Mongoose We Want 2E Counters.

[wkehrman]

I know it may not be terribly popular with some folks but I'd like to see the counters combine well with the remaining figures, thus the round counters with not too much information, but nice presentation of the ships.

I like the pip ideas to mark the for main arcs and a front and back pip for front and rear bore/facing marks (make the front one slightly different, say carrot instead of dot).

I'd rather not see the counters all colors, while very easy to see and distiguish sides, it detracts from the space vista thingie.

PDF would be okay, but would also like to see maybe real counters. Should be easy to do both right?

Ripple

Mongoose should take note. Ripple and I are in agreement on almost all of this, though I'm not quite sure what is meant by "rather not see the counters all colors". I would like to see some color on the counter, though this can get quite overpowering and destroy the aesthetic of the counter. A color image of the ship and a color background of stars, but leave the indicators of arcs, facings, etc. one, muted color. I think this is what Ripple is saying as well.

 

[Chernobyl]

The color of the arcs on my counter serves two purposes; arcs and priority color (same as the color system on my cards.) Red in this case for War PL ship.

I've left the center dot on the ship as the measuring point, and it is in the center of the counter for arcs as well.

Lines or no lines, I don't care either way, but I agree that it messes up the ship detail on many pictures.

Chern

 

[silashand]

http://www.gf9.com/store/product_info.php?cPath=35&products_id=333

piece of hard plastic with the printing on one side, showing up through the plastic, and a black felt backing. I think silashand has a set, I know he's seen a set. This may be what he's talking about. I don't know if more than two colors can be used, or what upper limit exists on size.

Exactly what I was thinking of. As for how many colors, what sizes, etc. GF9 will custom make them for you in whatever size/style you ask for. I can only imagine Mongoose could license them to make such counters as they have for the special action tokens, etc. that they already make.

Cheers, Gary

 

[darklord4]

GF9 will custom make them for you in whatever size/style you ask for. I can only imagine Mongoose could license them to make such counters as they have for the special action tokens, etc. that they already make.

The difference there is that the order tokens don't have any ship likeness on them. MGP has said they cannot let IWM cast the ships due to licensing, so I don't see how letting GF9 use ship likenesses is any different. Though they did get the 1ED and SFOS counters printed somewhere else as I think those predated their inhouse printing. I wonder how is printing a ship likeness different than casting a ship mold? Does the license actually restricts art mediums :?::!: Managing a license like that must be a huge headache.

 

[BuShips]

Lines or no lines, I don't care either way, but I agree that it messes up the ship detail on many pictures.
Chern

I agree. One option is to drop any sighting lines under the ship graphic (a compromise) or just go with the edge marks and leave the center of the counter for the ship graphic and center point. You would only need to grab a straight edge for when the target is close to an arc border. Then it's just a matter of lining up the marks opposite of the center point and running a line out. I'm mentioning using both marks because of the increase of accuracy than if only running the straight edge from the center outward.

Yet another tweak to this is to still place edge marks (without lines), but create a much larger transparent key that does have sighting lines. Then the counter edge marks are used as registration tools for the key, which is held over the ship. This part doesn't need to be officially included, but is an option for some players to think about. Litko or GF9 could make these if they were desired officially. GF9 has done past official token sets for CTA as most here know (in the US at least).

 

[ShopKeepJon]

Chernobyl,

I like the basic design, but the ship is being overwhelmed by the other graphic elements of the counter. Have you considered just outlining the area that you currently have blocked out in red?

ShopKeepJon

 

[ShopKeepJon]

I agree. One option is to drop any sighting lines under the ship graphic (a compromise) or just go with the edge marks and leave the center of the counter for the ship graphic and center point. You would only need to grab a straight edge for when the target is close to an arc border. Then it's just a matter of lining up the marks opposite of the center point and running a line out. I'm mentioning using both marks because of the increase of accuracy than if only running the straight edge from the center outward.

Another option that would work is to include the sight lines, but to have them stop just short of the ship. This would keep the ship graphic clean, but would allow easy visual referencing.

ShopKeepJon

 

[BuShips]

This is a bit of a compromise between the "circle" faction and the "box/rectangle" faction. :wink:

The graphics are intended to be in proportion to the Mongoose miniatures that many may have currently. This way, the "ships" can be played alongside of a partial collection of the metal versions. Ruleswise, the circle would be whatever Mongoose decides the diameter should be for a particular ship. This might even solve some questions about how many breaching pods/suicide fighters can fit on a base by having standardized "bases" for the counters. With the models, there were some who were rebasing for added model stability. With this new direction, model weight isn't an issue, is it? :wink:

Those that had the old "fleet scale" ships would need to resize the images down for use but that could also work for those players. I'm just popping out ideas to contribute to the general welfare of the player base. Mongoose can do what they think is best.

Here is a sample of a plan view, used "full size":
The side arcs can even be trimmed off if not wanted. Others could mount reinforced counters onto metal or plastic flying bases if they wished.
For those ships that would overhang and mask the weapon/turn marks, clear flying bases could even be placed on top of the counter. This would be a strange case of the "stand" being on the top and the "model" being on the playing surface. :roll: :idea:

 

[LaranosTZ]

Note, in the absense of 'official' mongoose counters, you can certainly d/l the current Vassal mod, extract the images from that zip file, then cut and paste the images you want into a document and print them out onto whatever stock you'd like.

I've tried it myself, and the resulting counters are fairly close to what you would get, size wise, from the official counters, and well, if you don't like the size of a particular counter, you can stretch or shrink it to fit what you need.

 

[BuShips]

Note, in the absense of 'official' mongoose counters, you can certainly d/l the current Vassal mod, extract the images from that zip file, then cut and paste the images you want into a document and print them out onto whatever stock you'd like.

I've tried it myself, and the resulting counters are fairly close to what you would get, size wise, from the official counters, and well, if you don't like the size of a particular counter, you can stretch or shrink it to fit what you need.

Yes, it is something to tinker with temporarily (thanks!). I made up a Hyperion squadron (in the style just above). In a pinch, they'll fill in until an official counter is provided.

I don't need to post it, as you guys get the idea from my thoughts as well as cherns, etc.

 

[A Lonely Raider]

I love the minis and I have some. But I'm not too happy about all that assembling and painting before playing. I could use easy quality counters, if there were any.

These are my thoughts what counters should be.

1. The counters should be easy, ready to play immediately. No cutting, no assembling.

2.There has to be a clear picture of the ship. The central point marked and and also arcs marked, though no lines on the ship. There has to be something for the identification: number or place for the name of the ship. The simple counters look better than the ones that are filled with all kinds of markings.

3. Counters should be thick enough and not too small or large to move easily during the game. I have some counters from Revised edition and they are too thin.

4.There shouldn't be too many different sizes. Special shapes are nice, but can make counters more expensive to manufacture - more expensive to buy.

5. The material whatever it is should be durable.

6. Counters should be sold as fleets or groups. Like 3rd Age EA, Narns, Raiders and Civilian ships, Smaller Races (Iphsa, Lumati, Technomage, Hurr) or Space stations (including B5, jump gates, planets?).

7. The Price, the amount of counters and the quality should match. If the counters cost as much as minis, no one buys them.

 

[ShopKeepJon]

What I'd like to see is something simple, easy to use, and that would look good on the table. Something like this...

Of course, this is just a rough mock-up...

If ACTA moves to counters, I'd like the counters to be clean enough to be used as bases for ships. If most of the people in a given area are using counters and someone wants to use miniatures, being able to mount the miniatures on the counter would keep everything tidy and balanced...

ShopKeepJon

 

[Da Boss]

Oh yeah thats very nice

 

[Tolwyn]

Very nice

 

[JayRaider]

They should hire you to design more of those.
Printed onto 3mm plastic.

 

[Target]

If the counters looked like that i'd defindnately go for the circle over rectangle.

 

[cthol24601]

Well that would work really well, the round counters, and it would let B5 still work as a paper wargame of the old school kind. Like my old Fasa Starfleet battles which I still play occasionally. No impetus for new rules etc or the like v\but with some slick packaging it could work really well as a board game/avalon Hill style B5 game. be very fun and allow for nice tie in to the RPG and scenario play.

 

[wkehrman]

Looking at the ShopKeep's example has given me an idea. A base in which one can insert, clip, somehow attach the counter thus alleviating the need for high quality paper. The base would have a ring like a diver's watch which could be turned and aligned with the turning arc. The base could be rotated then to match and movement would continue.

Don't know, have to think on that some more. Might be too pricey.

 

[darklord4]

Looking at the ShopKeep's example has given me an idea. A base in which one can insert, clip, somehow attach the counter thus alleviating the need for high quality paper. The base would have a ring like a diver's watch which could be turned and aligned with the turning arc. The base could be rotated then to match and movement would continue.

Don't know, have to think on that some more. Might be too pricey.

You might use something magnetic to 'clamp' the rings together. Maybe a simple disc on the bottom with a magnet friendly center, or maybe the whole disc is magnetic, possibly the GF9 magnetic bases? then a clear styrene cover disc with a little rare earth magnet over where the mini stand would be would hold the whole thing together.

I think an issue with a reusable bezel design is that you have dedicated token space to the arcs etc. Your ship designs then have to fit in the bezel frame. The idea is intriguing, I'll have to see if I can cobble something together for a prototype...

 

[wkehrman]

Looking at the ShopKeep's example has given me an idea. A base in which one can insert, clip, somehow attach the counter thus alleviating the need for high quality paper. The base would have a ring like a diver's watch which could be turned and aligned with the turning arc. The base could be rotated then to match and movement would continue.

Don't know, have to think on that some more. Might be too pricey.

You might use something magnetic to 'clamp' the rings together. Maybe a simple disc on the bottom with a magnet friendly center, or maybe the whole disc is magnetic, possibly the GF9 magnetic bases? then a clear styrene cover disc with a little rare earth magnet over where the mini stand would be would hold the whole thing together.

I think an issue with a reusable bezel design is that you have dedicated token space to the arcs etc. Your ship designs then have to fit in the bezel frame. The idea is intriguing, I'll have to see if I can cobble something together for a prototype...

Setting aside some minor details, I think ShopKeepJon's Hyperion is fine for this bezel system. There is a bit of a margin on the counter.

Alternatively, you could put the arcs on the cover plastic and have some sort of compass point that would turn. Leave the back end of the mount open, put a notch in the front end of the counter and a tab inside the mount. The counter should line up with the tab to keep things properly aligned. Unfortunately, I lack the craftsmanship to make this.