can get out of engagement range so quickly in 10 seconds accelerating at 1G it will be around 170-180 Meters away.In thirty seconds it will be 4 kilometers away...if it is accelerating in the verticle it will be well out of range for most small arms in short order.

Of course a flying starship would be difficult to hit, and out of range before you could blink.

Any scenario with infantry weapons firing on a starship has to be against a stationary, landed starship?